I have searched a bit around while waiting on some feedback and found this little graphic from a lehner Basic XL 1200 witch is set under 18V (15cells) looks after a nice runtime because of the low Ampere count of 26.03 + a high efficiency of 92% even if the amount of power might be not to high.http://www.lehner-motoren.de/diagram...18v/grafik.gif

But I'm not to sure about it. Can anybody tell me something to this Graphic?

That won't tell you anything about run time, just the out-put of that motor.

I belive a HV would be your best bet for good runtimes.

the 17 V should be the output of the motor?
Its the voltage from the batteries or other sources.
and what is this Ampere line from?
The Output parameter are only the Um and the Ncm

Hmm dont understand this and u only answer the HV would have the best runtime, but why? can u pls explain it a bit more... and can u explain the graphic?

The graphic is for the power not runtime. It varies with the truck, the weight and the gearing.

The HV is very reliable and has a low power output compared to most other Brushless motors, so less energy will be used resulting in longer run times - but still enough power to get good speeds and torque.

Thats the best I can explain and not sure if I am right so don't count on me.

The xl1200 on 15 cells would most likely have more power AND more runtime than the Novak HV system. More cells means it automatically has more available power/energy and the efficiency is greater as well.

I would be almost 100% sure the power would come from a very expensive digital power supply. That way they can easily alter voltage and current very precisely.

The Um output is the rpm of the motor (22432), and the Ncm is the torque (17.93). Power is directly proportional to rpm and torque. Therefore if torque is high and rpm is low, overall power is the same as if torque is low and rpm is high (bad explanation,but you should be able to understand...)

In fact, all the (electric) motors are the exact same, when you calculate them back.

It is the power that they take, vs the power they throw out (efficency) all the motors give the same amount of torque and watts if you calculate it back to raw numbers..

If you have got a brushed and a brushless setup that throw out the same power, in most of the cases (99,9 percent) the brushless setup has got higher efficiency, so it will run longer on the available energy. if they are fed with the same amount of energy the power output of the one that is most efficient will be the highest. (if mechanical losses on both vehicles are the same)

One thing is also nice to know about brushless motors;

the difference in torque from one and another motor from the same serie, but with different winds, is allmost the same, when compared to eachother.

And Rannick;

Please notice, that you linked to a picture directly from BK, if you can host it yourself, please do so. And if you can't please let me know.

The brushless motor is going to run more efficient than the brushed motor.

Keep in mind that your runtimes will most likely drop when racing due to the constant current draw.

The Novak HV boasts a 20% longer runtime so you would probably be looking at up to 18 minute runtimes depending on your power source.

Mike, correct me if I'm wrong but the xl1200 on 15 cells would run at 21600 RPM. So, in order to compensate for the slower rotating motor you would need to gear the transmission higher. In gearing the truck higher, won't you increase your current draw (AMPs) in turn lowering your efficincey/runtime?

True, the xl1200 would need tall gearing to achieve the speed, but on 15 cells, it would still likely draw less current than the HV (which is only rated for 14 cells, by the way). The xl1600 or xl2000 would be my choice for runtime and overall performance on that cell count, but the xl1200, even with tall gearing, would still deliver excellent power and runtime. Also note that 17 volts times 26.03amps would be constant 442.5 watts of power or 407 watts (more than 1/2 horsepower), factoring in efficiency(442.5X92%), which is higher than the Novak's power rating of 375 watts(Not that the power rating necesarily determines its output ).

Thx for that many replys.
Exp. Thx mike u thin out the fog that surrounds BL from my view a bit :)
So as I dont want to high top speeds 30mph would be enough. I dont need to make the gearing to tall. I think my choice will fall on the Lehner basic XL 1200 when the times come. But first I need a Revo Rolling chassi :)

One more question in dafnis Revo conversion thread
the 10L was eulogized for high runtime.

would a 10L or a basic XL 1200 do better?

XL1200 would do better.

K, thx, :)
Then my decision is made.
I will get myself a lehner basic XL 1200 :)

i would suggest buying a good higher end speed controller, such as the 9920, because when you decide to upgrade from the xl1200 (which you will), you dont want to be stuck with having to buy a nother speed controller because the one bought cant handle the more powerful motor. so, my suggestion would be get a GOOD speed controller and a less powerful motor and as your ready just upgrade the motor instead of the whole system.

Hmm yes ok, I want to buy the 7020 / 3BEC WarriorCar he goes up to 70A.

only thing is if you think you will ever want something like the xl3100 you would have to get the 9920. its only a little more and WELL worth every penny. even if you dont end up getting a motor similar to the xl3100 if you ever resold the 99920 it would bring much more money.