+1

He is keeping his cool.

+1

Wilcox, does this mean that your other packs labeled as "True 60C" or "True 30C" mean that they are rated for 60C for one second and 30C for one second respectively?

If Maxamps is using their C rating consistently as their "1 second burst" rating, that is okay. But the word "true" is such a messy word that it really should be dropped from their marketing strategy.

Electric Dave and Thomasis
The only legitimate alternative to a graph would be to purchase ~30 different battery packs and construct a confidence interval over the results holding all other conditions constant, such as temperature, driving conditions, motor/esc, wiring, setup, vehicle. Saying that "my pack runs great!" is only worth it's weight in words and has a sample size of 1, which doesn't tell us anything really. The only substitute for intrinsic evidence (ie a graph) is empirical evidence - so start buying your batteries and let's get those results!

You do drive graphs. And an Eagle Tree logs them.

No. The 150C packs are labeled differently from the other packs as they are new cells. I have to go in and update the other pack ratings on the older packs as some of them are continuous ratings and some of them are burst ratings. This should be completed over the next couple days. All the information will be posted on the LiPo care page probably by Thursday.

Thanks,

Brandon

That's good, and a lot of work for you! But it will be well worth it to have a consistent nomenclature, mitigating future skepticism. (Most of us thought true 150c meant 150c continuous, given that true 60c and true 30c implies 60c and 30c continuous)

And wouldn't you agree that "true" is such a sticky word to work with? I mean, think of how exhaustive your evidence will be in order to prove "truth?" What if diamond carriers used "true" to describe their karat ratings? It seems like the word "true" has caused a barrel of monkeys that is just impossible to contain.

A legitimate 75C continuous battery pack would be my next purchase.

I'd really like to get hold of one off these packs for my dragster to test out that 1 second rating. 2S please.

Why not put this information on the Lipo themselves as well? This makes more sense to me if you still want to be able to compare them to the rest of the market. Would this cause too many problems and confusion with the marketing setups?




That right there is my issue with MA's rating system. Even they don't know which cells are being advertised at continuous, burst, and surge ratings. At least the rest of the market is on the same playing field for advertisement and labeling. I know this is the main reason for the lipo's being marketed at their "True" or Surge rating. Hell, if I didn't know better I'd buy the pack that's advertised at 150C versus one at 30C.


Brandon, don't take this post offensively as well. I'm merely making suggestions which would help equivocate the market as well as the consumer.

Hey I will have to say that this is a stepping stone for their company. I appreciate this information. Prior employees have been much less patient with us and have taken a path down the road to making things worse.

Thanks for the info Brandon. However I can not buy one since these were in fact not true 150c rated packs. I also am an honest person and would have held my ground and purchased a 2s pack from you all.

I do believe from your video reviews when you were with RC Car Action that you are a reasonable person and give a fair review. However I have a feeling that even you can see that this is something that would make anyone in this hobby that has some knowledge of things raise an eyebrow. I award your effort and praise you good luck in straightening out the muck of misleading information that Maxamps may or may not have been known.

Not at all. We welcome any input or ideas. I have a list of all the cell ratings, it's just something that I have to update on the site across the board for all the packs. Like I stated earlier, the marketing material for the Race Edition packs was not ready to go but I wanted to get them out for iHobby and to make it in the magazines. We will be updating all the packs on the site to show the True C ratings for every pack. We will also be taking some time to graph the packs at 60 and 120 amps continious. (I understand this is more important for plane guys but we want to have as much information as possible).

I will also be getting some more strenuous tests for you guys. We realize the burst rating is what matters in cars, and we have provided Mike and a number of other testers some packs to put to the test. The bottom line is maxamps.com wants to make the best pack. If the test results are less then great we are always on the hunt for a better cell. So far our in-house testing and outside testers have reported great results with our packs so as I get that information and results I will post up more and more.

Cheers

Brandon

Can you donate a few of your packs to BigSqid RC for the next round of their Lipo battles.

I would like to see a zippy and maxamps finally tested under the same roof.

Settle some things for once.

I second that ^^^^^

agree to that well. Great idea.

Third, fourth, fifth, and sixth it.

Read the first lipo "battle" on big squid:

Moneybags doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical though. How can you have an absolute fair shootout by excluding one of the top battery manufacturers.

Brandon: Any chance we can get a comment here as well http://rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28373

Thanks!

umm umm yeah:whip: Good point

Hey, they said it, not me.

