I can't either now...

It was a photo of the 'new' TP 5300 2S Pro Race 65C/130C hardcase

[QUOTE=lincpimp;386856]C rating matters... Higher c rating should indicated lower internal resistance. If that low resistance is there and remains the pack will have a long life and produce good power. The internal resisatnace tends to go up as a battery ages (goes thru cycles) and the higher the resistance the lewss power the batt will produce. So going with the highest c rated pack (as long as it is true) will have the lowest internal resistance and hopefully last that way. Plus if you paln to run a certain output (watts) a higher c rated battery will have more headroom than a lower on will, and should perform better and not be pushed as hard, and last longer.

So C rating matters. I would rather run a 1000c battery than a 10c if all other factors (weight, size, etc) were the same.[/QUOTE

In an ideal world where there is a standard for C rating it would matter, but right now anyone can claim anything. C rating between manufacturers is almost meaningless. You cant compare a 40C ebay brand lipo with a 10C truerc lipo. The 10C truerc battery will blow it away. I think we are both on the same page when you say, "as long as it is true". I think manufacturers have a different idea of what "continuous" means, even though it seems pretty clear to me what continuous means.

[QUOTE=hemiblas;386910] Just remember, the people printing the labels in this case, are NOT the manufacturer.

I have yet to see a manufacturer dare to tippy toe beyond the 40C-45C mark.

A Manufacturer won't last long making claims they don't stand behind.

The fact is a LOT of people who buy Lipos barely know how to charge them, let alone what a C rating is, but bigger must be better right? By the time any of these manufacturers have been held accountable and/or proven that their "claimed" C rating is nothing more than sales puff bs, they've already made their money.

I see people racing VTA with 5600mah 50C Lipos, yet these cars never pull more than 30-35 amps from a standing start. A 1000km fuel tank doesn't mean jack if you're only driving to the corner store.

C rating still matters. The fact that mfgs use inflated specs is another issue.

Marketing sells stuff, who would have thunk it...!!!

And a 40c lipo is pretty much all we need at the moment. The ridiculous claims are pretty funny, I guess just because I know something about lipo tech.

I am going to ask the obviously stupid question.:whistle: Why are you guys bugging over something that has proven to be a moot point? You can't sway Newbs from buying bad batteries, at least no one listens at first. And, Now that hobbyking has a USA warehouse (In maxamps back yard no less) there is going to be less business for the established battery producers all around anyways.

Mr Wilcox, This is nothing towards you, just wondering why these guy always bug about a battery most of us might not buy. Good luck selling these batteries to this group of rc'ers

In a way it does make sense, if you got a 5600 lipo only pulling 30-45 amps, you do not need to charge it but one in the day, you can worry about more pressing needs like setup or tires.

True, but smaller batteries will weigh less and still last through the race. Weight reduction in racing is a good thing.

True but in a TC if the battery is too light, you're balance left to right is out.

I've found with my Electrics, the PQ 5050mah packs or Protec 4000mah Lifepo4 packs are the best fit (within the Roar legal battery range)

Been waiting very patiently
 

Well,

I left this tread alone for quite a while giving Brandon what I think, (and probably most of you guys think too) AMPLE time to post some more detailed info and graphs for us to see on the performance of these lipos. My decision has been made. Brandon, callin you out bud, your full of BS, nothing has changed at Maxamps, but that's just my two cents worth. I'm done with this tread.

Actually, IIRC, Arc1k posted a couple graphs of a setup using MA packs and they didn't seem that bad. I can't remember exactly what the current/voltage was though, maybe he'll shed some light on this (if it even was him)...

The BS promises of actual performance graphs began coming from Brandon's "piehole" on the 15th of last month!

We have to date............a 7.5C graph that wouldn't outperform a decent Nimh pack.

It's empty promises and more lies guys............

I give up too! Just what I thought..........

False Advertising..........False Marketing..........More Lies.......

Don't hold your breath waiting on my money Maxamps! You're way too "busy" with your Maxamps Party to be someone I want to deal with. Especially when you make promises you DON'T Keep!

