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-   -   Fastest Motor on 6s? (https://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30634)

snellemin 11.29.2011 12:12 PM

Foam tires are nice, but would cost alot to make a set for a Revo. Well at least for me anyways.
Sandwiching 5 layers of different durometers of foam, cutting and trueing to 1cm on a 4-5" tall rim would do the trick. Foam tires are light and you can make them wider if you have the rim for it.

BrianG 11.29.2011 01:17 PM

Why not just basically "paint" the rubber on the rim? Basically a solid rubber tire fully glued to the rim, but not too thick to create a lot of weight.

RootzMan 11.29.2011 02:19 PM

All good creative inputs guys. I think Kevlar is intending to try using some kind of hydraulic hose, stretched over a wheel. If it can be done and it doesn't crush the wheel, I'd say it's got real potential. Sorry if you were hoping to keep that secret, Kev. Unfortunately, there are a gazillion different rubbers and synthetics so the chances that the formulation for a hydraulic hose is good for tyres is pretty remote but it's worth a try.

Nic Case, current RC World Speed Record holder has put a lot of time and effort into moulding tyres onto wheels and vulcanising them on the wheels themselves. I think he would admit that his results have been inconsistent so far.

I haven't been into it in any great depth as I elected to go the foam route. I used a set of Jaco foams that were originally produced for the Savage....

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...inished005.jpg

I needed to make up adaptors to suit the 14mm hexes...
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...Voltage053.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...Voltage051.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...Voltage054.jpg

...and in fact, they worked very well indeed. As you can see, I narrowed the front wheels by about 0.5". If anybody fancies these, together with the adaptors, send me a PM as they're just drying out in my workshop.

There was another guy who persuaded John's BSR to make up a set of big foams for his E-Maxx. They were narrower than mine and cost him a whole lot without much success.

TexasSP 11.29.2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RootzMan (Post 414362)
I have no idea how you get the impression that I think my experience matters more than any other. I can only imagine that you didn't read my posts correctly. I think no such thing and am always prepared to learn from people who's open minds and creative character have allowed them to explore new ground.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that snellemin's only post in this thread concerns motor choice and nothing about wheels or tyres. I find that a useful maxim is always to read 3 times before typing.

Strange how you now state that hitting 100mph will take immense effort when your previous post implied that it was easy. And if you think it's easy to make tyres, I suggest you do so. You may find it harder than you think.

Your suggestion that short-course-based wheels would be suitable as a basis for a speed-run wheel is very interesting, if somewhat misguided. I'm not sure why you chose short course. I tried buggy wheels with on-road tyres ( inconclusively )...

However, I'm not convinced short-course wheels would be an improvement. Unless you have a persuasive argument.

You make a lot of assumptions again and again.

I have made my own tires, it is done quite a bit in the crawler/scaler world using other tires, cutting, then gluing.

Bigger tires make for more weight and higher rotating mass, thus robbing you of energy that could be put elsewhere.

Like I said, I did the speed thing, I know what it takes. I never implied it would be easy. I can tell you though that I never got anywhere using bigger tires and gearing for them.

As for snellemin's posts I was agreeing on the points about motors and then adding my own about the tires. You seem to want to pick apart little things too much. Stop being so asinine about the whole thing. :whistle:

anunaki 12.03.2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414345)
Putting that motor in a revo is impractical for many reasons including the shear size. You also can't compare a flat chassis truggy to the revo chassis when doing something of this nature.

A motor that size is also not needed to reach 100 in an e-revo. Many of the options already suggested would be a good start. Either way it's something that will take some experimentation to get right and more than just the motor mount and size needs to be in the equation.

RootzMan, we all know that much of what is on here is a matter of opinion so no need beating the subject to prove whatever point or feeling you have about it. You do have to keep in mind that most of the people here are offering their opinions based on personal experience and facts which goes much further than just someone stating their opinion who has never tried any of this before.

