Project: Something a little different
 

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd fill you all in on my latest project. Unfortunately, I've decided to scrap the LiteSpeed Speed Record car that I was working on, because of various reason which I won't go into here (to do with how the event was being "run":no:). Anyways, I've started on something completely different, and I though you guys might be interested; it's going to be a brushless (and British!) Schumacher Havoc:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0145.jpg

The Havoc isn't a hugely common truck, so for anyone who doesn't know much about it, it's a seriously tough 1/8th, 2WD "Stunt Truck". I managed to pick mine up for £120 with only about 6 runs on it, and have stripped it right down, cleaned her up, rebuilt her and of course removed all that nitro rubbish. I just can't get over how overbuilt this thing is though...I've never built such an insanely beefy truck! Seriously. The transmission is all hardened steel with exception to the spur (nylon to act as a fuse if needs be), with no pansy slipper clutch and a massive, steel ball differential. The chassis is 4mm-thick 6082 aluminium, and all the suspension components are huge and made from glass-fibre infused plastics. There's loads of M4 hardware. The machine also uses a lot of CSC...similar to carbon fibre, but uses glass fibre every other layer so it's a bit heavier, but even tougher (more impact resilient). Even the rollbar is 6mm stainless steel! Here's some more pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0136.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0140.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0142.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0139.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSCF0146.jpg

Anyways, I'm just going to turn this into an overpowered bashing machine.:diablo: I'll CAD-up a custom motor mount, and I'm looking at perhaps running the Castle 1515 1Y motor when it's released, on 5 or 6S LiPo...maybe a big Zippy-H pack, or I might spend a bit more. I'd like to use a 1515 2.5D, but it doesn't look like CC will be releasing that wind and I can't really stretch to a proper Neu.:neutral: It'll use a new MMM that I have sitting here, unused, though how long that'll last is anyone's guess right now.

I'll post more updates as they come, though they might not be for a while...I'm not super-wealthy right now lol. Thanks for looking.:smile:

Beefy. Had you not shown pictures of the underside, one would think that thing is brand new. Looks like a nice little project.

This will be an interesting conversion to watch! Only thing I don't like about it is the small bore shocks. But hey, it'll still be fun!

Maybe dagger could put a set of lst shocks on it...

Looks like a fun project, gotta love the torx hardware!

Definately beefy....

Just how you like it, huh Neil?!!?!?!?

wow linc.... might want to fab up some hex adapters for the wheels. i dont think Shumacher's(sp) holding design will like brushless...

Looks like a great build

looks like a very stout truck, nice build so far, I'll be looking forward to future progress updates.

Have a great one..

2wd will be fun with a 1515. I can tell already.

Those shocks do look thin, might have to put a wheelie bar on being only RWD

Cheers guys, thanks for the encouragement (always nice to get approval from all your experienced minds :intello:)!

About the shocks...at first I was a little dubious too, but they actually shouldn't be a problem area. They're bottom-fillers so there are no caps to be blown-out, they have 3mm hardened shafts and they're fairly smooth. If I have any issues with them then I might look into changing them for some beefier big-bore units, but for now they seem fine and smooth. LST shocks won't fit unfortunately, but they would look pretty uber on there lol!:diablo:
BrushlessBoy, the Havoc's wheel-mounting design is actually pretty solid (though it doesn't look it in the photos there). What you can't see in the pics are a large, aluminium wheel adaptors that key into the stub axles and then interface to the wheels over a large area using a proprietary design. It's a really strong setup, but it kinda limits wheel options...so at some point I'll probably fit Schumacher's optional 23mm hex kit. She'll also be getting a wheelie bar on there for sure (the stock rear bumper is cracked anyway, so it's not on atm).:yes:

I really can't wait to finish this thing...it should be an fun basher!:yipi: The one concern that I have is LiPo physical durability when I'm doing serious jumps, though I'm hoping that the RC-M battery trays will take care of that. And yeah, a 1515 will be a handful...but I'm told that the Havoc handles its horsepower really well for a RWD truck. Should be a lot of fun! I best get on with designing a motor mount...

i watched some of the havoc videos on youtube a long while back and they do handle the power surprisingly well for a 2wd truck much better than a 2wd emaxx it seems.


and since you are building a "stunt truck" its gonna be a requirement that you jump it over your house or something else crazy and post the video for us.......

