does anyone use really big batteries?
 

hi there,
im gonna buy a losi muggy with a MMM esc and a Neu 1515/1y motor.
I was gonna buy a coule of Maxamps 3s2p 8000mAh 20C lipo's for it, but after speaking to someone at maxamps, he told me to get them to make me a custom pack - a 6s2p 8400mAh 25C lipo to be precise. He told me to get this because the muggy will be heavy and the Neu might have to work extra hard and pull more amps. he said getting this battery will make everything run cooler and provide the amps the motor might need.

BUT this pack is huge! it weighs around 1320g and is 98mm tall! I am just curious, if this pack really is so great, why havent i seen anyone else with big packs?

thanks

or you could just get a better brand battery and not worry about it. You do not need up to 2p for the 1y I run a single 5s made by flight power on my 1y in a very very heavy savage and no problems at all.

big= heavy, hard to secure in truck
go fo 5000mah ones

A 6s1p 5000mah 25c - 30c would be plenty. I use Neu 6s 4300 25c with 1515 2.5D motor; 20 - 25 min run time. The 1Y will pull a few more amps, but 5000mah high quality batts should be fine.

nah, im afraid its 8000mAh minimum for me! im looking for at LEAST 45 minutes of bashing time lol

i get 45 with my 5000mah longer if i am just tooling around

get two packs. truck will be lighter so there will ne less strain on drivetrain and changing packs matter of minute

two packs still works out to be about 1kg, and with the muggy they would both have to be on the same side

no he means run one pack then when that one depleats put the other one in. And like i said i get 45 or more with my 5000mah

but how can i get 6s with one pack other than a heavy custom made one?

it is not the 6s that is the issue it is the 2p part.
You can get a better brand battery and run only a 6s1p on 5000mah and size will be good and so will run time.


Like this one - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRWB3&P=ML

oh right. i get you now. thats a decent battery but its not much good with the Neu, because it is only 125A continuous. The Neu is 120A continuous and could have bursts of at least 150A. I think thats why the Maxamps guy reccommended i got a 200A continuous battery

You are missing the point. MAXAMPs lipos are a waste of money IMO. the guy told you needed that much in a maxamps batt because they do not deliver like other batts hence the FP one i linked. If you get a BETTER battery that much is not needed. I run a FP 5000mah 5s with a 15151y made by NEU and it does not puff or work the battery at all. I ran the same setup with a 5s maxamps 5000mah and it puffed and overheated and was junk. Do you get what i am saying now?

yeah kinda, but how comes so many people use maxamps if they are not very good?
i thought they were the most popular brand. so flightpower you say? do they make any 8000mAh batteries do you know? or at least 160A continuous batteries just to be safe. 125A is too close to 120A for my liking, even if you say it works (no offence, im just paranoid lol)

if you read not many people do use maxamps. Put in the search bar on this forum on maxamps and you will find there are very few that run them and like them.
im telling you it will work fine.

here saved you the trouble here is a good thread to read http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...t=maxamps+good

Like the other's have said the MAXAMPS packs are junk. They may work okay for about 10 cycles, but then they may heat up or puff badly.

They are also over-rated. They are no way 20c cont. batteries. If you run them at 20C the voltage drop will be huge.

The other FP or TP or Neu cells people are referring to are 25c/50c cells meaning they can do 25c cont. and 50c burst - that's more amps than you will need.

Thank you vinatage, i felt a up hill battle but i feel i may have reached the top now. Wasnt trying to be rude just trying to help a fellow rcer out.

yeah thanks man i fully appreciate all your help. i think u've more or less steered me away from maxamps now! lol.
when working out the continuous current, dont you do amps x C rating?
so VintageMA, how can you say 25C is more than u'll ever need? because that depends on the mAh. like you can have a 4000mAh 25C lipo, but that would only be 100A continuous (4 x 25 = 100), so this isnt good enough for any Neu motor. i still think the 5000mAh 25C flightpower pack will be cutting it real close because it will be only 125A...
or am i still missing something lol

Does this mean that even Zippy batts are a better choice than MA?

the neu motor at full tilt will pull over that but not continuously. And the burst of the FP is will handle the burst current draws of the neu motor.

Zippy and true rc are not as good as any enerland based packs but at least they are honestly rated and cost less to reflect this. while maxamps overrates and charges more.

everyone keeps talking about enerland based packs, but what are they? i thought it was a company but its not. how long runtime do you think i will get with a 5000mAh pack? i usually do speed runs and im aiming for 60mph in the muggy
thanks

i know these packs have enerland cells

FlightPower
NeuEnergy
TrakPower
Polyquest

there may be more but them i know for sure so with any of the above you will be fine.

so is enerland a type of cell? do maxamps not use these?

yes and no they do not use these

Yes, enerland is a cell brand and about the best you can buy. MA packs are no name cells priced like the are enerlands.

I have owned both and had too many MA packs fail. I have switched to Flightpower (who uses enerland cells) and could not be happier. Only a few dollars more than MA and much better.

a 6s2p lipo from maxamps, 12 cells. Ill bet even on Maxamps best day 1 in 12 of their overpriced no name cells puffs. That pack will spend more time on a repair table then in the truck. JMO...

http://www.rclipos.com/ <~ the brands on there are enerland lipos (flightpower not listed but great lipos)
http://progressiverc.com/6S_Lipo.html <~ check out 6s lipos
http://www.readyheli.com/Kong_Power_.../kp-5025-6.htm kong power 6s
http://www.flydma.com/index.php?cPath=17_18<~ neuenergy lipos

Thunder power is listed and i was once told that thunder power and flight power are the same company.

ok guys i've truly gone off maxamps now!

i went through all 25 pages of all their suitable batteries and i found 5 *possible* batteries:

(with the 3s batts, i would order 2 of them)

1:
PQ-5000XP 3S1P
Capacity : 5000mAh
Cell Model: PF 8643150XP
Voltage : 11.1V
Charge Current(2C) : 10.0A
Continous Dis.(25C) : 125.0A
Dimension(mm) : 28.5 * 49.0 * 163.5
Weight : 389g
http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.p...oname=&page=15

2:
PQ-5000XP 6S1P
Capacity : 5000mAh
Cell Model: PF 8643150XP
Voltage : 22.2V
Charge Current(2C) : 10.0A
Continous Dis.(25C) : 125.0A
Dimension(mm) : 54.0 * 46.5 * 166.5
Weight : 750g
http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.p...oname=&page=16

3:
PQ-6000XP 6S1P
Capacity : 6000mAh
Cell Model: PF 10343150XP
Voltage : 22.2V
Charge Current(2C) : 12A
Continous Dis.(20C) : 120A
Dimension(mm) : 66.5 * 48.0 * 168.0
Weight : 926g
http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.p...oname=&page=16

4:
PQ-4500XQ 3S1P
Capacity : 4500mAh
Cell Model: PF 8143150XQ
Voltage : 11.1V
Charge Current(2C) : 9A
Continous Dis.(30C) : 135A
Dimension(mm) : 27.0 * 54.0 * 168.5
Weight : 416g
http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.p...roname=&page=6

5:
PQ-4500XQ 6S1P
Capacity : 4500mAh
Cell Model: PF 8143150XQ
Voltage : 22.2V
Charge Current(2C) : 9A
Continous Dis.(30C) : 135A
Dimension(mm) : 50.0 * 47.5 * 169.0
Weight : 714g
http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.p...roname=&page=6

These all look ok, but my only problem is the pretty low mAh rating (and low C rating on a couple of them). all the batteries i was looking at before were all 8000mAh and above, and this kinda feels like a step down. how much runtime am i looking at, generally, with 5000mAh?

Many many thanks

out of curiosity, how much were you quoted for the big MA pack?
As already said, the "C" rating can be real BS at times depending on the company as there are no real stds. They are not necc lying, but they may be "optimistic."
The only way to really tell is to see discharge graphs and compare performance, as well as anecdotal reports. If a battery is getting hot during use, its pushed too hard.