Greeaaaatttt day darn good info!dido.

roost 12.03.2011 08:27 PM

Some data log of a Lehner 2240/7 on 6s pushing a savage xl around. Anyone else got Graphs? im interested in seeing what other motors on 6s put out

http://i40.tinypic.com/6ohlk8.jpg

RootzMan 12.04.2011 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414376)
You make a lot of assumptions again and again.

What assumptions? Assuming you don't know what you're talking about? I would have said that was self-evident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414376)
I have made my own tires, it is done quite a bit in the crawler/scaler world using other tires, cutting, then gluing.

When the vehicle in question is only going to do 3mph, cut'n'shut tyres are all well and good. I would never recommend this construction technique for speed tyres. Unless you really like to see spectacular crashes.


Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414376)
Bigger tires make for more weight and higher rotating mass, thus robbing you of energy that could be put elsewhere.

It's true to say that, for a given construction, the bigger the tyre, the higher the rotating mass and that this will reduce the power available to propel the vehicle forward. It's not true to say that big tyres are bad. There is a trade-off and it's therefore reasonable to assume that there is a "sweet spot" somewhere along the continuum between 2" and 8". Where that sweet spot is will depend on the construction of the tyre and wheel. Foam tyres are generally far lighter than standard rubber and so the sweet spot will tend towards the larger sizes. That said, let us remember that the fastest E-Revo so far, used 5 1/2" tyres.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414376)
Like I said, I did the speed thing, I know what it takes. I never implied it would be easy. I can tell you though that I never got anywhere using bigger tires and gearing for them.

You did "the speed thing"? Perhaps you'd be willing to share your performance. Just because you never got anywhere with larger tyres doesn't persuade me unless you're going to substantiate your opinion with facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSP (Post 414376)
As for snellemin's posts I was agreeing on the points about motors and then adding my own about the tires. You seem to want to pick apart little things too much. Stop being so asinine about the whole thing. :whistle:

Well, I certainly congratulate you on learning a new word. It pays to enrich your word power. However, knowing words isn't everything. You need to know how to put them in an order that reflects what's going on in your head. I suggest you practice that. As for the name calling, it now becomes clear to me why you were defending Brian's post. You think insulting strangers is acceptable. Well, let's hope you don't insult some one who's carrying a gun. Oh! And before you descend into a tirade involving statements about my Mother, I'm immune to such attempts as these really only work on Americans.

lincpimp 12.04.2011 09:22 PM

Man, you guys are really sh!tting in this thread....

I did some speed runs in a revo a few years back. My setup was bl with stock suspension and I was using the revo to test the effect of wheel balancing and tire taping.

My conclusions were as follows:

An unbalanced tire is a bad idea, especially if it is not taped either. Even at 60mph the out of balance condition was causing enough force to compress the suspension to its upward travel limit and let the tire leave the ground.

Taping helped, but balancing was the only way to get the vehicle to track smoothly. Pretty sure I was running a 1515 1d on 4s, geared high enough to get over 60mph with properly taped an balanced tires that would not grow (keep in mind tire growth increases the rollout, so you will go farther per tire revolution, thus faster top speed.)

Pretty sure the 1521 wil be the longest can motor that will fit an ervo with mods. I think 1521 on 6s with a sutable kv to do 45k - 50k rpm max with the correct gearing will be the best bet to get up to 100mph. Airflow mgmt will be critical, and I think a tire around 1.5" wide will be about right.

Limiting the suspension travel to the minimun you can get away with is critical. 1/2 inch of travel at the tire and a very smooth survace will yeild the best result.

I like the body you have rootzman, keeping air out of under the body is a good idea. You can cut the back out to aid air extraction as well.

RootzMan 12.05.2011 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp (Post 414695)
Pretty sure the 1521 wil be the longest can motor that will fit an ervo with mods. I think 1521 on 6s with a sutable kv to do 45k - 50k rpm max with the correct gearing will be the best bet to get up to 100mph. Airflow mgmt will be critical, and I think a tire around 1.5" wide will be about right.

My conclusion too. I seem to remember that, in order to fit it, I had to shave down the motor mount and grind the shaft down too. Then, with the gearing I was running, I had to accommodate a lower position for the motor. That was only possible by modifying the rear shock mount.

Not sure I'd agree with 1 1/2" wide tyres. That just seems a tad narrow to me.

Here's a body style I mocked up but never got further. If I were to go back to speed running my E-Revo, I think I may well take this route.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...-Mighty022.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...-Mighty024.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...-Mighty023.jpg

TexasSP 12.05.2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RootzMan (Post 414675)
What assumptions? Assuming you don't know what you're talking about? I would have said that was self-evident.



When the vehicle in question is only going to do 3mph, cut'n'shut tyres are all well and good. I would never recommend this construction technique for speed tyres. Unless you really like to see spectacular crashes.




It's true to say that, for a given construction, the bigger the tyre, the higher the rotating mass and that this will reduce the power available to propel the vehicle forward. It's not true to say that big tyres are bad. There is a trade-off and it's therefore reasonable to assume that there is a "sweet spot" somewhere along the continuum between 2" and 8". Where that sweet spot is will depend on the construction of the tyre and wheel. Foam tyres are generally far lighter than standard rubber and so the sweet spot will tend towards the larger sizes. That said, let us remember that the fastest E-Revo so far, used 5 1/2" tyres.



You did "the speed thing"? Perhaps you'd be willing to share your performance. Just because you never got anywhere with larger tyres doesn't persuade me unless you're going to substantiate your opinion with facts.



Well, I certainly congratulate you on learning a new word. It pays to enrich your word power. However, knowing words isn't everything. You need to know how to put them in an order that reflects what's going on in your head. I suggest you practice that. As for the name calling, it now becomes clear to me why you were defending Brian's post. You think insulting strangers is acceptable. Well, let's hope you don't insult some one who's carrying a gun. Oh! And before you descend into a tirade involving statements about my Mother, I'm immune to such attempts as these really only work on Americans.

No thank you.

Rivermaxx 03.06.2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RootzMan (Post 414374)
There was another guy who persuaded John's BSR to make up a set of big foams for his E-Maxx. They were narrower than mine and cost him a whole lot without much success.

That happens to be me I broke the current open wheel world record for that year(2009) and probably still the fastest e-maxx around so "not much success" is your opinion. How fast is your erevo on 6s? Id really like to know Vid or proof would be appreciated. Btw There was no other option for tires back then bsr made them for ~150 and told me to run them narrow. Should of made them wide or used traction compound because traction after 70 mph on that dirty track sucked for foam tires. Sorry for post digging but needed to defend my car lol.

RRHobbydepot 04.07.2012 12:17 AM

Any new updates? How r u keeping the front end down? I keep having unloading issues on both my personal vehicles.

RootzMan 04.07.2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivermaxx (Post 418943)
That happens to be me I broke the current open wheel world record for that year(2009) and probably still the fastest e-maxx around so "not much success" is your opinion. How fast is your erevo on 6s? Id really like to know Vid or proof would be appreciated. Btw There was no other option for tires back then bsr made them for ~150 and told me to run them narrow. Should of made them wide or used traction compound because traction after 70 mph on that dirty track sucked for foam tires. Sorry for post digging but needed to defend my car lol.

I am really sorry, Rivermaxx. My memory isn't as good as I thought. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

My Revo never fulfilled its promise, I'm afraid and is now enjoying a well-earned retirement with a Ballistic 8 and an RX8. It wasn't for want of power, grip or aero. My set-up skills were the real let-down. It was nigh-on undriveable. If you fancy a gander, here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2p3IYbNms0

You live and learn! :oops:

Cheerz!

Rootz


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