You continually confuse "set in your ways" with experience and knowledge.

Thank you
 

Thank you for pointing that our for him. The only thing he had right were the words free logic. Being logical is free thinking, but you have to have an open mind and at least half a brain to reach reasonable resolutions. Everyone is so quick to point their finger at BP blaming them for the whole mess. While they will more than likely share in most of the recovery costs and cleanup effort it will eventually be us the consumer who will bare the brunt of the fallout as this matter moves forward. Once BP gets through this they will conspire with all of their brother oil companies and raise oil prices so that the majority of this disaster comes out of our pockets. BP is already taking steps as a company to buffer this issue by removing the CEO and moving people around to make it look like they agree with us on the subject. That 20 billion dollar slush fund will disapear faster than you will believe and once that is gone BP will lawyer up and refuse to continue paying $$$$$ out to Americans looking for recovery funds or a free handout for those just trying to milk the issue to get ahead.

My stand is still that if we were not so dependant on OIL none of this would be happening. We as a nation need to get to the point of power independance and stop giving these oil companies our money. That will only happen if we the people stand up and force Congress and our Commander & Chief to pour all of our resources into alternate renewable power sources like solar, wind, and hydro electric power. The way our nation is running right now we need that oil and BP and all the rest are going to do whatever it takes to make it happen. All of it comes with inherant risks whether we like it or not.

That well is still spewing oil into the Gulf and their solution is drilling two more wells into the middle of the one that is already leaking and try to tap into it half way down below the surface. how well do you think that is going to work, and what if the cause even more leakage? Then we will have oil coming out of three holes instead of one. Every single thing they do at 5000 feet down is risky as hell and you can be sure that none of it is good for us. They already proved to the world that they do not know what they are doing, and we are letting them drill two more wells 5000 feet under our ocean. how smart is that?

Is that the type of alternative power that has been surpressed by the oil companies for the last (?) years? The same type of oil companies that colluded with tyre companies to buy up all the local corner shops they could afford to buy and close to make people get in the car and go to major shopping centres? What your saying is spot on but unless we all dump our dodge rams (sorry JT) and take scooters to work the gov't will still enjoy the tax they get from petroleum.

Nobody will admit we are right where they want us. We consume it, so they will provide it, backed by gov't taxing it. This seems to me nothing more than a green issue for the gov't. They need to be seen to make an effort but if they are as switched on as Jerry they will help BP salvage what ever oil so it can be taxed.

Solar energy back to the grid doesn't raise revenue neither does wind power (as much as there is in gov't). So I reckon it's partly the oil companies surpressing the alternative energies and the gov't is letting it happen because they haven't found an equivelant tax to replace what they will lose.

Hey Jerry, sorry about that, I was a little drunk last night and decided to visit the forum, I don't think I even knew what I was looking at, clear head tells me that the comment was simply out of line and misdirected, and you are right, I haven't been reading the thread, been away all week.

:oops:

On the subject of alternative energies, you really do have to blame the oil companies, they are in bed with each other to keep all other energy sources at bay, and to suppress truly advancing tech. In the US alone, there are over 5000 high tech patents that are under 'gag order', in the area of 'exotic energy', just use your imagination what comprises those 5000 patents. Even technology we have available isn't being used, it would have make a huge difference if we overhauled the entire system, orders of magnitude more efficient, much better quality of life, etc.

Industrial complex anyone?

No offense taken - I actually feel a slight guilt thing every now and then. Goes away once I hit the G Pedal!!

Wouldn't that be akin to blaming the dealers for our drug problems? The US has spent billions trying to stop the supply, but it has gotten them nowhere. You have to stem the demand before you can stop the supply.

The whole thing is just sad...
 

If you want a little laugh, and a little cry, you have to watch this clip from the Daily Show. We've been arguing this for decades and we've manged to go nowhere on Energy.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future'>An Energy-Independent Future<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:312470' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Yeah well seeing as they spend billions on suppressing this technology, THEY are the ones keeping us in the dark...

What do BP and the Banks Have In Common? The Era of Corporate Anarchy
 

by Gonzalo Lira


On the occasion of the BP oil spill disaster, President Obama’s delivered an Oval Office speech last night—a masterpiece of milquetoast faux-outrage. The speech was all about “clean energy” and “ending our dependence on fossil fuels”. Faced with the BP oil spill—likely the most severe environmental disaster ever—this was President Obama’s response: Polite outrage, and vague plans to “get tough”, “set aside just compensation” and “do something”.



President Obama missed what the BP oil spill disaster is really about. Though unquestionably an environmental disaster, the BP oil spill is much much more.



The BP oil spill is part of the same problem as the financial crisis: The BP oil spill and the banking crisis are two examples of the era we are living in, the era of corporate anarchy.



In a nutshell, in this era of corporate anarchy, corporations do not have to abide by any rules—none at all. Legal, moral, ethical, even financial rules are irrelevant. They have all been rescinded in the pursuit of profit—literally nothing else matters.