Note: Brandon stops by here alot. He's keeping an eye on this thread but not posting. If you want to check this........check his last visit date on his profile. If he has time to stop in, he has time to post........and keep promises.

Poor maxamps guys, they had a little errata on their label and all the forum gets against them

Where it says "True 150C " it should say "True 15.0C "

Calling them out
 

What I would like to see is for someone in teh R/C hobby call them out in a big way. How about if they contact one of the major networks and request a spot for getting out consumer news on comparisons of Lipo technology in general. Using R/C batteries as their platform and put it all on the table for all to see.

Sounds like a good idea, but unfortunately tv stations are not going to give a crap about r/c stuff

It is sad but that is probably about that the label should say. Really makes you wonder how bad there regular packs are?

I was willing to give maxamps another chance, but this is ridiculous. True 150c, oh no I mean true 75c but I will give you a graph at 8c that doesn't even deliver full mah.

I'm sure the highest paid department at Maxamps is marketing, when you spend enough on advertising you can make people believe anything, how many magazines regularly have maxamps as "Battery vendor of the year" etc. The sad truth is, 95% of people who buy Lipos believe the hype and not the data, and are just backyard bashers who don't go too deep into it and have never looked at an rc forum.

I mean, people believed VHS was better than Beta didn't they?

Watch the news.
 

You don't watch the news much do ya? Have you seen some of the crapy stories runing lately? News stations are always on the hunt for anything new and interesting. These are the kind of stories they send out their newest reporters out on to help them learn. I bet if enough of us wrote in to RCaction magazine requesting that a comparison be done, that they would eventualy cave and get-er-done. How many comparisons have we seen in their magazine in just the last year between different Monster trucks, Buggys, short course trucks, Etc, Etc..... Some one has to take this serious enough and realize that a great injustice is being done by some of these half A$$ companies and step up to the challenge of testing and reporting on some real world specs that we can all live with.

Who really cares about graphs anyways. To be honest even if they posted graphs I wouldn't believe them. Their claims are simply bogus and that is the end of it. Even if the cells were up to it (and they are not) for a battery with pissy 12awg wires and Deans plug to be able to support the kind of C ratings (150C or 75C or what ever the reckon it is) that they advertise is just pure BS. This is a company that has time and time again lied through it's teeth and probably will continue to do so.

Rc car action .. are you serious ???? :lol:

Are you speaking about the magazine who gave Maxamps 3 consecutive "best battery of the year " price ??:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And the editor of that magazine is now marketing director of Maxamps ...

Great idea!! That will be a fair un-biased review!

http://maxamps.com/products.php?cat=285

It says 39 minutes average runtime. How do they get that number exactly? 39 minutes at 150c.. HOLY CRAP! Screw fusion reactors, let's use MaxAmps batteries instead!

So.. if I buy a pack that says 39 minutes average runtime, run it in any normal powerful setup and get an average of 20 minutes runtime, does that mean I can get my money back? Aren't there laws against false advertising? This is like Neu saying that their motors average about 60 MPH...
Also, 100% waterproof? So I can run this in my truck underwater, like in a pool? If the electrical connectors on the pack aren't waterproof (deans/traxxas/other connectors), you can't really advertise your product as waterproof. That's like advertising a waterproof camera that has an exposed battery pack and shorts underwater. Maybe I should buy a battery pack, go underwater with it, shock myself, and then sue?
I'm going to have to look into the laws of advertising, because I'm pretty sure that a lot of Maxamps' marketing tactics are shady, if not even unlawful..

It just makes me sad thinking of people inexperienced with the hobby looking in to electric cars. They see Maxamps have the best rated batteries, 3 years in a row of the "Best Battery" and claims of the best prices, etc. so they go for it and take the plunge to lipos, only to have a dead cell, or something that doesn't perform to it's rating... leaving them dissatisfied with electrics and maybe even RC as a whole. Kind of a shame, really.


