One more... this is a full graph about 9 minutes in te street... 2225 mah etc etc

Don't want to stay off topic but..... :) I think we just won't see the same #'s in the truck as we see in the discharge graphs from the guys who test a bunch of batteries.

They are using heavy wires directly connected to a bare cell... no esc, no long wires, no connectors, fresh off the charger, etc etc

The maxamps 6000 packs "feel" better than any other packs I have right now, so I am sure the numbers from the others would be worse yet...

I am going to put together a big pack for the truggy for super long run time... I can't wait to see the data from those packs. I think the voltage will hold very very well with a 12000mah pack. :)

One thing that concerned me;

my maxamps 4000mAh packs came with thin wires; 14awg..

Thanks for the graphs, are you using the micrologger too?

yup... new toy for me.

I think the Mamba Max comes with 14ga also. But high strand quality wires like this don't have much loss esp in just a few inches of wiring.

I know what you mean though... I have been using 12ga wet noodle for years and 14ga seems kinda small. But really, the 12ga may have just been overkill all these years. :)

The Mamba Max has 13ga. wires on the ESC, and the motors have flexible 12ga. wire.

Are they that big??? :) oops I should look closer huh? I must have some big arse 12ga cause they look kinda thin... ha ha

All wire has resistance. The shorter and/or smaller lengths have less. The shorter you have the wire, the smaller gauge it can be. If the wires needed to be like 10 feet long, we'd have to use 4 gauge for ~75A! Using smaller than recommended will just create more voltage drop and heat for any given length.

That's not overkill glass, if 12GA wire gets hot already, it's not overkill to use it. with that in mind, 14ga is too small.

ok...14 is bad. that make me feel better. :) I think I was forgetting how small 14ga is... and assumed the MM smaller wire was 14. At any rate, Castle says there is no way those wires are an issue... that they are more than capable for what the systems can sdish out.

who gets 12 ga 1400 strand wire hot???

Yeah, they do use 12ga for the battery leads.. And a 1/10th setup is less current hungry than a 1/8th monstertruck

I like deans wet noodle 12 gauge they work pretty good.... but they're are they a little bit thicker then deans utra 12 gauge. I try to use 10 gauge for everything.... I don't like it either when batteries comes with 14 gauge wires.. it just looks funny...

I don't know if this was answered or not, but I just figured out what it means myself. Y = Wye wound and D= Delta wound. It also looks like Wye wind can handle more voltage.

Whats the diference between a Y wind and a D wind? Is one better, or just diferent ways of acomplishing the same thing?

Delta wind looks like a triangle. Each end of the coil is a point on the triangle with each coil as one of the sides. Wye wind looks like the letter Y with one end of the coil at each end point of the Y, the other end of all three coils are tied together at the junction of the Y. The coils make up the "legs".

Generally, the Y wind is used in 3-phase industrial AC because there is a common neutral lead. This creates the 120v from each lead to this common point and each is 120 degrees out of phase from each other. Obviously, this requires four wires (one of each point and the neutral). Delta is used to transmit high voltage AC across long distances on the high tension power lines. There is no need for a neutral or common lead here. The biggest advantage is that it requires one less wire so it saves money on the physical wiring. Ever notice how those high tension wires are in three? That's why (or should I say "not wye", lol ...I know, bad pun).

If our BL motors are wired in Y configuration, the center point isn't a lead, it's just a common point in the motor. Only the ends of the Y are hooked to the motor leads. However, the signal has to go through two coils instead of just one. This increases the resistance, reduces the current, and splits the voltage. So more voltage can be used. The signal going to a delta-wired motor goes through only one coil at once (less resistance/more current/less voltage is needed). Actually, it's a little more complex than this because of the 60 degree out of phase thing, but that's a basic example.

[edited for error]

Wow... I think I get it. Anyone got a link that I can read about this more in depth?

Here is a decent write-up...

I think what BG is trying to say is ummm... there are two ways (in this case) to skin a cat. :D

The reason they have motors in both delta and wye styles is simply to get more variety in kv ratings.... a wider range of #'s. There is already a big jump between some kv ratings even with both styles of wind. Such as the gap from the 2.5D 1700kv.... to the 1Y 2200kv in the 1515 line. If they only offered Y or D then this gap would be wider yet.

FYI... Some have claimed one or the other to be a superior method, but according to the Neu distributor, both styles are equal... they say one is not "better" than the other. So it doesn't matter which style you get. Just pick the kv you want.

Sounds like delta could have the potential to produce a bit more torque.?

Just a note that I tweaked the truggy a bit and did another quick midnight test run... trying not to annoy the nieghbors too much.

I'm guessing the top speed is kinda slow (I will check that tomorrow) but geeze this thing has serious torque. (Neu 1512 1900kv) Truggies are not supposed to pull wheelies are they???? :D

This may need a new thread... but part of the magic I think is the new lipo packs I soldered up today, using maxamps 4000 cells. I have a 4s 12000mah setup in it and it's incredible.

Pulling wheelies is getting +100A spikes and the voltage (fresh off the charger) was holding over 3.7v per cell. Lowest voltage recorded in the two minutes zipping around was 14.9v on a 107amp spike.

