I just tried the latest firmware update on my Mamba Max Pro.

IMO, this won't be the final update. I believe there are still some things they are working on to refine these new settings.

Stay Tuned. I'm sure we will all know when this is perfected. :yes:

I like the idea of torque control (although I still don't see how it could truly accomplish it without a current sensor), but after seeing people say the startup and low speed running is not as smooth, I think I'll wait...

I have installed it on my MMP and have not noticed any change in startup or any cogging at all. reverse is working fine. I have NOT yet tried the new features and i am running sensored motors. so for what it's worth.. no issues on MMP with sensored motor.

That does make sense though since the startup algorithm is completely different in sensored vs sensorless...

I thought so too, and nobody had mentioned sensored motors.. so I did.

:LOL: i thought that too

Question:

Is the amount of torque control also based on throttle? So if you apply 50% vs. 100% throttle from a slow speed you get different amounts of torque instead of it being the same (assuming <50% throttle would normally trigger the torque control otherwise)
. If not, it's just a thought. Haven't actually tried the software yet.

It would be really nice to know exactly how this torque control feature works behind the scenes. There are sooo many questions that could probably be answered by more people here if we knew the nuts and bolts of it...

Torque Control without a current sensor?

This is where we get into how they are doing it. LOL

Could this be accomplished with a built-in lag time for motor rpm increase?

I'm picturing a X-Y Graph, where "ON" time FET switching is only allowed to increase as RPM increases.

How linear this is, is controlled by the torque setting.

Always before, As soon as emf stated the rotor was in position for the next phase, the next phase was switched on.

Picture, miliseconds worth of "lag time" being inserted here. The amount of the lag time, along with actual rpm increase, controlling the rate of FET switching increase.

Thoughts?

The lag time increase sounds a lot like how punch control works, except instead of integrating throttle input, they are making it a function of sensed rpm. Interesting.

Yes, but Punch Control simply works off a timer. Even the highest Punch Control setting still allows full throttle AND full Amp Draw.

The Torque Control Setting will influence Total Amp Draw and Acceleration all the way up to Top Speed.

Actually, I'm sure it's going to affect Top Speed since that is a result of total amp draw.

This really is a new twist to variable frequency FET switching.

Rather ground breaking if you ask me.

Way to Go Castle!

Not sure what is causing it but I noticed something strange when I tried torque control for the first time tonight. First let me give you my setup. Hyper10sc, neu 1509 1y, MMPro(Had to add a cap to rx to help with hesitation at take off), Futaba 3PM 2.4 Gig, 2s lipo 5000mah 30c.
What I noticed with the torque control set at 5 is that there is an inconsistent, almost stutter at randon times. I tested the truck in the street so I could see what was going on and it would sorta hesitate at random times. Almost like a gasoline engine that has a miss or contaminated fuel. This didn't happen everytime while acclerating, I would say 60% of the time. I didn't test it long but enough to notice the strange occurence. I will take it to the track on wednesday night and will be able to compare my lap times to previous weeks.
With torque control set at .2 top speed was maybe 3 mph and with it at 10 torque control seamed almost non existent. I tried this just to get a feel for how it works.
Alvin

I found the same issue today in my son's hyper7. Intermittent stutter. I'm using 4s1p A123 with the MMPro and LRP 2500(2000kv under load). 0 timing and torque control set at 4.5.

You know what else would be great? If we could set a value where the toque contol would not functon past a certain rpm so it wouldn't work over, say, half throttle. This way it wouldn't affect top speed.

Better yet another curve that we can manipulate based on throttle position.

Speaking of Torque Control...
 

Hi Guys,

While we're on the subject, I have a Mamba Micro Pro/CM26 combo that I'm very happy with. However, I can't seem to get it to run the kv test to set up Torque Control. My situation is this:

Throttle range just calibrated.
ESC off, no battery connected.
Motor dismounted from truck.
ESC firmware 1.28, castle link 3.255.

Procedure:
1. Plug ESC throttle cable into Field Link Card, card into computer via USB (XP SP2).
2. Castle Link software correctly identifies ESC and reads out settings.
3. Check "Perform Required Motor Test" box in power tab, change torque control setting to 1.0.
4. Click "Update" button.
5. Settings appear to be written to ESC successfully.
6. Unplug throttle cable from Field Link card, plug back into throttle channel on Rx.
7. Turn Tx on, make sure throttle EPA is at max.
8. Turn ESC on. Normal arming sequence proceeds.
9. Run to full throttle. Motor spins up normally.

At this point, it seems like the ESC is just operating normally rather than being in test mode. It's hard to tell looking at a bare motor, but it acts like all my settings were correctly written, I can run forward and reverse with the right lockout setting, etc etc.

Do I have something wrong in the procedure? Anyone else had this happen?

Thanks! I sent an email off to Castle support about this, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to debug a beta firmware for me. I'm a software engineer, so I understand that one... :whistle:

We have noticed this too -- Richard is working to determine the cause.

He's also tweaking the startup -- torque control (when set to low values) can mess a bit with the startup.

We expect to have another release to address these issues in a week or two.

Thanx!

Patrick

Well, torque control doesn't affect top speed at all. Unless you set the torque limit so low that the motor can't generate enough torque to get to top speed... But you would have to set a REALLY low torque setting for that to happen.

Try it -- you'll see. It's very effective at limiting torque, but doesn't limit top speed (at reasonable settings...)

Patrick

I have used firmware 1.24 for a long time (since release) without issues.
I upgraded to 1.28 yesterday and tried to calibrate the motor kv (its in an e-revo brushless 2200kv) it gave a reading of ~6200kv:surprised: Twice.
Then I just wanted to run my truck with my friend so I disabled torque control and I noticed that the motor control at start was Terrable:neutral:.
I went back to 1.24 and it was as smooth as can be.

Any ideas why 1.28 had much worse starts and the torque control calibration was so far off?:neutral:

Previous posts:

"The Kv test reports Kv as electrical Kv. So it will show "true" Kv on a two pole motor. Your 1600Kv motor is a 4pole, so it will show exactly double the "real" Kv. So, with timing (as programmed) the Kv of your motor is about 1900."

Just when I want to upgrade I can't find my Castle Link anywhere.

We know there is a startup issue and a 'tic' issue (hesitation) when using torque control... We will have a follow-up in about two weeks.

This release was more of a public testing release for the torque control.

We'll have a new release in about two weeks.

Thanx!

Patrick

This new firmware upgrade has me wondering some things:

#1. Since Torque is being controlled, will the amp spikes be tamed in proportion to the Torque Setting?

#2. Will there be an efficiency gain by running higher Voltage and taming the setting for how the motor is controlled?

Example:

Castle Neu 2200kv on 6S versus Castle Neu 2200kv on 4S

The 6S setup is "tamed" with torque control and throttle limiting to mimic the performance of the 4S setup. But the 4S setup is set to "all out" performance. Both setups geared the same in.......ummmm........let's say an E Revo.

The switching of the fet's on the powerboard will still conduct the full pack voltage, only the "off" time will be longer than the "on" time with 6S, compared to the 4S setup.

#3. I'm also wondering if these "tame it down" settings would allow using higher kv motors on higher than rated voltage?

Temperatures being the overall guide, of course.
This was a copy and paste job from sikeston and I would love some input on this

#1 - yes
#2 - not usually... there is some efficiency penalty when running at less than full throttle -- so if the 4S system is running a higher percentage of full throttle PWM, it will run more efficiently.

#3 -- not what it was designed for. And remember, most of the time RPM is the limiting factor with motor ratings - -and torque control doesn't limit RPM.

thanx!

Patrick

i no since i got my 2200kv castle Neu motor on saturday with the new software is having a lot of issues.

so i might have some thing wrong with the MMM. either the motor or the esc. ****ing great. i dont know what the **** is wrong with it. AHHHHHHH!

every time i drive the maxx now, its not as loose as it used to be. its doesnt sound good anyways. im scared that something is ruined yet every time i let go of the throttle the truck sounds like its grinding on something, or it flips. and when i just lightly touch the break, the truck goes into a ****ing barrel roll. WTF????

please help me!!

i just dont know what to do anymore .

i took the motor out of the truck, and the truck rolls fine, no grinding noises or anything. yet when i put the motor back in it starts grinding again.

guys, im gonna cry!!

i just dont want this truck to turn into my revo. infact im not going to let it.

could it be that there is no grease left in the transmission or the diffs?
Originally Posted by Dethspune
I know what grinding sound you speak of. I have a T-Maxx I've been converting, and with both the Novak 6.5 and the MMM, it's been doing it. Lemme guess, if you roll the truck on the ground just pushing it, it kinda lurches forward in steps and clicks n shudders as it goes through the steps?

