why do some dislike clutches?
 

I'm thinking of putting a tekno clutch on my muggy (when it finally gets here), but I notice that lots of guys don't seem to like the clutch setup. Why? I'm coming straight from nitro, so if it's because of the delay, then I guess it wouldn't really matter to me, as I'm VERY used to it! However, I might be thrown off by the lack of (lots) of engine noise.

Soo, is it just the slight delay in takeoff, or something else? Not including the initial cost or replacement parts.

I ran a clutch in an XB8 conversion for a while. I also had an identical setup in another XB8 without the clutch so I could compare the 2. I thought I might like it to smooth out some of the hard hitting power of the brushless and make it easier to drive. I actually found that comparing the 2 I prefered to have the clutchless power. Learning to drive the brushless with more throttle control allowed me to drive the clutchless version just a smooth at the clutched version, but it also gave me the extra snap/power to clear a jump that I may not have had the run up needed due to a driving error. Besides that, the programing features of the ESCs today really alows you to tune the power to work for you so the advantage is really lost IMO.

On top of all that, it adds weight and complication to the system that just isnt needed.

All in all I decided that I just prefered the linear throttle over the clutched version. If you drive like alot of the nitro drivers with the on/off throttle style they tend to use you might like the clutch, but if you are used to driving like an electric driver then I think the clutchless is better.

Anyway, thats my take on it.

Also, the clutch setup lets you use the clutchbell options for that particular model. Even though I haven't used the clutch personally, I too think it just adds complexity...

More parts to worry about and replace... the clutch bell gets hot too right?...

Depending on usage the clutch can get hot, especially if you are trying to drive slowly, or have a tight bashing area that does not aloow you to get up past half throttle or so.

I have one in a revo, and another in a yusa rally. The revo is fine with the clutch, but it is somewhat strange to drive. I used the clutch in the yusa due to necessity, it was before mike had the 2 speed adapter, and the size of the clutch allowed me to place the motor far enough back to clear the mech disk brake. I use a 3 shoe integy al setup in the yusa and the stock traxxas shoes in the revo. The clutch only gets really hot during break in if you use brand new shoes. After a few mins it cools down.

I am not sure how well it would work in the heavy muggy. Stock muggy users have issues with the clutches not holding up from what I have seen/heard...

Also, how does it affect motor bearing wear? Since the mesh contact area is further out on the shaft, doesn't this place more load on the front bearing if mesh is too tight and/or you get chassis flex?

Nice thread, most guys that I told that I was converting to brushless said I must use the clutch setup for best performance however none of these have a brushless setup and all run nitro. I see it as just more things to go wrong and really having a clutch on the car would nearly make the clutch the number 1 item to require maintaince

I think the Tekno setup has its strong points depending on the person.

For a nitro user who doesn't know "the BL ropes" yet and wants to try electric, this is a good path to go since it lets them use many of the parts they already have (the conversion is more painless) and also suits their nitro driving style. The clutch is probably a little easier on the drivetrain too since it does provide some "give".

For those who know exactly what they want and don't mind fabbing up parts (ex: new servo mounts, etc), the direct drive system may be better.

I agree with the the easier transion theory. Its kinda like a "gateway drug" Its what you run untill you want to get serious. :lol:

What do mean by "dont mind fabbing up parts" Brian. I think there are more parts available for the standard non-clutch setup than a clutch style setup.

The clutch was always the hottest part of the whole buggy in my setup. Another reason I didnt like it. The whole point of a good setup is to keep the heat away... Not generate extra.:whistle:

Out of a slipper or a clutch, I would much prefer a slipper. Some sort of shock protection is a good idea, IMO. When Mike brings out the slipperential, that will be great for a buggy, or truggy. I prefer the feel of a direct pinion better than the clutch. Plus it is less stuff to go wrong, and it does place less stress on the motor bearngs, and the motor mount. My yusa uses a L braket motor mount, and needs some braces, as the addl weight of the clutch and the length will flex the mount quite a bit.

I may be wrong but I think the reason most brushless setups do away with the clutch is so they can do away with the mechanical brake (extra servo) and just using ESC / motor braking?

ive been testing loads of motors recently in a ofna gtp for the purpose of oval racing. we currently run all nitro cars in the series but i have done a brushless conversion and i am now running in the series against the nitro.
i started with a 7xl then down to 8xl and now settled on the 9xl which matches the speed of the nitro,s to keep it on a level.
on all the testing its been dirrect pinion to spur with lots of wear to the pinion. i have just recently installed the elektri clutch and the results are great. wear problem gone but the best thing is i have gained a third extra run time from my cells.