If you're worried about Lipo durablity, would you consider A123 cells? They're a lot more durable than Lipo, and to me seem like they'd be better suited to a "stunt" truck.

+1 :)

Hehe, those look like NBB shocks. That is, Not Big Bore. They look extra narrow. I never understood the whole BB shock thing anyway. Looks like it will be fun though.

:lol:Lol, they're not extra narrow...just 1/10th scale bore with wide-wound springs to prevent dirt from clogging up.:wink:

Thanks for the A123 suggestion though...I hadn't thought of them!:smile: I'm not sure how well I'd be able to fit them on the chassis, as I'd prefer a 6 or 7S2P configuration which'd need quite a few cells. I'll have to look into that one, but it'd certainly be physically tougher than LiPo...*scrurries off to start measuring chassis space*

Looks like a good project in the works mate, can't wait to see it finished. Us brits know how to build it proper :rofl:

If you post the chassis dimensions for battery mounting, we might be able to help come up with an A123 configuration :yes:.

Thanks MetalMan, that'd be really helpful! I've whipped up some rough diagrams of the sort of space there is available on the chassis, though as you can see, there isn't much with either steering servo configuration, and I really don't want to go with 1P. I'm thinking 12 (or 14) cells are going to be pretty hard to cram on there, even when stacked; I can't come up with a decent config. Maybe you guys can! The other thing that concerns me is that, aren't A123 cells kinda difficult to solder? I've not used them before so I don't really know, but I've heard the aluminium can is tricky to solder to?:neutral:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Havocbatt1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Havocbatt2.jpg

This is the LiPo layout that I was going to use, and I might do still:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Havocbatt3.jpg

I'd use the RC-M battery tray, with just one big 5 or 6S, 5000mah (or aroundabouts) LiPo strapped in as well as can be. It'd certainly fit better and give better output, but it's just getting it properly secured. I might do a lexan casing around it, *if* I go that route.

Anyhoo, thanks for any ideas.:smile: And SuperBasher, I couldn't agree more lol!:rofl:

If you buy Dewalt 36v packs the cells have tabs spot welded onto the cells. These tabs can take regular solder and are much easier to solder onto than the aluminum can. They still require a good iron, though.

I came up with something I think would work based on your dimensions, but would probably required a battery tray like the one shown to the right. For material I was thinking 1/8" Lexan/polycarbonate, which is easy to cut and can be bent with a heat gun.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...Havocbatt2.jpg

because you have scraped your litespeed record thing, is the 3racing chassis up for sale? I'd be interested and i'm in england :angel:

if you dont go A123 cell setup i would think the truck would handle a little better if the wieght was centered in the 2wd here is your picture just modded to show the esc and move the battery more to the center...just a thought. and it would keep your reciver as far away as possible from the motor and battery wires.

would 1p be enough? granted its only 70A cont, but if you ran just 7s1p it would fit and you could perhaps make a 3s and 4s pack which you could use in o ther things :)

also, 7s geared down a bit should be enough shouldnt it???

i jsut went for 4s2p cause i got 2 a123racing packs for 150AUS delivered to my door :) (a dewalt pack costs about 40-60 bucks to ship here...for 2 more cells, and a whole lot more work)

BTW: do you REALLY want 1kg of batteries???

7s1p should be plenty as long as hes not geared to high.

Man, that's too bad about your litespeed project. I was anxious to see how it would do.

This one looks fun though! Have you thought about a DDOR setup? Or would that throw the balance off too much?

