So the gov't loans from the people without there knowledge and then taxes them for the same money? or did I get that wrong?

However evil the banks may be, I agree with Arct1k; I signed the mortgage papers when I "bought" my house, I understand my payments, term, interest, etc. I assumed that responsibility. No one forced me. The big bad bank did not hold a gun to my head. I needed credit because I didn't have 100k sitting in my wallet. What the bank does or doesn't do behind the scenes is, to be blunt, not my concern (uh oh, here comes the flame!). Yeah, I could have paid cash for it by starting out living in a camper, selling for profit, and move up each step of the way until I had that 100k, but I didn't.

As far as the other alleged bank "corruption" goes, I don't know.

Yes, our government continually bends us over with no Vaseline.

Uderstood banks are not all bad. Just my prefferences are to have open books, I know that can cause more havok but it's just how I was bought up. So I have learnt something from Art1c :wink:

With respect, that's the type of defense every drug dealer in the world would like to use..."your honour, I was just satisfying market demand, if the market was demanding it, I wouldn't supply it"

There are morals & ethics required for business & banking is no exception. Lending practices that allow, encourage or result in financial hardship for individuals are morally & ethically corupt

The sub prime debarcle was evidence that bankers can be pigs in swill...this was a f**ck up of monumental proportions, now the world gets to tidy up the greedy bankers mess

The sub prime issue was also heavily pushed by our own government in order to give all people the dream of owning a home (basically another way to appease people for more votes). Problem is all people can't afford a home. There are guilty parties on both sides. I always love the advertisements that say how owning a home is cheaper than renting an apartment. While partially true this fails to factor in taxes, insurance, maintenance/upkeep, and other repairs/unforeseen problems that a home owner is responsible for and a renter is not.

I also think that comparing drug dealers to bankers is a stretch.

A drug dealer is selling something with no real benefit to the end user while a bank is helping someone buy a home which is in no way comparable to a drug. I can personally vouch for this as a former drug addict and current home owner (or mortgage payer). My home and home loan is far more beneficial to me than any drug I ever used was.

Hahaha...OK drug dealer is a bit extreme but the supply & demand example does work

I've been a mortgage broker in a former life & I would never allow a client to enter into financial hardship just because they wanted to. I had a responsibility - morally & ethically to look after the interests of my client & their families...just because Mum & Dad might be greedy doesn't mean that I should ignore the fact they have children or that they may not fully understand all the considerations. If you understand these considerations then you should act appropriately, this was evidently not front of mind during the sub prime & banks/bankers were the vehicle of the GFC

I have a mortgage & credit cards also...I also understand how to use them to my benefit, the majority of people don't & banks capitalise on this fact

That's the difference right there; you have ethics and some people don't...

Those of you that don't think it's the banks fault (Central Bank, IMF, etc, same families owns them), consider they create a infinitely complex system full of gibberish terms and definitions. It's all a distraction and smoke and mirrors for a system that is preferred to be hidden.

Don't blame the people, they don't know anything, the banks count on this fact, that is why they have been going along all powerful for far too long. They are the ones who are in control, the government is just a means for them, puppets.

Whenever someone says something like 90% of the worlds wealth lies with less than 1% of the population. Well, a large chunk of that is owned by a few Jewish families; Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Lazard, Warburg, Schroeder and Schiff.

Sorry to get back on topic, but I just watched a video from CA Republican Tom McClintock that nailed it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDo36xPYgE

Money is the root of everything bad in today's sociaty.

My family have a long history even before money was created. My grand parents used to tell me stories of how wonderful it was for our ancestors. They all had a different market and traded things. After money came along and a few rules with it, things started going really bad. Some of my family members who are still living as Native Brasilian Indians do just fine with out money.

I for one don't have a credit card. I use my Visa debit card(s) or Business Check Card(s) incase I need to buy something online. I do use cash for just about anything and I like to pay in full. If I need to do something that seems a bit risky, then I'll try to get funds elsewhere.

The economy is in the situation now due to money hungry folks thinking they can make a few thousand $$$$ by buying a house and selling it 6 months to a year later, but the mortgage companies and banks sure made it easy. I just hope things get better and we can look back at this drinking a few beers and :rofl:.

Here's an interesting development

http://www.smh.com.au/world/michelle...0521-w13d.html

"Michelle Obama was put in an embarrassing position during a school visit when a seven-year-old girl said her mother was an illegal immigrant and asked if Barack Obama would deport her...."

You are right 100%. I think some of the major issues came when people who want X house and Y mortgage were getting denied. The reaction from the government was that these people were being discriminated against. So in turn regulations were put forth and laws were made to push people into loans who otherwise would not have qualified.

Now this compares in no way to the Equal Housing Opportunity Act which made discrimination in giving loans (among other things) illegal based on race, color, creed, religion, and so forth.

But your right, as a business person you have a moral and ethical responsibility in conducting business from every facet. This should reflect in all your business dealings from customers to employees to vendors.

I spent the last 9 months looking at businesses whether buying something with me as sole proprietor or partnering. One of the key factors that aided my decision to buy into the business I did is the fact the my partner and I both share the same morals and values in this area.

This was a major point of contention he had with his last partner that lacked these.

Amnesty, thats funny. If I were in Mexico and did something illegal by their current law would I receive Amnesty? I love this crap!

My response, "America has laws, if you do not chose to follow those laws you will risk yourself to consiquences. Kill a man you go to jail. Come here illegally and abuse OUR systems for your benefit, you get sent back where you came from." Pause, look at the first lady of Mexico, "However we do have means of entering into our great nation legally, has your mother considered filing legal immigration?" Since the child obviously was a bit of a smart ass, and the mother had most likely influenced her into saying some BS in order to strike a cause, I would leave it at that. What ever happened to the slightly cocky gun ho Americans that say it as it is. Any opportunity I get I am as honest as I can to people who abuse things. If that makes me come of as Racist, than so be it.

This thread is a good read of civil folks discussing a hot topic, without going bashing one another.

This is my point of view of the subject. Both sides have great points.
But history always repeats itself. Doesn't matter what time period you live in, invasion in one form or another always happens. Life goes on after that.