On a side note, anyone want to buy this shrink wrapped duraflame log-- Err mystery battery I have here? It's waterproof, has a TRUE 175c rating, and will give you an average of 2 hours runtime. It's the best log-- err battery we have tested! I can post graphs of it's performance too if you guys just hang tight for a few days.

Guys, I found the missing graph! :yipi:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...EETMAGRAFZ.png
:surprised: Amazing!

Rc car action magazine
 

He does not own the magazine. He is an editor. You might want to look into what that means. He is responsible for making sure that the information provided is true and correct and does not get the owner sued or held liable for false advertising, or slander by making any claims that one product is better than another without proof to back up that report. Of course as the editor he does not have to prove that an ad is factual. Those are paid for by the vendors. As the marketing director he should have the ethics to make sure that what he is advertising does not put their company in hot water by making claims that are false.

The owner must decide on what stories are written and how fair and balanced comparisons are done. Otherwise they would have had law sutes from some of the RC manufatcutrers already on camparisons between different vehicles over the years. This is why I am suggesting that we all write to the magazine's owner/CEO/director or whoever runs this rag and request some testing/results on Lipo comparisons. If you want results in this matter then we have to step up as a major support group and demand some level of reality in their advertising. Or put together some level of equal, factual testing of our own that is unbiased in any way and find some varifiable truth of our own which would hold up in a law sute and do something about this. All of this bashing in someone else's private site is doing nothing to stop that maddness.

Cody
 

So.. if I buy a pack that says 39 minutes average runtime, run it in any normal powerful setup and get an average of 20 minutes runtime, does that mean I can get my money back? Aren't there laws against false advertising? This is like Neu saying that their motors average about 60 MPH...
Also, 100% waterproof? So I can run this in my truck underwater, like in a pool? If the electrical connectors on the pack aren't waterproof (deans/traxxas/other connectors), you can't really advertise your product as waterproof. That's like advertising a waterproof camera that has an exposed battery pack and shorts underwater. Maybe I should buy a battery pack, go underwater with it, shock myself, and then sue?

Funny read there Cody, but they are not claiming that some other manufacturers battery connections are water proof. Their claim is that the battery pack itself is waterproof. If you have seen some of their photos on this claim it shows a battery pack sitting in a pitcher of water, with the leads hanging out of the water. Just like we want them to provide factual proof that their ads are reality you have to be careful how you write complaints about their products. Slander goes both ways ya know.

:lol: That's actually pretty funny. Sorry Mr. Wilcox...... :oops:

Someone needs to find jayjay's original green girl/sun graph lol..

For that matter someone needs to find him, wonder if the wife killed him?

Whats the point of advertising a battery as being waterproof if they damn well know the whole thing cant be submerged because the connectors will short out, regardless of how much silicon they slap allover the actual cells? Its a pointless feature to try and advertise, just like the 150C/ 75C rating since the wires will never support that much current draw.

RCCA will never publish ( truthful ) lipo comparison results, nor will any other MA sponsored magazine or website- it's bad for business if MA packs are shown to not perform as well as they are advertised to. Common sense there.

Just like has been said a hundred times before, there needs to be some form of independent body ( like ROAR, only better ) that sets the standards for testing and rating of lipos and how that info should be displayed on the pack to let users make an informed choice; you could have a rep from all the major lipo companies give there input as to what constitutes the continuous and burst C ratings ( X voltage under Y load @ Z temp for ?? seconds ) in order that all companies adhere to the same rating system. Very simple concept, unlikely to ever happen. Until then word of mouth and user feedback will continue to determine which brands are good and which arent/ are overpriced; that may mean taking a leap fo faith sometimes to try something new, but its how the hobby, how any hobby has always been...

The connectors do not need to be water proof since electricity follows the path of least resistence. you could strip the insulation off the wires , put the "waterproof" pack and leads in water, hook a brushed motor up to the pack and put that in the water as well and it would work like normal, provided the + and - wires were not touching eachother or the motor can.

True, but try that in salt water..

It wont do the esc any good being submerged- doesnt matter how waterproof the batts are if the rest of the electronics wont normally survive a good dunking; more luck than good design if they do..

