Sorry to hear about your toasted MM. Gotta love the $50 warranty.

I run a Plette Max motor in my buggy, it is also a 4 pole motor. I have had NO cogging issues at all. I started with the factory default settings.

She runs on 4S, I get about 25-28 minutes out of the 8000 Mah TP packs with no cogging or thermal issues. With no fan the MM gets up to about 150, with a fan on I have not seen it go above 138.

I have even run multiple packs right after each other and the MM temps were still sub 140. I did burn out my Airtronics servo (ran over an hour straight).

Another intresting point was the center diff got to 150+ degrees also!!!

My gearing on this buggy is 11/46. I wonder if you are geared too high for the LMT?

I even ran in mud the last weekend with no issues. The buggy's weight got up to 12 lbs (with no mud she weights 9 lbs).

Dude. That is tons of mud! What do you think caused the diff to get hot? I had a single speed in my maxx that tended to get on the warm side. Gear mesh perhaps?

Update:

Swapped out the MM for a Quark from another model. Now it runs smooth as butter.

I also tried the Outrunner with the quark.

First off it runs very smooth on the quark. No cogging like with the MM. But the weird thing is, it runs better in the standard Inrunner mode. In outrunner mode it will only spin very slow and the amp draw spikes like crazy. So... I guess I run it in Inrunner mode (very good crazyjr, you called it on that one):dft009:

I gotta say it a little different feeling than the typical motors I'm used to. It has a little slower spool up than the inrunners. It just feels like the motor is a little flat on the very bottom and very top ends. But the mid range is exceptionally powerful for the size of the motor. At first I thought there was something wrong cuz I'm used to having the serious bottom end punch, but then once I started to get the feel for it I realized what was happening. This little motor has some serious torque. Especially in the mid range rpm. I can be cruzin at 20-25 mph and punch it just break all 4 tires loose and start sliding.

I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of explaining this, but it almost feels like a nitro when you drive it. a little slow on the bottom end as it spools up, it hits it optimal power band in the mid range and then slowly tails off at the top end. Only more powerful feeling than nitro and the spool up and top end tail off aren't as much as nitro. It kinda cool actually. I really couldn't do a ton of driving with this thing tonight, it raining, but there is a parking garage that is just down the street from me and this time of night the top 2 levels are totally empty so I use it as an indoor testing facility.:dft012:

Its supposed to rain the next couple days (thats better than snow:018: ) and then Xmas so it will probably be next week before I get to do any more testing.

At this point, I can say Its different, but intriguing. I want to play with the gearing on this a little. I may have had it slightly over geared and that exaggerated the feeling.

EDIT: Oh yea... And the motor brakes absolutly suck with the outrunner motor. I think its cuz the motor itself has so much rotating mass that between that and the weigh of the buggy, it really takes more to stop it all. I normally run my quark with the brakes set to soft, but I think I may have to raise that up a little with this motor.

Any more testing with the outrunner yet? Can't wait to hear how the little motor does!:027:

Don't expect too much of it. An outrunner is not suited for the constant variety in RPM's a car puts it thru. the moving mass is simple too far away from the center and the wires are relative thin.

Far from ideal.

I havent spent any time running the buggy on the outrunner since the last testing. I have been running it on a Quark 80 and a Neu 1515/2.5D. I took it up to the local track and ran a few packs thought it. No problems with the motor ESC combo. Actually ran very cool. (of course it was only 45 degrees) But no heat isses at all. I was just testing out the rest of the build and seing how it all held up and handled. With the holidays and all I havent had much chance on the weekends to get out and run it again.

I wound up spending the last couple weeks revising some of my mounting. The esc mount I put in to test the Quark 80B wasnt quite up to snuff and I needed to make an aluminum and CF mount that would be more permanant than the zip ties I was using before taking it out again.

All in all It ran nice on the track. Needed to make some setup changes. I was running to stiff on the springs and shock oil so I lightened them up. Hopefully this help handleing the bumpy stuff. Flew straight and it was really fast. Had a small crowd around it in the pit. They acted like the had never seen a brushless 1/8 (they hadn't :D ) Then when it ran I had quite an audience. Thats when it really sucks to be as bad a driver as I am. Quite embarasing.:dft001:
Had one of the local hot shot drivers offer me $1000 for it on the spot. I told him that 1000 wouldnt cover it. But I would help him build one if he wanted to. (doing my part to suck more people in):018:
Next time I run I will test it with the outrunner again to see how she runs on the track. Hopefully in the next couple weeks. I've been more worried about the mounting and chassis setup to this point.


Actually Serum, the little that I did run it I was surprised at how good it felt and the power it generated. Like I said. A little different feeling with slower spool up, and weak motor braking, but good enough that I am interested to see what it does on a track.

There was another guy there that was running the Cyclon Car 5000 outrunner motor on the Quark 65 in his T4. He liked it. He said it had nice feel and smoother power than the other brushless motors he was running.


Side note: Sent the burnt MM in to CC just before X-mas per their customer service department directions. Still havent heard anything from them. Hopefully soon.