Battery Comparison
 

I think price is a huge factor here too. Zippy, Turnigy, etc.... HUGE difference
in price between MA and Zippy. Just my 2 cents worth. Although I would like to see a match up between MA and Turnigy's best. That would be interesting.
And kudos once more for taking the trash talk in here, character is hard to find in any industry today.

Oh Snap!!!

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dcy74CG15Qk/TM...0/IMG_5068.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dcy74CG15Qk/TM...0/IMG_5071.JPG

As shown its from the R/C Car October 2010 issue. And there isn't a word about it on the website.

Here you go Zero...found it on rctech....

http://www.rctech.net/forum/maxamps-...-hk-packs.html

The price matching was discontinued. However you could still call Austin at 888-654-4450 and he might be able to do something for you.

I will address the power supply thread shortly. I have a lot of work to get done this week so please be patient with me as I post up new graphs/tests/videos/responses.

Thanks,

Brandon

I'd have to say that the power supply thread is a little overboard. Do a little work and get it for $20 (I did) - or buy a MA supply now for cheaper than you can get one with those specs anywhere else retail (as far as I know). I really don't think MA needs to defend itself over that power supply.

Yeah, the info that it was discontinued need to be on their website; after all a website is a place to dispense information... funny how that works.

There were a lot of claims made in that thread, and probably same thing seen elsewhere, about two things:

a) poor quality of cells used by others, especially overseas companies.
b) poor quality of wires.

For a), this claim has been made before. Maybe its true, maybe its not. But considering that individual cells are not labeled (discounting the fact they could be completely mislabeled) there is no real way for the average r/cer to know. If you are going to make a claim about someone else's product, you should be able to back it up. Otherwise its just an unsubstantiated opinion. Austin does say they use "A" grade cells, fine, state that on your website with the cell information. But even so, you should take the time and explain it as the average hobby person does not buy lithum cells directly so wouldn't know they come in different grades, different chemistries, etc.

He also says " You can see the details of EXACTLY how we test our packs on our website under the lipo info section.", yet there isn't anything about it on the website. Don't hide this information, make it very easily accessible from the main page; i.e. Lipo Care, Lipo Testing, Lipo Cell Info, etc. There was some decent information in that thread, but if it had been posted on the website, then you wouldn't need to keep repeating yourself.

Personally I think 8AWG is overkill, I use 10AWG myself as opposed to the smaller 12AWG which is probably fine for 2/3S batteries. Again, make a claim, you need to back it up. Here's a link (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...p?prod=ose-6rw) to the stuff I use.

I am working on all the detailed information for the site as we speak, so that will be up soon. Thanks for your suggestions, I will be posting up some tests that we have conducted and links to other third party sites that conducted test on some of the cheaper cells out there and you can see for yourself the results. I know off the top of my head Big Squid tested some cheaper LiPos and they performed poorly. I also believe rcbox.com did as well. Chat soon - Brandon

http://www.bigsquidrc.com/li-po-batt...final-results/

For 25 bucks, Zippy's performed about where I would expect them. For a price vs. performance based on that test you really can't beat them for general all around bashing. For racing? Results may vary.

RCBox.com doesn't exist, or at least not anymore. :)

I believe it's called MyRCbox.com these days- there are various lipo articles there but I see only a link to the BigSquid lipo shootout just taking a quick glance. I would love to see a list of tests carried out by other sites and site members, currently they are scattered around and hard to locate..

Sooo how do the turnigy nano tech cells compare to these max amp race edition cells.Rated "a" to"e".

Good question?
 

Thats a good question. I bet they are using the same cells. So how is the price in comparison?

http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-50...-hardcase.html

#2 according to bigsquids test. Look, feel, and perform superbly. Barely lost to Hyperion in the shoot out.

I own two and love them. How can you go wrong.

Brandon, it is things like that that are the no brainers in this industry.

I wish I could have a no brainer purchase from a reputable US company. But for one I can not afford to play with my toys at the rate of your batteries. Two, I have read nothing but bad things, so I am scared to buy something at a higher price if all I hear is that they fail. 20 dollars in and I get a failure, I do not feel bad. These things are what a consumer looks at. I am not saying that MaxAmps are bad, but even you must see this. There was, is, maybe, never was shady business practice, but I think you have the right mindset to help the company get out of this with a better looking horizon. You are already taking a better perspective to the craziness that is located in this forum.

I hope things get turning to a brighter Maxamps future and that one day your batteries are looked at as a no brainer purchase.

I don't know about comparisons........but............

I have 2 of the 2S 25C/50C 4000mah Nanotech packs pushing my E Revo around now. Alot of truck for 4000mah cells on 4S IMO..............