As a result, corporations currently exist in a state of almost pure anarchy—but an anarchy directly related to their size: The larger the corporation, the greater its absolute freedom to do and act as it pleases. That’s why so many medium-sized corporations are hell-bent on growth over profits: The biggest of them all, like BP and Goldman Sachs, live in a positively Hobbesian State of Nature, free to do as they please, with nary a consequence.



The added bonus to this, though, is that the largest corporations have convinced the governments and the people of the “Too Big To Fail” fallacy—they have convinced the world that if they cease to exist, the sky will fall atop our collective heads. So if they fail, they must be saved—without argument, without penalty, and without reform.



Let’s take BP: British Petroleum caused the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. There were various Federal Government agencies charged with supervising their operations—but all of those agencies deferred to BP, before the accident. As a large corporation—one of the largest oil companies in the world—BP operated more or less without any Government supervision. As is emerging, because of this lax and toothless supervision, safety rules and procedures were ignored. Insane risks were taken. No safety contingency plans were drawn up.



From what some memos are saying, disaster was inevitable.



Once the accident happened, BP controlled the information it released concerning the disaster. BP unilaterally decided not to proceed with an immediate top-kill of the well—instead, BP risked a wider disaster, in order to save the oil field by drilling a “relief well”. BP’s reasoning was simple: By implementing an immediate top-kill, BP would have sacrificed the oil field (and lost its investment) in order to save the environment. BP did not do this. Instead, it tried to stretch out the process, so as to salvage the oil field (and the profits) with the “relief well”. But when it became impossible to hide the extent of the damage—when the smell of oil permeated the clear skies of Louisiana a hundred miles from the site of the spill—BP tried to implement the top-kill. We know how that ended.



Where was Authority? Where was Someone In Charge? The fact was, there was no one in charge. There was no one supervising—or at any rate, the ones who were supposed to be supervising had had their teeth yanked. And BP knew it—so they did whatever they wanted, regardless of the risks, or the costs.



Worst of all, BP realizes that, if it finally cannot get a handle on the oil spill disaster, they can simply fob it off on the U.S. Government—in other words, the people of the United States will wind up cleaning BP’s mess. BP knows that no one will hold it accountable—BP knows that it will get away with it.



No one was holding the banks accountable either. It’s no accident that American and European banks nearly went broke, but banks here in Chile sailed along smoothly: That’s because banks here are regulated up the wazoo. They literally can’t fart without an independent banking inspector supervising them, and then getting a stamped form in triplicate. When Chile’s banks went bust in the crisis of 1980, it put paid to any illusions that the banks knew what they were doing—the government bailed out the banks then, but kept them under glass ever after.



But in Europe and America, the story was the Greenspan Put. Easy Al was so convinced that the banks would “self-regulate” that he pulled the teeth of the Fed, the banks regulatory agency, and let the “free market” have its way.



With this free pass, what do you think the banks did? They went anarchic—they invented all sorts of clever “financial products” that exponentially increased risk, rather than mitigating it. We all saw how that movie ended. When Lehman busted and the credit markets froze, a slap-dash improvised “rescue package” was drawn up, then the $700 billion TARP, then Quantitative Easing, all of these efforts lubed up with a lot of talk to “strengthening the regulatory environment” and “protecting the financial markets”.



The upshot? The banks did whatever they pleased—with no supervision. And when their recklessness led inevitably to the catastrophe in the Fall of ‘08, the banks got bailed out—with no repercussions. The biggest ones even managed to turn a profit off the tax payer-funded bail-outs!



Even after the worst of the crisis—when the effects of no regulation and no supervision were clearly understood—nothing happened. The zero-regulation, zero-supervision regime continued.



This isn’t the case for people, for individuals: People are regulated, people are controlled. Individuals are supervised and limited in what they can do and say—and no one complains. On the contrary—everyone is relieved, because it protects us all from the unreasonable behavior of an individual.



As an individual, I am limited in countless ways, from the trivial, like jaywalking, to the severe, like murder. I can’t even speak up and yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater—I would be arrested for inciting a panic, the general good of avoiding a potentially lethal stampede overriding my need to express myself by yelling “Fire!” when there is none.



Curiously, individuals—ordinary people—are being supervised and regulated more and more stringently. Yet at the same time, corporations are becoming more and more free to do as they please. No one notices how strange this is—we have even lost the social framework to even talkabout regulating and supervising corporations, because too many foolish pundits equate supervision and regulation with Socialism. Yet curiously, personal freedom is being chipped away, day by day, without a peep from these pundits.



Meanwhile, the banks run amok.



Meanwhile, BP runs amok.



We can look at other industries—Big Pharma, for one—but there’s no real need: Big Pharma will fit the same pattern as BP and the banks. Get so big that you can do whatever you want, and no one will challenge you, not even the government. Carry out practices that will inevitably create a crisis—like unsafe drilling, like toxic bonds—and be confident that you will be bailed out.



Bailed out, and allowed to continue, unfettered. “Allowed” to continue, unfettered? I’m sorry, I mis-spoke: Encouraged to continue, unfettered.



This era of corporate anarchy is reaching a crisis point—we can all sense it. Yet the leadership in the United States and Europe is making no effort to solve the root problem. Perhaps they don’t see the problem. Perhaps they are beholden to corporate masters. Whatever the case, in his speech, President Obama made ridiculous references to “clean energy” while ignoring the cause of the BP oil spill disaster, the cause of the financial crisis, the cause of the spiralling health-care costs—the corporate anarchy that underlines them all.



This era of corporate anarchy is wrecking the world—literally, if you’ve been tuning in to images of the oil billowing out a mile down in the Gulf of Mexico.



I think we are at the fork in the road: One path leads to revolutionary change, if not outright revolution. The other, appeasement and stasis, as the corporations grind the country down.



My own sense is, there will be no revolutionary change. The corporations won. They won when they convinced the best and brightest—of which I used to be—that the only path to success was through a corporate career. No necessarily through for-profit corporations—Lefties never seem to quite get how pernicious and corporatist the non-profits really are; or perhaps they do know, but are clever enough not to criticize them, since those non-profits and NGO’s pay for their meals.



Obama is a corporatist—he’s one of Them. So there’ll be more bullshit talk about “clean energy” and “energy independence”, while the root cause—corporate anarchy—is left undisturbed.



Once again: Thank God I no longer live in America. It’s too sad a thing, to watch while a great nation slowly goes down the tubes.



Gonzalo Lira, a novelist and filmmaker (and economist) currently living in Chile and writing at Gonzalo Lira

Global Research Articles by Gonzalo Lira

Shows all of us how much power all those presidents have (had). Those puppets takes orders from the big dogs. Look how BP is controlling the media, police, coast guard and who knows what else.

Technology does exists to get of oil, but do you guys know how many companies (Big Companies) will suffer from it and will they let it happen?

Edit: Read the above posts and it's funny how the US has found $1 trillion in lithium (And other resources) in Afghanistan. If anyone here can put the pieces of the puzzle together, they'll get answers to many of the crap that has happened (and will most likely happen).

This is depressing!
 

I am at Panama City Beach ,FL and the oil came on shore today!
There are thousands of quarter size OIL BALLS littering the beautiful snow white beaches

I have a question that I guess I've been in the dark on. Which corporations are "corrupt", who is it that decides which corporations are "in", and what exactly is the corruption that corporation that I work for involved in? 'Cause I'm here to tell you that I really could have done without that 60 hours of training we go through every year on Business Gratuities, Trade Secrets, Proprietary info, and on and on. We started having to do this after our CEO got busted for giving a job offer to someone who had control over a tanker contract. (if it was all corrupt, why would the gov't choose to prosecute us for this??) This is in addition to all the state and federal reg's that I spend 80% of my career making sure that we are in compliance with - in regards to safety, environment, and configuration control.
And by the way, this company is one of the nations largest exporter in terms of sales.
I will agree with the theory that big business controls the house and senate. Look at what the Senator from Texas had to say about BP at the CEO's "hearing" the other day. He's clearly talking through his wallet. I will also agree that BP's decisions thus far have been based on their bottom line, not on what was best for us, the nation, and for the environment.

The US should have been johnny on the spot to take care of it, rather than letting BP try to fix it. I'd liken it to this - you have a contractor in your house working on something. His equipment starts a fire - are you going to let him figure out what to do (rescue his tools, etc prior to trying to put out the fire), or are you going to take control and get the fire dept on the way and do everything in your power to put it out. That ocean is in OUR HOUSE Obama - lets get it taken care of.

I don't think anyone can answer that straight up, but what I would say is there are still alot of good corporations out there, alot of good people in politics/law enforcement that are 'just doing their jobs'... I know for a fact their are also alot of 'high end' judges that will try and prosecute these bastards at any chance they get, doesn't happen too often though. I don't know, I would say the larger the corporation it is, the more evil and out of touch they are will humanity and our earth. Most of the biggest corps are owned by only a few, yes literally a few parents companies who have bought them out, of which these parent companies are owned by only a few all powerful familes, namely the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, Warbergs, Morgans, etc. Look them up.

That's disgusting to hear from someone directly, you see the videos and pictures, but when someone actually says it, even on a forum, makes it that much more real.


I think there might be a food shortage by the end of this year maybe, so much rain in the spring, then this, no crops, no animal feed, no meat, no sea food from that region. I don't know about you guys, but to me it looks grim. I am gonna start stock pilling some non perishable foods here, I would suggest doing the same, if it's fine,then great, but if not.... don't be sorry.

How do you see that happening?