I tend to lean towards Neil on this one.

Water and electricity don't mix well because of the conductivity of the water. Water by itself (distilled water) does not conduct electricity.

It is the Mineral content of the water that makes it conductive. Heavy metals and minerals in the water allow the electrons a path of flow.

DC current flow through water equals electrolysis. This will occur at any connection that isn't completely waterproof.

I dont really think that is an issue for RC vehicles lol. I have never saw or heard of anyone complain about their deans or trx connectors shorting out because of water. Have you?

Not many people have driven their r/cs into the sea- mainly freshwater streams or lakes its mainly the esc that croaks if anything. Corroded terminals aint much fun though, but it all comes down the likely hood of someone needing waterproof electronics enough that they will happily pay over the odds for a bit of silicon to be slapped on the pack. How many of us intentionally drive though water- cant be that many..

Honestly when it comes to this I wouldn't mind ROAR stepping in. At the very least, any ROAR approved pack should be rated with the same standards. Roar can decide what load, voltage etc. As long as all packs where rated the same way it would be a major acomplishment. Maybe the rest of the batteries would wind up being rated the same even if they weren't ROAR approved. I don't care for ROAR but they do have the necessary pull to acomplish this. Plain and simple if your battery is going to be ROAR approved the C rating has to be factual and they test it themselves to make sure it meets the C rating by the guidelines they establish.

Next up, can we have ONE kind of balance tap? PLEASE!!!

Fine idea but ROAR doesn't give a shizz about C-rateings, safety and playing fair is whats most important. MA packs fit the critera since they just puff not explode.

Small pooff . I was hoping Brandon was going to come to the table with some
astranoumical graphs but i guess maxxamps has decided that it may be in there best intrest to leave this thread alone?Go figure ,I wouldnt buy a friggen double a battery from them.

Mr. Mike do you have any input on this yet?

I am not convinced that these hold any advantage over the "Others" as far as lipo's go.
Just more Corporate Hype IMO.

Wow!
 

WOW where did Brandon go to get these graphs and other info to show us how great these new batteries are, China? He must be walking, right? Whats it been a month already since the release of these packs, and promises that they would show us the beef? What a great improvement over their previous reputation. I guess sales must be going so well that he just has not had the time to provide reasonable, honest facts that can show all of us in some way that these new "Race Ready" LiPos really are what they are being advertised. Restored my faith completely, thats for sure.

Hey I have a great idea guys. Lets pull our resources together and go out and purchase some $5 cells somewhere, setup some 4S, 5S, & 6S packs, call them TRUE 500C LiPos with racing flames for wraps, and sell them for lets say 1000% markup, and just tell everyone that the specs will be out soon. After we sell about 1000 packs or so we can just be real quiet and hope that no one will expect us to follow through on any of our advertised Hype, get rich, and then continue making up false claims and advertise even more Hype for some new upcoming products. Sounds like a good company plan to me, what do you guys think?

Sorry I am just trying to think of how to get one of these executive jobs and get rich quick scemes all together in one package/job like we see on TV. Oh wait that's right, that was on that TV's "Most Wanted" show for criminal behavior. I guess it works for some though, right? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night myself. Never mind.

Graphs- Test And Data By MaxAmps.
 

Hi Brandon-
Will the graphs be ready for posting soon? I'm very much looking forward to seeing these graphs. I'm very interested in buying a set of these batteries. I'm just waiting to see your graphs first. Please post any and all data you've been working on regarding these specific model LiPo. ie Graphs, Videos and so on- all of which you have said you would post as soon as you had the time to do so. I would also like to say that you are very professional on this forum. I do hope you will continue to post information as it becomes available to you- onto this thread. I've been eagerly waiting for these graphs and videos you have been working on- and sure hope you can find the time to get these test complete and posted for us- we are all very interested.

PS. I can hardly wait to see the 75amp continuous discharge of this model LiPo. This data alone will show extreme ability.

Note: I had convert my E-Revo to a Brushless E-Revo with the same motor and esc which Traxxas uses in their model- it's the Mamba Monster Electronic Speed Control and the 2200kv Castle Creations Motor.

I was running two 5000mah 3cell 40c continuous 80c Burst Thunder Power LiPo's in series to make a 6cell LiPo- which is what the motor and esc are designed to handle as a maximum voltage. I was doing high speed wheelies through the park and the truck had enough power to pull the front wheels up at apx 50miles per hour. Testing revealed that none of the temperatures were excessive, the motor and esc stayed under 150 degrees, batteries stayed under 110degrees. Gearing was per castle creations tech support suggestions- as well as the setup of the esc.

Running the E-Revo at various different parks or even in a parking lot- is primarily where I run this model RC. I consider this my Basher RC but I don't really jump it or crash it hard- I just pull high speed wheelies and like to go as fast as possible from zero to top speed of this model. Both castle creations tech support and Thunder Power tech support told me this will be fine and the system I have will handle this aggressive driving. After a few runs at the park under the same conditions- I notice the lipos began to puff(only apx 30cycles) And not at any specific time. In other words- they slowly puffed a little more and a little more and the puffing did not go down. I called Thunder Power and they told me I was overdischarging the lipos. I told them I have the LiPo cutoff set to 3.5volts per cell and that I do not run the truck to the point of LiPo cutoff. Jim of Thunder Power explain to me that the motor can also overdischarge the batteries by pulling to many amps. I then called castle creations and they confirm that this system only draws 125amps max. And a 40c continuous LiPo well exceeds this. I called Thunder Power back and they explain in great detail that 1/8th scale buggy is the hardest class of RC on batteries. And that They have to send a new set of lipos to their team drivers about every three months, consistantly. And that lipos raced in 1/8th scale hardly ever last beyond 7 months because of the severe conditions.

I was quite shocked to hear all this because I had thought Thunder Power lipos to be among the best lipos made. And knowing that these lipos by thunder power are under a one year warranty- and Jim telling me that these lipos rarely if ever last 7months- made me wonder why they were not offering to replace my less than 1year old thunder power lipos. In fact- this seem to qualify anyone running 1/8th scale for a warranty replacement after 7months of use(Jim assured me that this goes for all high end LiPo's). I called castle creation tech support and they said it sound like the batteries could not handle the 125amp continuous amp draw I was pulling from the batteries when I would pull a full speed wheelie across the entire field of the park- which could very well take about 5 to 10 seconds at full throttle, or full 125amps continuous, or as castle tech support said- apx 100amps continuous. I imagine MaxAmps is aware that 80% of the RC industry is support by non racers- and people that never go to a track. But rather buy an RC and race it up and down their street(often at full throttle). I happen to do both. I race 1/8th scale buggy which I agree those burst amps are useful to know. But in consideration of the 80% of what these batteries may very well be used for- which is wide open full speed ahead- how fast can I go for how long- those continuous amps sure come in handy. I don't think it hurts to show both the continuous amps and the burst amps. The more information we buyers have access to is the more informed we are. And information on the product is something every racer and basher can appreciate. As for my E-Revo, I've not run it ever sense I found out the batteries could not handle the wide open full speed across the entire park- runs I was doing. I can't tell you how many people would run over to me and ask me where they could buy one of these. And how many dogs chase my RC as well. Many people said they would buy one just to give their pets exercise chasing the RC :)

Note: Brandon- do you think based on the information I provide- I could run 2 6500mah 3cell 150c lipos(in series= one six cell)in my Brushless E-Revo wide open across the entire park which is about the length of three football fields length wise? Without puffing the LiPo's? I've modified the battery boxes so the 3cell 6500mah lipos will fit right in. I just need to know if you think these lipos can handle apx 125amps being drawn from them over the course of apx ten seconds, and then turn around and do it again and again until the lipos are at the 3.5volt per cell LiPo cutoff point- or just before the LiPo cutoff kicks in? Thank you Brandon. I very much look forward to your response.