Very interesting. What are the actual run times? Oh - and welcome to the forums.

The reason why i don't like them (in theory and in practice)

-The clutch looses efficiency of the total setup (heats up)
-the bearings on the motor take a harder beating (because the pinion gear is further away from the bearing)
-more maintenance
-added mass (3 oz+)
-adds rotational mass (clutch and diskbrakes)
-not easy to tweak starting power/take-off (because of the mechanical clutch)
-harder to tune brakes (because of the mechanical brakes)


For the last two things wrenching is needed, while either a motorbrake or startup power can be programmed on the esc if no clutch/mechanical brake is used.


The good thing about the clutch setup; if you are a die-hard nitro fan, you know what to do if you want to brake harder or accelerate harder. For those a clutch setup might actually work. But i think the mainstream can get around this and simple get used to the ease of not using tools to do their adjustments.

Brushless is the new technology. it's like a stove with a piezo, and still using ancient rocks to light a fire. (or still running windows '95 because that's the last stable OS you are used to..)

Little off topic but has any one had/tried clutches on a outrunner Direct to diff set up? Thinking out loud but wouldn't that take some torque and cogging out of the direct to diff set up, then you guys wouldn't have to use HV tp get past the cogg?

I was born with a club face and had to attend a special school as a youth. I was too young to know any better, but the principal gave "special" attention to some of the weaker boys. He stole my innocence. That principal was a clutch, and ever since then I have never liked clutches.........

I thought about this too, and decided that a larger clutch than a std 1/8 nitro would be required due to the lack of any gear reduction that a direct to diff setup has. Maybe a clutch out of a 1/5 scale would work? But two would be needed, one on each end of the motor.

Club face huh? "Special" attention to the weaker boys? I almost thought you were serious...

:lol:

That was good, even by my standards. :oops:

:surprised: it was all worth it!:smile:

My thoughts exactly then you could keep brake bias AND have a super low to the ground COG :)

should have mentioned.............
 

should have mentioned that I WILL be using mechanical brakes for this setup, not the motor. My only reason for wanting to use the clutch is simply to take the stress of shock from a landing off the motor, nothing else really. I do agree with everything said so far about the clutch adding stress to the system b/c of weight, etc., but what about the shock to the driveline during a landing?? Can't be good for the motor, no?

This is why a slipper would be nice, can't wait for mike's slipperential to come out. I want one for my hyper st, as I really want to race that truck!

The elimination of cogging has probably already been covered here. But I also found another advantage on my Losi Truggy. The "direct drive" spur/pinion made my 1515/1y run hotter probably due to the load on the motor to get the larger truggys moving from a dead stop. With the clutch, you can get the rpm up on the motor before it is "loaded" up. On a side note, I put a really small outrunner( that had no business being in there) in my 8ight-T, spur/pinion it would overheat the motor and ESC right away. With the clutch, I ran an entire 5000 mah pack and the motor never went above 90 degrees and the ESC ran about 120-125.

So, would the clutch allow for more motor options?

sorry for the delay in the reply been busy all weekend. the 1/8th oval racing is 45laps or five minutes which ever the sooner and with the 9xl 51 spur 18 pinion direct drive i would get 62 laps out in practice runs on 4cell flight power 5350mh bearing in mind you are on full throttle 80% of the run. when installed the elektri clutch on the same set up it produced 86 laps track time.
this weekend was a race meeting and after each race and some warm up laps i recharged the lipos and i had used 2900 to 3100 mhs for this track time hope this helps
btw the inner oval barrier length is 85 mts

Interesting, the increase in lap numbers must be due to the motor not drawing as much current to get the truck moving from low speeds/standstill. I have a tekno revo, and the rcm mount too, I may have do some runtime tests with it both ways and see if it does the same as yours. I assume that you are using mech brakes in both situations?

You could probably get the same extended runtime results results by turning up the punch control or current limiter on the ESC and forget about the clutch.

when i was using a 7xl no clutch but direct drive and found this to be to fast against the nitro's i found by going to mech brakes and switching of the speedo brake this also increased my run time but at this early stage of testing i was only using 2200mh 4 cell lipo and was unable to get the 5 mins i would only get 23 laps but the mech brakes increased it to 31