It SHOULDN'T be the tranny, because the tranny rotates smoothly when the motor is not connected, right? I thought SuicideNeil explained in another thread somewhere that that's the difference between a slotted and an unslotted motor, those defined positions in it's rotation. Then, my guess is, that after you count the gear ratio from the wheels to the motor, that feeling is MUCH MUCH more apparent. It sounds and feels awful to me, but I've figured that it's just the way it is. Someone correct me if I'm wrong....this is exactly what is happening, yet it didnt do it in the afternoon until i went to do the new torque control setting on castle link which got me to take the motor a way from the spur gear. then i put the mototr back and did the gear mesh between the spur and thats when it sounded aweful.

theres gotta be a way to fix the sudden breaking and the grinding. with all my expierences in RC, this does not sound 100% normal at all.? there is some thing seriously wrong.

either its the Motor, ESC or the Transmission and diffs.

some bodys gotta have an idea? come on guys. help a guy out?

im still going to have to get some grease because my transmission is probley dryer then before i put the system in.
well i have the drag brake disabled and the brake it self is set at 30%. its not much braking at 10% because i have already tryed it.
and i really dont know why the problem just started all of a sudden too.

im not having flex issues at all.

that is my issue so far!!!!

Brushlesswonder...

The new software is not release software -- so it isn't put into production units. It's Beta software, for people to try out and give comments.

You can always downgrade back the previous version if you are having issues with it.

Patrick

ok, i have downgraded to 1.24 software. i hope this works. is the 2200kv motor supposed to spin in steps? :neutral:

Yes, there are 12 distinct "steps" where the rotor likes to sit, per revolution - most notable when you try to spin the rotor by hand. Is this what you are refering to?

Yes, there is sort of a lurch then go to it (I call it a sort of chop or detent). It is due to the design of the motor, it's similar to brushed. the wires are wound on iron cores but in the can instead of the armature shaft. I have a Neu 1515/2.5d, similar to your but wound different, and that is normal

Tried to race with 1.28 tonight and it was a no go. I will wait the two weeks for the new firmware. Does look very interesting though.

yes, this is what my motor is doing. so i just wanted to make sure it was fine. also is the motor supposed to be hard to turn by hand?

It will be due to the powerful magnets and motor design.

ok cool. thanks guy for all the help. i just dont want to be a pain in the ass.:mdr:

I've been off flying airplanes/helis for the past year so I've been out of it for a while, but I've got 3 MMM. Are you guys looking for anymore feedback on this beta release? or are the comments pretty much in? I had put my 1/8 buggy conversion away a year ago because the MMM and feigao 10L combo kept breaking the hardended steel shafts and the gears in the diffs. This feature sounds like what I have been looking for.

if your killing diffs with a 10l i think you have another problem..:whistle:

Need a better buggy... But this torque control should help smooth out the power on acceleration.

RD Logics SHO buggy. Maybe I do need another buggy. But this will definetly help. The 10L broke in half one of these.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RD-LOGICS-SHO-CV...item3a4a79be04
Not at the joint, but snapped it at the center of the shaft. I know the gears in the diff were stripped too at a certain point.
I'm with you guys on the 10L, but it lights up all 4 tires. I was thinking about the Castle 2200 for a while, but that would have just been overkill.

No offense, but I've never been impressed with RD Logics quality. I associated them Integy and the like...

No offense taken and I appreciate the truth. I thought it was a bit odd a 10L taking out a CVD like that especially when my Castle 2200 puts out way more torque on my 3905 emaxx and I havent broken anything yet. I'm pretty sure the steel gears in the diffs were taken out too and thats just crazy. I think I'm going to try the torque control and see if I can keep it together. If not, I'm going to strip it down and sell it off as parts.

Hey Patrick...I just wanted to say... Thanks a million!!!... I got my ESC today :yipi:.. I love the service you and your company provides for the RC community...

Thanks again
Alien

Success!!! :yipi:... everything checked out with the new ESC... I will use 1.24 until the new beta firmware is resolved.

Alien