Just a suggestion based on the rpm limits, I know that the outrunners run like a 4 stroke (on a different rpm scale) but these are a little different. I'm thinking about trying these on my local track

I wouldn't expect it to be as strong as some of the more commonly used motors. According to tower hobbies site this thing only weighs 5.6 oz.. My M.M. 5700 is closer to 6.5 oz. If 5.6 is correct, and it has enough power for on the track that would be great!:027:

I did get a little more testing done this week with the outrunner. I ran 2 more packs with it and 2 more packs with the Neu 1515/2.5D. All in all it ran pretty well on the outrunner, but it didn't quite have the snap and responsiveness of the neu. The spool up made it feel a little sluggish on the bottom end. I think I am going to wind up sticking with the Neu and the Quark 80B as the final setup.

I forgot my eagletree but using my Watts Up meter I saw amp spikes of around 120A on the Outrunner motor and around 112A on the Neu. I'm kinda surprised that the outrunner was drawing more considering how much bigger the neu motor is.

I also made a few changes to the setup to accommodate the Quark. I made an ESC mount/heatsink out of aluminum L stock and put a haetsink on the side with a small fan. Seems to work fine, but when is 40 degrees outside anything stays cool. We'll see this summer I guess.

Anyway... Heres a few photos of its final (for now) form.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1615.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1617.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1618.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1619.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1620.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1622.jpg

Pretty sweet!

You must have been anticipating using some rather large pinion/spur combos judging by the length of the adjustment slots on the motor mount!

It was actually a mistake part that was left over from my XLB project. :rolleyes: The XLB Runs a 65T spur so It needed a little longer mount. I was able to salvage it and make it work for this application. Your right, Its way longer than I need, but I already had it. I just needed to drill a couple screw holes into it for mounting and I was done. So I took the lazy route rather than starting from scratch again.

Lol, that makes sense. I just thought you got carried away with making the slots. :)

BTW: I don't like the term "lazy". I prefer "efficient". :)

Cool. How was the torque of the out runner to the neu though?

Very nice work jhautz! Looks like it can whip the crap out of a nitro ! Than again almost any bl will do that. ;)

yeah it looks nice!

The torque was fine, but on the bottom end it took so long to spool up it felt like there wanst enough snap. It felt like a nitro where when I punched the throttle from a standstill or slow roll it kinda felt like it bogged down and didnt really take off like I expect from brushless.

I tryed a few different pinion sizes and it didnt seem to make much difference in the end all it did was effect the top speed, not really much difference in the bottom end.

Mid range was just a powerfull feeling as the neu, if not even more. so no issues there. Starscreams clutch system hess using in his 8ight migh be a potential solution. Although, it actually feels like there is a clutch on it.

Do you think using a different size outrunner might affect the "snap"?

possibly.... But this is the only size that I found that is 40K rpm capable. All the others are like 10K rpm motors.

The fact that they made is capable of 40k rpm, yet is actually quite small physically may have something to do with the performance. Kinda like trying to use an S size motor on something large - it will work (and be hot), but will struggle a bit and suck some serious current to do it.

I wonder if using a typical 10k outrunner and gearing appropriately will work much better?

It could possibly work better, but, how are you gonna gear and get the voltage to run near that 10K... Somthing maybe leroy should try;)

It would probably be better for a direct drive type of system. For instance; a typical outrunner KV is 600. Using a 4s pack gets it to 8800 rpm. Use a buggy diff connected directly to the motor shaft. With that 3.3:1 ratio and using typical 5.65" tires, top speed would be about 48mph.

Didnt think of that... lol

lol, it was too simple! :)

Very nice conversion Jhautz.

Where do you get you carbon fiber angle stock from?

Thanks.:018:


http://www.graphiteelegance.com/

Its a Ma and Pa shop, but great product for great prices. Sometimes you have to wait a few days for shipping if he doesnt have what you ordered in stock cuz he has to make it for you. He will even do custom formed shapes for you if you give him a drawing. That costs a bit more, but I can see making some really slick looking parts like that. Overall, great place to deal with IMO.

you'd need a spur for the pinion

?????????????? Huh?

On the lower kv outrunners, sorry should've quoted

You could simply make/get an adaptor to attach the drive shaft directly to the motor shaft without the use of a pinion/spur arrangement...

That sounds interesting...2 brushless outrunners back to back driving front and rear driveshafts via a coupler of some sort....you'd need two discreet esc's but why not ??

pinolelst

Why would you need two motors? Aren't there motors out there with shafts on both ends?

I don't honestly know.My exposure to outrunners is from the aircraft realm and none that I can think of have shafts exiting both ends long enough to couple to.???

pinolelst

hyperion for example have shafts on both ends :D

link please :D


pinolelst :D

sorry, only have a german shop for info.
dont seem to find hyperion's webspot.:002:
edit: http://www.brushless-lipoly-shop.de/

here's a Japan site.
http://www.aircraft-world.com/

they've got a lot of hyperion stuff.:027:

you guys think the hyperions are suited for cars?
thanks, mike.:D

Of the motors I saw with a front and rear shaft they looked too small IMHO...plus how is the lack of a center diff going to act on the now solid motor shaft connecting both front and rear driveshafts ?? Won't that be a source of great torque stress along the common shaft when the two axles try to turn at different speeds in a corner for instance ??

thanks

pinolelst

wow, ancient thread.


what ever happened to that buggy? how much that lipo pack back then?

Was there a time before I went brushless when Hyperion wasn't the best batt around , man, i can't remember a time before high quality lipos came along!--Josh