If you want 60 mph out of a Muggy, then you are going to need a lot of power. I would plan on 2500-3000W peak or so. For 6S, this means about 120-150A peak. If a batt truely does 125A continous you will be fine. However, 3000W out a 1515 is going to start pushing the motor perhaps, esp on a hot wind like a 1Y. If you don't already have the motor, I may think about a 1521 even so you don't possibly overheat and/or use thegreater TQ to gear up and hit your spd goal. 60mph in a big MT is really really fast.

Ive heard that also, I meant that Flightpower was absent from the list on that website for purchse of enerland options.

BTW, the Zippy-H packs are supposed to be very very good packs at an awesome price. A number of airplane/heli guys claim they are enerland quality, but just not matched like you would get on a Neu, PQ, FP or other pack. They are too new to really know the long term stability of the packs, but for 1/3 the $, its hard to go wrong.

Zippy packs @ Hobby city

Zippy 6S 5000 mah (20C)
4800 25C

Or failing that, go 8S and less amps :)

There are many things you need to take into account when figuring out the current that you will draw. The kv of the motor, the size of the motor, the gearing, the weight of th vehicle, the size of the tires, etc. None of them are exactly the same and none of them will be exactly consistent from one setup to another.

When you look at the max. continuous amp rating of a motor, that in NO WAY specifies how much current the motor will actually draw. And it only specifies the amount of current the motor can handle at the max rated voltage.

Let's take the values for the motor that you are talking about: 1515/1y:
Specifications:
2200 RPM/Volt
volts: 7-25
Max Amps: 110*
*30 sec. at max. voltage. Otherwise, =Watts/your voltage.
Efficiency: 90%+
Rm (ohms) 0.006
IO: 2.5
1500 Watts Continuous
2700Watts - 30sec
Max rpm: 60,000
Stator Dia. 1.5"
Magnet/rotor length 1.5"
Shaft: 5mm
Shaft length: .75"
Weight: S-340g, F-360g
Dimensions 2.7"L x 1.56" dia.

The max amps is specified for 110A at the max voltage of 25volts. This is calculated using the power equation P=VxA. So P/V=A. For a 4S setup the max amps the motor can handle is 2700/14.8= 182.4Amps for 30 sec. On a 6S setup it is 2700/22.2 = 121.6Amps.

Looking at this rating doesn't really mean too much for battery selection though because it doesn't mean that your truck will draw 120 Amps for the period of the full run - even with a good 8000mAh pack it would last for 3 minutes runtime. Your Amps peak at startup and at full throttle, but most people will see an average over a 15 minutes period runtime of anywhere between 15 - 25Amps.

This is where the cont. and burst ratings for the packs come into play. At 25C a 5000mAh pack can put out 125 continuously (with decent air flow cooling) and in small bursts (ie: startup acceleration) can put out 50C = 250Amps. This is why I saw it is more than you will ever need.

And with the better quality packs you will be able to hold higher voltages ~3.4-3.5 volts/cell at these higher Amp draws; whereas, with the MaxAmps packs you will see that at such a high amp draw your voltage may drop down to 3.0-3.1 volts/cell.

Any of the Enerland packs people are talking about are really good quality cells.

I personally use the ThunderPower eXtreme V2 packs because all of my charging and balancing equipment is setup for the TP balancing jacks.

As an example of current draw, I am running the 1515/2.5D (1700kv) in my e-Revo with a 6S 5000mAh pack and my max power draw is around 1500watts which comes out to ~70 Amps max. The pack voltage always holds above 3.5 v/cell and I've yet to run down the packs fully but I estimate about 30 minutes runtime for this setup.

You also have to remember that a model of a certain weight generally take a certain amount of power to move around regardless of the number of cells you use. My XB8 takes about 1200 watts to move around so whether I use 4S 5S or 6S it still draws about 1200 watts max, it's just that at 4S it has to draw more current to reach that power than it does at 6S with the higher voltage.

I think a 6S - 5000mAh pack will be more than enough to push any 1/8 MT around happily.

IMHO - I think it's silly to stick 8000+ mAh packs into a 6S setup as all you are doing is increasing the weight of the vehicle and making it draw more current. With 5000mAh you will have plenty of runtime and a more efficient vehicle.

thanks for all ur superb replys, i feel i am begining to learn... lol

the guy at maxamps quoted me $550 for the pack - which i am now not getting :yipi:
heres a 62mph revo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85v85Pn3DMk

ok, going by your advice i've made a new list of batteries :whip:

(i found all of these lipos at http://www.rclipos.com/RCL.html)

1:
Elite EL6S-5300 Li-Poly Battery In Stock $306.00
22.2V 5300mAh (6 cells) 30C/50C
Rating: 30C (159.0A) continuous, 50C (265.0A) burst
Dimension: 188mm x 46mm x 42mm
Weight: 800 grams
Termination: 10AWG wire leads
Request PQ / HP, AL or TP taps during checkout

2:
Poly RC PQ-6000XP-6S Li-Poly Battery In Stock $388.63
22.2V 6000mAh (6 cells) 25C/50C
Rating: 25C (150.0A) continuous, 50C (300.0A) burst Dimension: 165mm x 46mm x 64mm
Weight: 886 grams
Termination: Wire & PolyQuest/Hyperion tap

3:
http://www.impaktrc.com/product_info...oducts_id=2847

4:
PolyRC 6000 MAh 6S 22.2volt 25C pack
Cell Count: 6S - 22.2 volts.
Capacity: 6000mah
Pack Plug: None (You will need to add your own connector)
Tap Style: PolyQuest Style
High Performance Lipo pack

5:
PQ-5000XP 6S1P
Capacity : 5000mAh
Cell Model: PF 8643150XP
Voltage : 22.2V
Charge Current(2C) : 10.0A
Continous Dis.(25C) : 125.0A
Dimension(mm) : 54.0 * 46.5 * 166.5
Weight : 750g

6:
Thunder Power RC eXtreme 9000mAh 22.2V 6 Cell Li Poly 6s 9000 Lithium Polymer Battery
http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-pa...Y-BATTERY.html

7:
Thunder Power TP9000-6S2P Li-Poly Battery In Stock $599.99
22.2V 9000mAh (charge as 6 cells) eXtreme Series
Rating: 20C (180A) continuous, 50C (450A) burst
Dimension: 195mm x 48mm x 73mm
Weight: 1332 grams
Termination: Wire & Thunder Power taps


i particually like numbers 6 and 7 (i think they are the same:rofl:) but i would have to buy a specific charger and balancer for the battery, as they seem to use their own brand. are thunder power related to thunder tiger, because i heard they wernt so great...

I highly recommend you check out www.rclipos.com. Good prices and great service and shipping. Use the code poly4me at checkout as a promo code and you will get 10% off your entire order.

If you are going to go for TP cell, make sure you go for the eXtreme V2 cells as they are the newest and highest rated. A 6S 5000mAh pack is $300. With discount above you could get for $270.

TP5000-6SXV

22.2V 6-Cell

726grams

50x45x160mm

$299.99

Honestly I would go for 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. I would not go for 6 or 7 as those are the original eXtreme V1 cells which are not as highly rated.

As far as I know Thunder Power and Thunder Tiger are not related - but I could be wrong. Would want someone else to confirm that one.

On my BPP I went from 6S1P 5000mAh to 5S2P 7700 (2 5S 3850mAh) and 5S2P 9200mAh (2 5S 4600mAh) packs and I enjoy my nice long run times.

options 6 an 7 both weigh 1.3kgs...way too heavy try to keep the weight around 750 grams, and for the price of the 9000mah 6s pack you could get 2 5000mah 6s Flghtpower packs and get more run time between the 2 packs...the heavier the truck is the more it will drain the pack

Sounds like Maxamps is the new Venom of lipos. Higher priced, lower quality, popular with the uninformed. Yeah, I was the one questioning the "hate" of maxamps. Your guys' applications are totally different and uncomparable to mine. Personally, my pack suits my needs so I'm not going to come in here and try to defend them and have this guy spend 550!!!???!! on their battery. Obviously, if you guys can get away with running 1p, then them trying to sell a 2p battery says something about them. Especially when its such a high capacity and they still want to go 2p.