I think I will try making my 6000 packs into some 9000s and I may have to retract somewhat what I have said about lipo packs. eg lower rated cells are fine if you run a large pack... that you don't need to buy the latest and greatest 20C cells etc.

This is still true, imho.... however after seeing the punch this huge pack delivers I wonder if the TRUE 15-20c cells could have a bigger performance edge that I thought over the good value 10C type cells, if the size of the packs are similar.

Some aspects like top speed I doubt are affected much, but holeshot is very impressive with the near-zero voltage drop.

Anyway I will run this thing tomorrow and see what it can do.

It is hard to say, depends on motor, application and controller (true AC or mod. AC).

Check discussion here

In some cases in Delta is harder for sensoreless ESC to identify rotor position then in Star.

Artur

Well i got one myself to try. I got a 1512 2.5d. It kind of surprised me. It has good power and pretty smooth. I don't care for open design. I mussed steering linkage so couldn't finish testing. I think they are pretty good motors so far.

I thought the 1512's and 1515's are closed Leroy?

got a picture of her?

Not yet. It is open though. I think Mike is going to see if they make a closed in model. I try to get some later.

I must run my stuff harder than mike... I got my motors up to 200 degrees in testing yesterday at the track. That's after a very long run. After 5-10 minutes the temps are not bad... like 150-180 max. But eventually I got them hot. I ran at least 30 minutes with the truggy/1515... not sure exactly how long.

So I'm a little disapointed in that, but the motors still are awesome on runtime and they take a lot longer to heat up than my hacker or feigaos.

I have the cars geared for only about 30mph... not too high. That's about the same as mike's truck, and both trucks weigh about the same too.

I'm going to put a fan on them and see what happens. I think that will help a lot on a long run.

The biggest shock of the day was how great the Mamba Max worked. I don't think it ever hit 150 without a fan, and it temped like 120s with a small fan. I didn't check or record the mamba temps a lot cause it never got very hot so I wasn't concerned. Just surprised. :)

I think your truck might be a little under geared and thats why the motor was getting hot.

I ran my neu and it reached about 110 with 90 temps out side. I was
happy with it.

Yeah I need to do some experimenting.... I can say the runtime was AWESOME....

My buggy ran 15 minutes solid racing and used less than 4000mah according to the eagle tree and my charger... about 3800 or so...

Oh... I think the MM might have temped over 160 once... I didn't write stuff down. Anyway, it was more than cool enough.

@glass;

do you use the mamba maxx on 4S?

yep... with a ubec

Wow. These motors sound great. Doctor-do you hit the brakes a lot on the track? If so, that might be a concern. It puts a lot on the motor!!!! FYI. The more you use the brakes, the more it's gonna heat up.

Glass, does the mamba maxx supports a 4S cut-off?

It does. You can choose custom cutoff voltage or 12v, and I think even auto Lipo cutoff.

Sounds like a nice controller then.. perhaps i need to try one on my XL2400, on 4S..

I guess you remove the red wire from the esc to the receiver, right?

If you use a UBEC, yes.

that was what I was talking about.

thanks.

Well... I met BrianG today at the track. It was kinda hectic so I didn't get to talk with him too much and I didn't get to see his Jato. Next time...

I just got home from from the trophy race. I got 2nd in truggy and broke my buggy and got 9th.

Bummer is that the weekend did not go as planned and I did not get the testing/feedback I was looking forward to from my setups. It was all I could do just to get the cars on the track etc....

Long story short(er)....

I had one run where the Mamba got very hot , when I geared the truggy higher and had no fan on the esc. Mamba hit about 230, and after the race it was acting funny and I think it thermalled... but only after I was done and stopped for a second... then it wouldn't go. I think the gear mesh may have been a little tight. I geared from a 12T pinion to a 14T. The truck was very fast with the gear change....

But I geared back to the 12T for the mains just in case the mamba didn't like it. Mains were shortened to 15 min due to weather... I got 2nd from last place start (missed quals) and motor was 175... mamba had a fan on it and was under 100 by the time I got to temp it. Probably was higher while racing.

I have to charge up the battery and see how much juice it used in the 15 min race. I'm guessing not much :) these motors rock...

I must admit it was neat to hear all those Nitro "mosquitos" buzzing around the track, and there came glassdoctor's blessedy quiet and pollution-free truck tearing up the track. :)

I was able to get a look at two of his trucks and the tiny Mamba Max looks funny in those large vehicles. Seemed to run very well though.

Just charged the pack from the truggy.... guess how many mah the ICE put back into it after a 15 minute main... including a couple warm-up and "victory" laps?

Just over 3600mah. Cool. I never would have thought that's possible with a 11lb+ truck.

So I could easily run a 45 minute main at that rate with the 12000mah pack and a 30 min main on an 8000 pack.

I can't wait to try gearing up again and see what difference that makes to motor temp and runtime.

You got me excited about the Mamba Max/ Neu motor setup. I spent most of the day working on my Hyper 7 making a new top chassis plate to hold the MM and the other electronics. I hope this is the last top plate I have to make for a while. I've set it setup with a fan on the ESC and one on the motor just for good measure. I'm happy with the way it looks. Took it for a quick run on the back yard grass just to make sure it works. Can't wait to get it out in the dirt.

-Cartwheels/ aka Muck