Thanks for all the suggestions! I wsn't expecting quite so much input lol.:oh:

MetalMan, I think that configuration would actually fit! I hadn't thought of that setup, so thanks for the drawing. I've been thinking about it though, and it looks like it's gonna be pretty expensive after all to do a 6S2P setup with A123 cells after all. Obviously the DeWalt packs only come with 10 cells, so buying another complete pack (or even just two separate cells) would begin to work out to be kinda expensive. Also, wouldn't the spot-welded tabs strangle current output? I've not used A123 before, so I really don't know. If I went with 5S2P then I'd obviously lose quite a bit of top end, and a box-stock nitro Havoc is capable of 55mph...so I'm aiming for that kind of speed.:diablo:

TT01 Mamba, I'll PM you shortly about that. :smile:

Rootar, I'll keep that in mind....shouldn't be too difficult to do. :smile:

TC3Racer,I don't think1P would be enough for my application. It's going to be a basher, so I really want more runtime than 2300mah can provide when I'm bashing out and about. 1P would also cause a lot of voltage drop with the 1515 1Y too, as it's fairly amp-hungry...so I don't think 1P is going to do it, especially when I'm geared for 55mph or so. Thanks for the suggestion anyway!

Whats_Nitro, I know...I was looking forward to completing it too, but I have good reasons for stopping the project which I shouldn't really mention here.:cry: It's annoying, but at least I'll be able to use the Havoc everyday. I'm going to sound thick here, but what do you mean by a DDOR setup?

At the moment it looks to me like a single large LiPo pack is going to be easier and cheaper to do...A123's durability is very attractive, but I don't think they're going to be practical in this particular truck. I'm thinking that a thin lexan "case" around the LiPo (I think someone on this forum did a write-up on that sometime?) and the RC-M battery tray, secured in with a bit of foam padding should provide decent protection...I'm not gonna throw it off cliffs lol.

Thanks for the help anyway people, I really appreciate it!:yes: Might use the A123's in another project someday (something a bit larger with slightly lower power requirements lol). Does anyone here have any long-term opinions on the Zippy-H LiPos? I've read the odd positive comment, but they're amazingly cheap for what they are...:neutral:

You're right, 2 Dewalt packs are pretty expensive. But 6s2p A123 would have no difficulty pushing that truck to high speeds. As for the spot welded tabs, I've not noticed any issues with them being able to supply enough current.

Cool, that's good to know. I don't doubt that a 6S2P pack could push the truck to seriously high speeds, but it's just the cost...I just don't know. Thanks for all the info though. Now I can at least make an informed decision. :smile:

0o sorry. DDOR = Direct Drive Out-Runner. :wink:

FWIW I bought a bunch of loose A123 cells recently, and they have little discs attached to either side (welded or soldered, not sure) but they're definately NOT alu like the rest of the can and were very easy to solder on to. My 40W iron didn't quite cut it, I went and picked up a 80W with a beefier tip for $20 and it did it no probs whatsoever.

I will be running 7s1p in my revo, in a 3s+4s config because they also fit nicely in my other cars... if only the mamba monster could run 8s a123 I would be set, a bunch of a 4s a123's would be sweet.

Cool, thanks for the info! If they have those discs on, then hopefully soldering wouldn't be a problem as you say. I have a 50W temp-controlled iron, so that might be just about up to it. I'd like a decen,t long runtime with this machine so 1P is out of the question, but 6S2P might work. I've been eyeing up the Elite 4800 25C LiPos, which apparently perform nicely. A 6S pack would be tall, but I could lay it on its side in a custom-sized tray which would also prevent the bottom cell from having to deal with the weight of all the others in a landing.

Sorry guys, I know, I'm indecisive...both cells have good points! I'll probably go LiPo on this occasion like I say, but the A123 info is very helpful still. :smile:

Whats_Nitro: Right, I got it now! A DDOR setup won't work on the Havoc without re-designing most of the truck, as it's just a 3-gear lateral transmission; nowhere near as easy to install a DDOR as it is in a normal, 4WD truck. But thanks for the idea nevertheless!

H'okay! Time for a bit of an update. I finally found the time to finish CAD'ing-up the parts for the motor mount :yipi: . The design's deliberately very simple in order to keep costs down and beefiness up, but should do the job:

Base plate:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...avocmount1.jpg

Motor plate:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...avocmount2.jpg

The base plate will be 5mm aluminium, and will bolt onto the Havoc chassis using pre-existing holes; the four engine mount holes, and then two others that I think are for if you install the fairly pointless upgrade chassis brace. It's so big because I wanted to make sure that the chassis was braced like it is in stock form, which is why it mounts over where the engine would be. These holes will be threaded, to keep things clean and tidy. This also gives a solid base for the motor to work from. The plate is actually upside down in this pic, showing the four countersunk M4 holes where the motor plate screws will pass through. The countersinks allow the plate to sit flush against the chassis when the screws are in.

The motor plate itself is 6mm aluminium, and simply screws onto the base plate via the four M4 screws. Since the Castle Neu 1515 motor is 75mm long, there *might* be slight fitment issues with the rollbar mount the other side of the chassis...so I'll have to see on that. It'll be a close call. Might just have to move/fettle the rollbar, if it comes to it.

I'm getting these parts made by a CNC machinist over here in the UK, and they should be done by the weekend. Now I just have to wait for the CastleNeu motor to be released, and for the MMM V3...

Thanks for looking.:wink:

Wow, that looks really nice. It will be a fantastic car. :yes:

I also often thought about A123 Cells but i stayed at my lipos because my soldering skills are not the best and the cells are heavy in comparison to lipos.
I think if you are protecting your lipos with a tray, they should be 100% bashproof. :yipi:

Thanks man! I do hope so. :smile:

The motor mount parts should be with me tomorrow (the machinist who did the parts is quick!), so I'll put up more pics when I get a chance.

Cool! :yipi:

come on man you gotta "take it off some sweet jumps"

Hehehe, I'll certainly be doing that when it's finished.:party:

Anyways, yesterday I received the motor mount parts from my machinist (he's fast... www.fulloption.co.uk), and...wow. the quality is amazing. I've taken photos, but unfortunately the light is bad today and they really don't show how nicely finished these parts are. Extremely crisp machining, and done extremely accurately. Even the screw threads are all perfect; no swarf or anything. One side of each part is the milled side, with the milling marks (still looks nice), and the other side is natural aluminium:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/IMGP0269.jpg

I didn't waste any time, and started fitting them as soon as I could. The base plate fits well with the stock engine screws and M4 screws threading through...though they stick out a little on the other side. Unfortunately the M4 screws that I was going to fit the motor plate with are a shade too long for the threads, so I'll have to order some shorter ones. I've just placed the motor plate for show in these pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/IMGP0278.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/IMGP0277.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/IMGP0272.jpg

I'll take some better pics sometime, as these really suck! The next step is to sort out a battery and tray setup, though being able to sell my TNX 5.2R would put some funds towards this (hint!). :biggrin: O0

Looking good. This one is definitely in the home stretch and it will be cool to hear some reports of performance.

Looks great DT, if it were me I would just take the hacksaw to those bolts :tongue: Would you be able to message me as to how much they charge for smaller jobs? As I may end up using them for a part or 2 in the near future.

Thatnks guys! I would dremel the screws down, but it turns out I don't have enough anyway. Superbasher, it depends completely on what you want done...so you're best off contacting him yourself really. The address is www.fulloption.co.uk, and his email should be on there somewhere. :)

I think I've actually found a pack that will finally fit, though I can' really post it on here as it's not available on RC-M. It's a 4000mah 6S2P 25-35C pack, that's built in such a way that it'll fit in the square space on the chassis perfectly (I'd go for a higher rated pack if there were any that fitted without overhanging the chassis). I know that it's on the border of what's required for the 1515 1Y, but the Havoc is RWD...thus taking away some motor strain. Any thoughts would be welcome, though... :neutral: