Riko, after reading your posts I can tell you were looking for a chance to call us dumb Americans, and start an argument. You posted it must be an historical thing twice trying to get a rise from some one. Auto 5 light 12 Thanks for the shot gun belgium, and I decline your thanks riko! This thread was'nt to bash the US.What is a troll again?

Not when there are pellet holes in the pigeon :tongue:

Rnemhrd, to avoid misunderstanding and flaming in what is still a civil discussion, I want to say that I am not searching or waiting for certain reactions of Amercians so that I can pick at them....this is not the case, okay?
I hope you can believe that, because if I was searching for a pick or a laugh, than I would already be calling you a dumb american since you are giving me the chance with your reply, you are actually the one starting an argument...
But I am not doing that now, it was a good and civil discussion about, health care, politics, and visions. So lets stay adults in this and prove that you can be too.

About my posts, I know what I was saying at first, and at certain times somebody said something that I thought I had to react, and it turned out into a interesting discussion with mutual respect.

So again, pls don't let this be the beginning of a flaming or a "you vs me" or a "US vs all the rest" -discussion, because than I will ignore it, it's not worth it.
And maybe you got some kind of impression of me (wrongly) because I seem the be the only non US member to discuss here :) besides the Australian member :)

And why that provoking rhetorical question? are you trying to start a flaming with that troll thing? just don't...because you are kinda confirming what you are judging me of = a chance to call me dumb non-American (or troll), and start an argument :angel:

I agree with you on the mess, but I believed that a black man was not getting elected president in this country any time soon, short of what happened in the previous administration. I think that knowing what he now knows, if he had the choice of being president in this mess or not being president at all, he would choose president (as would most people who would run for that office).

:lol:

if he would know then what he know now and he still wants to be president, than that can suggest that he is a very determined man :) wich is a good thing in that office of course.

Dnd why did you think that a black man would't get elected president in the current US?
Did you vote for him ? (just curious :smile:)

I take it that you like Michael Jackson, given your choice of signatures?

He was a child molester, right? I wonder if nationalized health would cover someone like him, if he hurt himself during "the act"? Hopefully not, as I would not want to be an "accessory" to child molesting. (Cause I paid my taxes and they went towards medical help for a child molester). I do not agree with child molesting, and think that those people do not deserve to be part of our civilized society. But I do not think the Obama health care plan has any provision to limit care to child molesters.

Just kinda thinking out loud here... Nationalizing any sort of business always brings up alot of moral questions. Since you are taking away the ability for a single person to make a business decisions, and giving it to a group of "sub par" democrats, you loose the focus quite a bit. I do not have much trust in politicians, as they generally seem to keep their interests in mind, and not mine...

Not really black, he is a mix, and his "black" is from Kenya. So he is more like a foreigner. Not sure if the "black" thing is relevant, but his decisions are what i question...

And I did not vote, kinda hard when you are british. I do know alot of people who decided not to vote due to the poor selection. And there were alot of false votes for Obama, look that up...

In fact I did vote for Obama. If conditions weren't right I didn't think he would get elected for racial reason. Just based on my personal experiences and observations. As for whether or not it's a good thing he's in office, only time will tell.

I just had a discussion about Michael Jackson the other day, how convenient :)
And I will say here what I said then: that guy has changed music forever, his songs, his dances are just awsome, he is a legend. Can't deny that.
Childmolestor or not, in what he did, he was one of those rare talents.

Ow and euh, I don't know what you understand under "justice" but you are innocent until proven otherwise and he was judged by a court...not guilty. Maybe you have no faith in fair trials or maybe your faith in your national health care system is bigger than in your judicional system, but he was proven not guilty by a court, right?

anyway, to answer the question: if you are hurt than you must be aided, that is the main principle.
Personally, if I know a childmolester is hurt by doing his deed, I wouldn't help him, I'd let him bleed and suffer! And maybe the nurse in that situation would think the same if he know what happend.
But when somebody is dying and bleeding or whatever, you do not ask first: did you get this from molesting a child, you first help him!

Is that really your vision? ask first and help later? :oops:

I think you are missing the greater picture if you link Health care with child molestor dude.
Child molestor are a fraction (tiny) of society, and you would cancel a system like that because of the fear that a few child molesters are getting medical help? lol don't you think you are thinkin illogical now?

+ if the justice system is good, than those child molestors would be in jail and they would be outside the social system..


PUBLIC healt care, the word PUBLIC means: for the public, the general public, all the people. That is the whole point of the system :)

You would vote republican clearly.

And Bush his first term victory was false, that is a fact, but Gore chose not to go in appeal.

But what you say about Obama is new...it's like you really dislike the new wind of change going on in the States?

My friend, it sounds like you live in a black and white world. I happen to live in the big grey area in between. I guess we can just agree to dis-agree... Have a good one.

you are the one living in a non compromised world my friend :)

reread your post again

i would just like to emphasise my apologies and mistake of the original 4 word post that started this argument/heated discussion.

REALLY REALLY sorry guys!! seems like the problem with forums is you cant read 60% of what's being said because of lack of body language :sad:

No worrys SJ.
Sooner or later someones panties are gonna get bunched up talking about things of this nature, shiz happens :neutral: