home audio questions
 

wutup guys. so some of you may know i recently got a bunch of stuff for my room and im lovin it:lol::intello::intello::intello:

this is the home theatre set i bought

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1184369167013

i switched the little subwoofer for one of my bigole kicker 12s and DANG what a difference.

i know it can be pushed WAY harder because i had it in my truck but i think it is OK for my room.

i also added 2 bigole audioline towers for the back of my room. i really hope im not pushing the amp but

how can i tell?

is there any way i could improve the bass?

is there a limit to how many speakers and stuff i can add?

willl the amp regulate the power throughout it all?

like for instance..... if its pushing 200 watts each tower. 400 total. and then i add 2 more will it then regulate the power so that each is only pushing 100? but still at 400w?

or how does that work?

to connect everything all i did was put the normal wires in the towers. but then added one other set that ran over to the second set of towers. is this ok? is there a smarter/better way to do it?

so far i really like what ive done.

its freakin loud as hell and i cant turn it up all the way without it hurting my ears.


some of you may think im stupid for adding all this stuff but you have to realize how big my room is. and the 2 little surround speakers werent enough for me.:oops:

its like the size of a garage... (theres a long story on how i got it... but it used to be the game room)


mmm i think thats about it for now...

was the sony theatre system i bought worth the money?

thanks!

Well, try increasing the db setting for the woofer. I would personally get a second amp and run the woofer separate

Don't know how the amp(s) are set up in that speaker system. The amp is probably an IC-based style (not discrete components) inside the reciever unit. And don't count on a real 1000w total - it's probably rated "peak" which is at least twice what it should be rated for (rms).

The speakers are matched to the amp used. You can use other speakers instead, but have to maintain the correct impedance. Most home speakers are around 8ohms. Simply adding another set of 8 ohm speakers in parallel will reduce the impedace to 4 ohms. This should create twice the power, but the amp will probably either cut out or thermal. If you want louder volume from your main speakers (not the sub), you'd have to get more/different equipment.

If you just want to add more bass, you can probably add a powered subwoofer. You can get a pre-built one, but if you already have the kicker sub (and a box to put it in), you may be able to use an add-on "plate amplifier" to power it. Just make sure you get one that has the power you want at the subwoofer impedance your kicker has (probably 4 or 2 ohm).

ok i got what your saying.

i am not going for more volume. i have PLENTY of it and will never max it out. i am mainly looking for bass i guess you could say.

when im alone i put it on about 25-30 max is around 33 i beleive.

right now im only listening to it at 12. and its fine.


the whole reason i got the extra towers was because the size of my room needed more surround sound you could say.

now. no matter where im at i hear it and it sounds clean. so im pretty much good with that.

just dont wanna blow the amp.

i think i will be ok because it was maxxed out for about an hour and it didnt feel hott at all.

one of my freinds knows alot about this so ill talk to him about the plate amp.

thanks alot!

We just got that system this past weekend. I think it's great. I have to get a picture of our setup.

If you want to upgrade someday without spending $1000s... check out Paradigm stuff. Their stuff really sounds awesome for a relative bargain price imo. I have a real basic surround setup from them for under $1000 (including a great $400 band pass sub)... it's entry-level for them but to me it sounded better than anything I listened to at places like BestBuy, Ultimate, etc even at 2-3X the price.

I'm not an audio junkie.... car or home.... but I love my little home theater system.
Paradigm Titan speakers and Yamaha reciever

+1 for Paradigm. They are fantastic speakers for the money.

You should just get a powered sub. I got a 12" Polk Audio powered sub for only $100 at Frye's Electronics. It's got more than enough bass.

yep, a powered sub, then you can turn the bass down on your full range speakers, letting them play louder, and just turn up the bass with a powered sub, also, your system has alot of power going to your kicker, could step up to a 15", but i'd rather get a 15" powered sub and just turn the knob when i wanna vibrate things, some subs even have a remote!

I use a 15" kicker sub in my home entertainment system. It's power by a seperate amp. You could do the same thing with the 12" sub you have, using the plate amp that BrainG suggested. You want to build a down firing sub in a sealed enclosure. The distance between the woofer cone and the floor should be around 10-12". Putting the box in a corner "amplifies" the output some more. Firing in down onto a carpet floor works best too. Less sound reflections. If the box is stiff enough, it can be used as a corner table. If it vibrates too much, just add a marble slab on top and you gain some more output and nothing will vibrate off of it.

Ok, I said too much again..

Just use the kicker sub man.

For proper sub placement (or rather, what sounds best to you), a common trick is to put the sub where you normally would sit, play some music at the volume/bass setting you'll be normally listening at, and then walk around the room and see where it sounds best. Once you find the right spot (assuming it is physically possible), put the sub there. Generally, room corners will amplify the bass (standing waves), but tends to sound boomy and not well defined. Some people like this, others don't.

Don't skimp on amp power. It's better to play 300-400w through a 200w sub if the signal is clean, than to play a distorted 200w through a 200w sub. An amp will theoretically double it's output power during full clip, and the speaker has a hard time to respond to such a sharp signal ramp (clipped sine-wave looks like a square wave) so it has less back-EMF to reduce the current flow. Also, the headroom from higher power is nice to have. Better to have it and not use it, than to need it and not have it. I've been running a "clean" 600w rms through a 300w rms sub in my car for over 4 years now and it still sounds perfect.

Generally speaking, the advice given so far is on the money. A powered sub with built in crossover is the way to go for your fronts. AND you did the right thing by getting an extra set of towers for your rears (I assume they are identical to the RL and RF?). Timber matching the complete set is the "proper" way to set up surrond sound. And no, just haveing the same brand of speakers does not mean they are timbre matched. They need to be the same size drivers and performance specs to be numerically matched.
I run 4 Definitive Technology Mythos 4's with a Mythos 8 center and an M&K 1000W sub.

wow,def tec! remember the bp2000's with the built in 18" powered sub? awesome......

The only trouble with integrated towers/sub is placement. Tower placement is critical while sub not so much. And often, what sounds good for mids/highs does not sounds as good for the sub. Better IMO to have seperate sub and towers. Cross the towers and sub over a no higher than 80Hz (high pass) with a 12db/octave slope (minimum) for good midbass response and to keep the sub from playing frequencies that degrade imaging.

lets remember his setup, he has 285 watts coming out of his reciever for a sub, so that means he doesn't need a plate amp, and yes, a powered sub is the easiest solution. I assume your kicker is 4 ohms(most car subs are) so you've proven your reciever can handle 4ohms. you could step up to a 15" woofer, or run two 12" 8 ohm subs in parralel, a couple more efficient speakers splitting the power would give you more volume. I guess we need more info. Do you want a cheap solution, an easy solution, or the right solution? I personnaly would put the kicker back in the car, run no sub off your reciever allowing it to only run mids and highs, and get a big ole 15" powered subwoofer, a cerwin vega, with the red surround, that will shake sh@! off of walls

Here ya go...this will solve your low-end issues Click Here :mdr:

so much information in so little time.

i cannot handle it:lol::lol:

anyways...

um i dont really knwo what to say.

im going to look into those plate amps...

hey t-maxx, glad you got your set-up running. Sorry I wasn't around last weekend to help you out. Anyways, a powered sub does sound like a good route, but I'd choose a smaller 10" woofer for your room. Those larger 12" and 15" woofers are meant to fill extremely large rooms and home theaters (the real ones with movie seating and 600sq ft + of room). I'm sure one of the electrical engineers can explain it better, but it has to do with the low freq those larger subs operate at. They hit loudest at a distance of 15-20 feet away... or more. If your room is really that big, then... great! I feel sorry for your neighbors. lol.

Also, you should check out some different receivers for the future. The systems normally found in best buy are good for first time HT buyers since they are generally user friendly and bundled in "all-in-one" type set-ups. But as you become more of an audiophile, you'll want to look into Denon, Harmon Kardon, JBL, onkyo, nakamichi, mcintosh, and so on (without going over board on $$$). I started with a samsung system back in 1998. It was also my first, and I liked it a lot. I thought it was awesome until I bought a Denon component system a few years back. The difference was night and day.

you only need space to play low frequencies, no radio music has or any store bought cd's (except for bass specific cd's) play low enough to warrant that large of a room, however, a bigger woofer has a larger cone area and will play louder than a smaller woofer, he says he wants more bass than a single 12" with 285w gives him, so a smaller woofer is not the answer. A subwoofer is just a fancy air pump, move more air=more bass bigger woofer=more air moved. A plate amp is just an extra amp to only power the subwoofer. You'd still need a non-powered (passive) subwoofer. It's easier and cheaper to buy a powered subwoofer rather than an amp and a subwoofer.

Not only is it easier to buy a powered subwoofer, it'll sound better as well. As good as some car audio subs are, they are nowhere near as good as those designed specifically for home theater/audio.

cabinet design has alot to do with that, i've built boxes for car sub use in a home and they sounded great. they are after all, just speakers and don't know wheter they are in a car or in a house. it's the downfall of many a speaker, not putting it in a proper enclosure.:lol:

You are correct, he did say "More" - not "Better"......

Smaller woofers will give crisper, more accurate and cleaner sound, especially when driven by high power. The REL line http://www.rel.net/of subs is widely considered one of the best out there, and I dont believe they have any over 10", but they are running gobs of clean wattage (true rms values) in a small space. If you want your house to shake on a budget, then bigger with less power will do that. If you want to invest in the future (if that can even be considered with todays electronics market), get a smaller high powered one, then down the road, add a second or third sub to the system. My first one was a 1XX watt Yamaha Dual Driver sub, that actually did quite well. I picked it up at a demo sale for a little over 100 bucks. Its nothing compared to what I run now, but it was a great place to start and learn what I liked in my theater.

Yes, I almost went with the BP line, but I personally preferred the crisper sound of the Mythos Line - and they fit behind our couch better for the rears.

so what are you guys saying?

dont buy that plate thing? buy a powerd sub?
idk

alot of what you said went right through my head because it made no sence.

