Wil this version have a LVC for 1s ?. Also can i assume i still need a reciver pack or external bec pack or a novak smart boost for the radio ?.

It will not include a 1s LiPo cut-off, that is something I will be talking to the engineers about.

You assume correctly. Because we've had to disable the onboard BEC for 1s operation, you will need to supply external power to the receiver. That can be done by using a separate power source like a 2s LiPo with an external BEC or a 4/5 cell receiver pack. You can also boost the voltage using a product like the Novak Smart Boost.

Thomas Porfert
Castle Tech Support

Clarification -- "Custom" cutoff voltages (through Castle Link) will be available for 1-cell range, but there will not be a stick programming option other than "Auto-Lipo" or "Disabled".

^^^^ What he said :) Sorry for the confusion!

Thomas Porfert
Castle Tech Support

Fight Fight Fight - Thanks for the innovations - keep them coming...

How did the pre order go for the 1s MM pro, did you get sufficent orders to consider making this a regular item ?.

I didn't end up ordering one, with Christmas and such and the price was more than I could get a regular MMP, also it didn't help that another manufacturer is offering their 1s esc with built in smart boost for $100. So I didn't end up getting anything, just waiting to see how the 1s war sorts itself out.

Besides, many events have banned the new Castle 1S controller for the remainder of the racing season, 'cause we are too fast.

Which I think is totally BS. Punish the manufacturer for making something BETTER for the hobby. What a load.

Wow, that sucks. OK then, just put a 0.05 ohm resistor in the power lead. :smile:

The solder posts are a cool idea. Will you be adding them to the standard mm pro? Come to think of it, I would prefer solder posts on every esc. Please... :yes:

I totally agree Patrick that is complete BS, just cause you guys are kicking everyone elses butt you shouldn't be punished, heck your controller should be the new standard!

Don't get discouraged by others that have their heads up their arses and are threatened by something new that has been released. If you put the 1s out to the masses, people will buy it and sooner or later all the tracks will be forced to allow it. As an alternative of actually makeing the 1s esc a regular production item, you could support (modded) MMPs with special software and updates, to keep the 1s esc alive at tracks that do allow it untill it becomes the norm. (Obviously modding a MMP will void warranty but hard core racers won't care anyway as the MMP is cheap enough to replace or have repaired under the flat rate charge.)

If I had the extra cash at the time I would have bought your 1s MMP, but I couldn't justify spending the extra cash on a car that wasn't my primary racer. I do have an MMP in my Xray VTA car and its AWESOME, people were even accusing me of C.H.E.A.T.ing :lol: and will soon have one for my Ve8.

Patrick,

Do you think it's time for a new and better sanctioning body if ROAR has anything to do with this? One that would allow technology to strive. So from what you're saying, Castle's MMP, Tekin's RS/RS Pro, Novak's Kinetic, Team Wave RBs, Orca and AE Black Diamond will all be banned due to the turbo or any other new features?

Patrick at least your ESC is 1/2 the cost of the Black diamond esc :lol:. . I belive your esc is legal at the snowbirds . Yes it is BS about the ban on your 1s esc . Are they banning it because it's to fast, or the fact that they are not readily avalible yet to everyone ?.

No, this isn't ROAR, it's TOUR and BRL -- the carpet racing guys. The MMP 1S will be legal next racing season (after summer 2010--) But we worked hard to get the 1S on the market before Jan 1st so we would be legal, and then the outlawed us anyway. :whip:

And yes, we will be legal for Snowbirds... And it wasn't just us, Tekin's new software, and the Black Diamond were also banned.

So it goes. :wink:

I hope this doesn't put an end to new technology. In one way, this is complete BS. If I spend the money on a ESC, I should be allowed to use it, specially if I pay to race. It would be awesome to see everyone not going, because everyone had a banned ESC, TOUR and BRL would die quick. One day our hobby will be just like full scale racing full of BS rules.

Screw TOUR and BRL, I want to race under the LUTACH rules :rules:

With all due respect to Patrick (and that is a lot!), the comments above indicate you just don't get what this is about.

The reason for the carpet racers to go to 1S to begin with was to slow down the cars and have different speed classes with the available motors. So there is a 17.5/1S class for beginners, 13.5/1S class for intermediate skill drivers and a 10.5/1S class for experts.

The Advanced Timing speedos like the Mamba Max Pro threw that out the window by making the 17.5 as fast as the 13.5 was and the 13.5 as fast as the 10.5 was. So to keep the speeds the same for this season TOUR and BRL recommended against (or banned) the A.T. ESCs.

The plan is next season to drop down one more wind for each class and use 21.5/1S for beginner, and so on.

They would rather have people continue to race this season with classes they already fit into than have people quit because the cars are too fast.

For carpet racers it is not about how fast you can go, leaving other cars in the dust, it is about having close competitive racing (at least to the extent possible given the skill of the competitors).

Well then, if that's what the're after, they need an rpm limiter module. That way, no matter what ESC or motor or voltage is used, all the cars will be the same speed.

What rules :lol:. I mean, rules are fine, but to a certain extent. Not allowing one to use a ESC because it has kick ass technology, that's total BS. Like I mentioned before, a ROAR director has said 4 and 6 pole sensored motors are legal and yes I'm trying to get a few made. If Castle or any other company comes out with one before it'll be great and then we will see how this so called sanctions or clubs will treat them.

I have to agree with this one, but how is this fair for the manufacturer? If Castle has a better product then the over priced ones, then it would be awesome for Castle to enjoy some profit, not on a over priced unit, but one made here in the US. Not only that, a lot of LHS would also enjoy selling some more ESCs in these hard times. I know they're struggling, so a ESC like the MMP which is not expensing, would be nice for them. When I raced a Xtreme RC Addicts, I used my 21.5T motor with 4 cell NiMH and everyone else was running a 17.5T or 13.5T with 1S lipos. My car was not set up properly, but I could still keep up with them. So would my ESC be banned as well and it doesn't even have A.T. in it?

Edit: So how many ESC are there without A.T. at them moment? Novak and Losi?

RPM limiter is unrealistic. It won't solve the problem (even if all the manufacturers agreed to put one on) because it is not just about RPM but power output. You ought to know that, Brian. You would need different RPM limits for the different motors. Way too complicated for no real benefit. The RPM limiter they use now is the wind of the motor and it works better than anything else.

As stated above, it is not being disallowed because of the technology but to keep the speed of the classes in the range that they were designed for without making people switch motors mid season.

Ok, now I got it.

If castle was producing more ESC than they could sell, I might feel sorry for them about two teensy, weensy, minisucle parts of the RC scene banning their ESCs. But they are not. I've got one on backorder for a few weeks now. They obviously sold enough of the December 1S pre-order lot (at the retail price) to be doing another pre-order lot for January.

That your 21.5 would keep up with the 17.5/13.5 shows the folly of RPM limiting. Were you running 1/12th scale oval? If not, the comparison does not apply.

The Tekin technically has A.T. but it isn't done in a manner that makes as much of a difference as C.H.E.A.T. mode.

To be honest -- we designed C.H.E.A.T. (Castle High Energy Advanced Timing) mode to show ROAR how bad their rules are. ROAR doesn't really seem to care that their rules for brushless motors and ESCs need a lot of work... and they have stopped taking input from manufacturers on the rules. (At least officially)

There are several more steps we can take to get even more power than C.H.E.A.T. mode, so expect incremental increases in power over the next couple years as we release new hardware and new software. And expect the rest of the pack to continue to follow our lead. :whip:

BUT LRP has A.T., and they are legal. What gives?

Patrick, I love it. I love that the Pro is turning the Oval (and many other) world upside down. I just wish your tech support people knew more about how to best use this technology. I called today to ask about how bets to use it and the guy I talked to didn't really have good info for me.

Theirs isn't as good as yours!

It was more of a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek response. I think this whole thing is ridiculous. For a given voltage, a motor can only spin so fast. Period. The thing here is efficiency. So, because other companies don't/can't make a controller that is as efficient, CC has to suffer? It's not like they're using a switching step-up power supply or anything. And it's not about who has the most money wins since the MMpro1s is cheaper than just about everything else out there.

If they want to regulate it that much, they should just hand everyone the car they want people to use and be done with it.

Actually Brian, we are making the motor go way above Kv*V, by using some timing and commutation tricks -- So they do have a point. But we didn't start it, LRP and Tekin had variable timing way before we did. We just took it a little further, and added some commutation tricks in...

We are also producing a lot more power -- for example, a 21.5 turn motor with fixed timing produces about 108 watts at the 50% efficiency point (I know- - the design of the motor is TERRIBLE!) We are getting about 190 watts output from the same motor at the 50% efficiency point, by changing the timing and commutation method.

If the ROAR motor wasn't so badly designed in the first place, we wouldn't be able to use software "trickery" to make the motor perform better (at least not by the same magnitude...)

I had edited my original post because I realized that kv*voltage error as well. A braincramp moment. :smile: Regardless, as you say, other people are doing these "tricks", how is it your fault that their algorithms are not as good? There is nothing stopping them from improving their designs after all (unless of course their designs are not updateable, which again is not your fault).

I agree with you. But I also understand where they are coming from - -the 1S Mamba Pro is limited production, and to compete, everyone would have to buy a Mamba Pro.

I'd like that (of course) -- but I do understand the need to keep the classes even.

Wow thats some really cool info Patrick. I can't wait for the "updates" to get even more power, you just changed my mind on which 1s speedo im buying, I can't believe I was even thinking of going with another brand. :neutral:

I assume the future power updates will also work for the regular MMP as well? As I have one that I run in my VTA car as well.