They have ALOT of punch..............come out only slightly warm and balance perfectly everytime. In fact, I'm not balancing them because I want to know how many runs before they do need balancing.

My E Revo setup is:

MMM ESC
CC Neu 1518 geared 24/52 (about 40mph before the tires balloon)

I'm considering a pair of 3S Nano techs so she can show me some 6S power with this motor.

Note: If Maxamps wants to "cut me a deal" on a pair of 2S 6500mah packs, I WILL post an open minded review here for RC Monster Members. No, I'm not calling to talk to Jason or Austin. If interested, send me a PM here.

Note #2: I'm not paying a Bazillion Bucks.

Thats the thing.
 

You see Brandon thats the thing here. People are willing to give Maxamps a second chance now that there seems to be a renewed face for us to deal with, but Maxamps has to offer something worth taking a chance on considering your new claims. There have been some serious trust issues with Maxamps for the last couple of years over bad packs, personality issues, and poor warrenty services, and just putting a sticker on your new packs stating (TRUE 150C) isn't going to open the flood gates with consumers. If your prices are more than ten percent higher than your competitors, then why would any of us take a leap of faith considering the company's past? If you really want people scrambling to get their hands on your new Race Ready packs, then some distance needs to be made up through proof of your "C" rating claims, more competitive pricing, and improved customer services.

For some reason I don't like the idea of "give me a free lipo and I will test it for you" such as the bigsquid lipo battles. There is a bias to this that none of you are thinking of: Companies can test their packs and make sure they send you their best pack.

Now if you buy the battery pack normally (and in the case of Maxamps, use their 30 day money back thing) then the company will have no reason to assume you will test and publish pack performance and thus they are more likely to send you a regular pack.

When it comes down to something like batteries, you shouldn't tell the company to send you some free batteries for testing because they will just send you some super cracked out batteries.

A solution would be to buy the battery normally and then ask the company to buy your battery back after the test. But then the poorest performer probably won't pay you back.

Not a bad idea...

I would suggest that any reviewer just find pics of the lipos online, using google pic search and then rate the packs on how nice the label is. Much simpler and cheaper, and would avoid any cost or need for free packs.

Best idea yet, you can all thank me later.

Ask, and you shall receive.

COMPLETE SUPER IN DEPTH LIPO COMPARISON!

Turnigy-
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...T5000-2-20.jpg
Pros-
Sweet graphics on the numbers
"High Discharge Lipo Battery"
Large Label with lots of numbers and words!
Cons-
Boring Blue

Probably one of the better batteries out there, this pack has a label that covers almost all of the front face of the pack. The label has detailed graphics and lots of stuff going on. More stuff going on = more power in the pack.

Hyperion-
http://www.xc-rc.com.au/images/HP-LG325-2100-XX.jpg
Pros-
It's neat and organized... I guess... :neutral:
Cons-
Boring
Boring Blue color
Label does not take up the whole pack

Probably the worst battery you can buy. It's shrunk in boring blue heatshrink and has a tiny little label on it, and it doesn't even say anything about "super high discharge" so it obviously sucks.

Thunder Power-
http://www.modelflight.com.au/images...2250-3sp45.jpg
Pros-
LIGHTNING ON THE PACK OMG OMG
45 C in BIG letters
Lots of colors
Cons-
Clear on the sides, who wants to see a battery?

IT HAS LIGHTNING ON THE PACK! Nothing beats this pack, nothing. Lightning can produce 300000 amps! Thats like a true 27000c rating! Put this in your car and your motor will probably explode!

Maxamps-
http://www.maxamps.com/prodimages/65..._74_medium.jpg
Pros-
"Race Edition"
True 150c is the biggest number ever printed on a pack!
Sweet graphics on a big label
Cons-
Fire on the pack, lipos don't mix well with fire

The second best battery, right after the thunder power. It has the biggest C rating ever posted on a battery, and it has true on it too so you know they aren't lying! Plus it's a race edition so it's better for racing than the other, non race edition batteries.



This ends my completely unbiased, well documented, and very in depth analysis and comparison of 4 major Lipo packs used in the hobby to this day. I hope I shed some light on any confusion you had on your future battery purchases.

this is the best post ever:rofl:


now you know freezy

:lol: That's a great comparison!

RAOFLMAO, Good job !

I agree
 

I have to agree with this one. The MaxAmps pack is surely the best looking Lipo in the bunch, which has to mean that they are the very best for our money. We should all rush right out and get a few packs, right?