I'm debating on whether my "next" rc should be the baja.

If I do... I'll make sure to read the :rules:

mate get the 5T, it's on my list once I move to an area more suited to running them.

The manual on the Baja's isn't too bad actually.

and they're a s#it load of fun!

Just my .02...you have been asking and re-asking this same question on multiple forums. I have read where you have recieved an answer, but you dont seem to want to hear it. I'm not trying to insult you, but it's apparent that if you want to operate within warrantable parameters, HPI's stance is you run 6S on 25T (and it appears that Castle is backing that same claim). Its either that, or run it how you want, and take your own warranty out (your wallet), which is how most of us have ran our stuff for many years.
I too have run mine with the 6S/20T, and I liked how it ran - but it was a bit on the uncontrollable side. I'd like to take some of the pep out of it - and the 25T may just do that (as opposed to 4S, which just seemed too tame for me). However, that is going to make it a PIA to run both 4S and 6S in one outing. So I need to rethink and make a commitment to one pack set up - which kinda sucks IMHO.

If you want to take the pep out of it, either gear way down or drop your voltage down from 6S. Putting the 25T pinion on it is like trying to slow down a drag racer by putting monster truck tires on it...it's just not an intelligent solution to the problem. All you'll do is increase the current draw and start potentially causing heat issues.

The whole point behind what the guys from Castle are saying is to use common sense when gearing these trucks regardless of what the manual says. This post backs that up:
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...&postcount=111

Yeah, the only time I would consider going up in the gear is by also going to much smaller tires and using for speed runs on street only. With the lighter tires and lower rollout, the motor load may actually drop. No way to know w/o testing, but I'd start with the lighter tires and smaller gearing and work my way up from there.

I m so sick of mmmv3 failing me I sold it off n trying hobbywing 150a ezrun with program card d specs looks good n price is even better

^^ That was a completely useless troll post. Thank you. Lemme guess, you are in Hong Kong and work for Hobbywing eh?

dun have to be nasty I m a customer n I was a fan of cc wen mm time, till I tried mmmv2 to v3 I hv so much disappointment. I m from Singapore not hong kong.

Your post was a troll post. "Trolling" is when you post something just to be obnoxious, and not to add any good content to a thread.

If you have had issues with the MMM V3, then you should post here about your problems, and maybe we could help you out. It doesn't do anybody anything useful to just post obnoxious inflammatory posts. ESPECIALLY when you come into my forums and start flaming my products.

I think by pep he meant the large quantity of torque. Gearing up will put more load on the motor, and may cause it to spool up a bit slower, but it is not a good idea. Maybe adding some more punch control, or some expo to the throttle channel... I guess the CC motor is just too powerful for him:rules:

I figured that's what he meant, but it's still not a good idea. Reducing the voltage to the system is a much better alternative to resolve the issue. With 6S, it's possible that the 25T on the stock tires may very well cause heat issues with the MMM. That puts it geared for 70mph without accounting for any tire ballooning.

:surprised: damn----yer killing me!!!! But, I must humbly say, that yes, it is...

Yes, my little issue is one of control as related to keeping the front tires down a little more. Yes, adjusting the punch control, and maybe playing with the EPA on my DX3 might help some too. Going to the 25T pinion should help with that some. Yes, load(s) on the motor will increase, but that is not necessarily a bad thing (insert all previously mentioned signs of a toasted motor). Until I experiment with it, I have no reason to fear it, correct?

Has anyone heard if Traxxas has any similar recommendations with the ERBL? They may not since they dont carry the warranty.

Gearing up won't reduce the "pep" like it does in brushed setups, which are very finite in their ability to produce power. The limiting factor in creating "pep" with a brushless system is ultimately the batteries. If the batteries can deliver, gearing up will make it feel even more powerful. If they can't, then perhaps re-reading this entire thread is a good idea. This "gear up to reduce torque" philosophy is old school brushed thinking and does not apply here(and can be problematic).

QFT -- Mike hit it right on the head.

Het Patrick i have and off topic question for you. Does Castle Creations employ many mechanical engineers? I would guess that you would have some, not as many as you have electrical im sure. The reason im asking is that im currently in my junior year for my Mechanical Engineering Technology bachelors and just wanted to see if there are any opportunities for work in the RC-industry.

once again im sorry for the thread-jack

We have 1 full-time mechanical engineer here at Castle, and several electrical engineers who think they can do some mechanical stuff from time to time... (one of the EEs is me.... :whistle:)

If it makes any difference I just took apart my 150A hobbywing and I must say that the mmm seems to be built much better. The screws are barely holding on the fan and it has no firmware upgrades, it also does not handle brushed motors and I have not run it at all yet. All I'm saying is that the mmm is better built and software is much better, and I dont think it will handle cheapo batteries better. BTW: It also has 30V fets x 12(http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Colla...NTMFS4833N.PDF).