Hi t-maxxracer
Most of my audio stuff is very high-end but I built my subs, and they sound very good. They are designed to maximise quality not quantity but in you room they will be LOUD.
http://www.customanalogue.com/sub_index.htm is the place to start. Read first, and check out competing designs but these sound good to me. Have fun and don't believe anyone else's ears!

you only need the plate amp if you want a seperate amp and seperate sub, the powered sub is all in one and much easier and much cheaper, but if you are a millionaire and want a balls out setup, seperate components are the way to go.

And the only reason I mentioned the plate amp is because it seemed like you wanted to use the kicker sub and box. Just adding an amp to that would be cheaper than an equivalent powered sub unit...

fo sho!

that's really all im looking to buy

if I buy a 500 wattt one and my sub is 350 rms will that be fine?
or how's it work

I have no idea what the sony puts out for power, it says 285 watts to the sub, but is that rms, or is it peak, or is it downhill with a tailwind? Regardless, if you want "more bass" I don't think you will hear much of an increase by simply putting more power to the kicker. It would definately be cleaner sounding. But, with a plate amp you could run the kicker and put the sony back in using the sony power. That should add some volume. And yes, it's perfectly ok to drive a 350wrms sub with a 500w amp. It's always better to have extra power or "headroom", just be sure when you set the output level that there is no audible distortion and you'll be fine.

Yes, as long as the signal is CLEAN! Audio should sound the same at all volumes, just louder. Any difference in how it sounds (other than volume) is distortion, and distortion kills.

Besides, you won't be running the sub at 500w constant anyway, unless you like listening to pure low frequency sine waves at full volume all day. :smile:

Normally, music is peaky, kinda like our BL systems. You'll draw 500w+ peaks for about 10% of the time, and maybe 100w the other 90% of the time. That's an average of 140w, which is wayy fine for that sub. I usually double the amp to speaker power ratio for this reason.

Does your reciever also have line level sub output? (that means its not sending any power - just a signal). You should know if you do or dont prior to selecting your amp - some only have inputs for line level.

If they are all rms values, then you'll want to buy an amp that's at or below 350w rms. Buying a higher power amp could blow out the sub. Its going to be incredibly loud at 350w rms. I'm only running 150w rms (total) to my dual 10" Pheonix gold subs in my car, and its louder than I can handle.

I was thinking aBout it right now and what I can do is

put the sony 8 back to he surround sound system

then get a plate amp and use that for my kicker 12 and my other m2 12 sub

ill be running all 3 subs in my room and it shouldn't be too bad on any of my amps!

damn that's a freakin sweet idea!
ill put the 8 in the frnt and the 2 12s at the corners of the room behind me.

wow!
I can't wait

does that sound good?

o and

why is some saying a 500 amp plate ok for a 350rms sub

but others say its bad for the sub?

I think you're mixing up what brian was saying about peak watts vs rms watts.

If both those values are rms, the amp could blow out the sub. If the amp is rated at 500w peak, then you should be ok to power a 350w RMS sub.

Actually, I always speak in rms terms. And it is better to run a higher power amp than the sub can technically handle because of the duty cycle of the signal; where you only run max rms power for about 10% of the time, and MUCH lower power on average. For movies or any other dynamic media, you want some headroom. If you are running 200w to the sub during normal listening, then a car explosion hits, the sub will want more power for that time then the amp can deliver and will clip. It's much healthier for the sub to see clean power than dirty clipped power.

ya thats what i thought.

it just makes more sence to me.

well.... then..... If you are going to run two 12" car subs off a plate amp there is something you need to consider, speaker impedance. Most car subs are 4 ohm impedance, but some are 2, 8, 6, or even dual voice coil models which have two impedance values. It should say, "4 ohm" or something similar on the magnet of the woofer. Lets assume they are both 4 ohm subs- you can either wire them in series for an 8 ohm load, or in parallelfor a 2 ohm load. Those are your options for wiring 2 subs to a single channel plate amp. Most home audio amps are rated at 8 ohms, so the 8 ohm in series example would work, but a 500 watt rms amp would only give 250 watts to each sub, power is split equally. A 2 channel amp rated for 4 ohm operation would also work, I just thought you should keep this in mind when selecting an amplifier.

hmmmmm... well.

idk what im going to do yet. i guess ill see how it goes when i get my 12 hitting harder.

also i was thinking right now...

how do i connect the sub to run at the same speed/time or w/e as all the other speakers? since it is being ran by a separate unit how would i do that?

First, what is the power rating and impedance of the sub? Is it dual voice coil? If so, what is the impedance of each coil?

I really don't get the second question. Plate amps usually have hi-level inputs that you can route your main speaker wires through and it picks up the signal from that. Also, they usually have a low-level signal jack (RCAs) if your receiver has those types of outputs. There shouldn't be any kind of delay worth considering since the signal is not being carried by squirrels or something like that. :wink:

well what im saying is thatttt
usually when u have an amp you hook it up to the player and you run all the speakers ad everything through the one amp

with this one I need to run the plate amp to the other amp without using any power from that amp.
I didn't know if there were just rca cords to connect
ill see when I get it though

usually just an rca cord, you don't have to worry about delay, it will all be up to speed