I agree with mike too.

True...I had my mind wrapped around gear ratio only when I was thinking about it this morning.

Just adjust the punch control, and play with your transmitter settings...

MrMin -- are you saying the hobbywing has only 12 FETs?

The MMM has 36 of the Onsemi mosfets.

I just took another look for our friend briang(see other post). I carefully counted only two banks of 6 fets. They were placed in the same place as the 80A, but there were only 12 of them. I could not remove the heatsink - it was glued there, all visible chips were the KIA78D05F (looks like a regulator/power transistor) and a uC whose numbers were filed away. The layout was almost identical to the 80A (see briang's post) and the fan has 4 hex nuts which just screw (barely) into the heatsink..I got to find a way to keep the fan on.... The rubber seal also is useless because there is a hole there...I doubt it really can compete with the mmm, but I'll give it a try someday - it is my backup esc anyway.

36?? I only counted 18 on the MMM. Then again, I haven't taken apart my V3 for fear of damaging the warranty.

only 18 fet's....i always thinking that this beast had more than 18 fet's:whistle:

All the MMM versions have 36 FETs.

Picture of MMM without heatsinks: (Sorry -- took the picture with my phone, not very clear....)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e92/pdelcast/test.jpg

The Sidewinder has 12 FETs, the Mamba Max has 30, and the Mamba Monster has 36. I don't know how they could rate the controller for that many amps with that few FETs.

hey patrick, any 6s batteries come to mind for racing a rc8/1512 3D? currently running some neu 3200 xp's but the tech @ castle said they were a little too small.

And for those who might be interested, here is a panel of 20 MMM boards, with a single X-OUT circuit (bad circuit detected by test machines, and left unpopulated.)


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...t/IMG_0039.jpg

thanks for the clarification Pdelcast!!!!!like ive said so many time the mmm is a powerful esc:yes:

We use a lot of different batteries here with good luck, but I think everything we have used has been in the 5500mah or larger range. I'll ask Mike to recommend something for you.

Thanx!

so there not a big difference(in fet's number) between the mamba max and the mmm... why the monster it is a lot more powerfull???

Wow Patrick! :oh:

That's some really neat stuff you're doing there. I think I could just get lost on your side of the street.

I want to learn more, that's why I ask so many questions sometimes. :yes:

The number of FETs dictate the amount of current (AMPS) that the controller can handle. The Mamba Max and the Monster Max are similar in peak amp handling capability, but because the Monster has a large heat sink and fan and more FETs, it's continuous amp capability is a little higher.

The Monster is also capable of double the voltage of the Mamba Max, which doubles the power handling capability.

ALSO, the FETs are better today than when we designed the Mamba Max -- so the current version of the Mamba Max can handle more power than the original. (the number of FETs is a bit of an overkill on the Mamba Max.)

The MMM build is almost fully automated then eh? Pick and place for the bullets? I would guess you put on the heatsink and case by hand.

Actually, the bullets are placed by hand before reflow. Wish we could place them by machine, but they are through-hole and a tight fit (for current handling.) (It takes a steady hand to place them...)

Power wires are soldered by hand, cases, labels, heat sinks, fans, etc. are all placed and assembled by hand.

wow you want explanation....youve got it:yes:so the actual mamba max can handle more current...than the hold version....good i will try it on 6 cell lipo:mdr:(joke)

thanks again.Pdelcast..

dont forget guy'sjust use the right pinion and spur and see what happen:whip:

Got it, so what you are saying and what you are saying Castle is saying is to gear 6s by the manual which is a 25t pinion and forget ALL conventional wisdom on the matter.

...if you say so then thats what I will do........

I don't want to lose my warranty.

That's certainly not what I said. :whistle:


I suggested you use the smallest pinion that gives you the performance you want and isn't too hard on the batteries/motor/ESC. You can test this by checking temps during your runs.

If you see temps above what is safe (120F or so), back down on the pinion.

Smaller pinion means less load on the motor, and cooler temps, and longer life. :yes:

also the air flow in the body and the timing setting to lowest:yes:

I thought 4 pole motors preferred 10 degrees timing

Yes - this is exactly what Castle can and should say. They can't contradict HPI on here, nor should they.

FWIW, I stubbornly wanted to try 6S/25T on the Flux tonight, and after 20 mintues, I decided it wasn't worth the hassel at this point. It earned my first failing grade for it with the work required to change the pinion. Its definitely NOT a quick change situation. So if you have one, better figure out what batteries you are going to run, gear appropriatly for that, and go have fun - dont bother with different sizes of batteries assuming you'll just quickly change the pinion. There's more on that in my Flux thread in the HPI section.