Charging li-pos w/out using a balancer...can it be done?
 

A friend of mine says it can be done, I am not so sure. I always use a ballancer w/mine when I charge so I have never tried it. So, can it be charged through the Deans plug only? ( I have a $ 20- wager on this one!)

You lost $20... Yes it can be done it just doesn't balance... Some people balance then charge without the balancers.

Others only balance every few charges. Some do it all the time.

Either way you are out $20...

I only balance my 5S packs as they have more cells to deal with. My 2 and 3S lipos, I hardly balance them.

I've been waiting on a balance adapter so I can use my apache 505 balancer with the Flight Power 4s evo I got. I've put probably 20 or more cycles on it since I got it. Think I should hold of using it until I can balance it? It's been taking a while for the adapter to show up. Got it from Hugo @ truerc Cananda. Probaly in some customs office being inspected right now. I balance my 2s's and 3s's, not as often as I use to but usually before a charge.

Sorry about the 20 magman and the hijack. Thread seemed dead so thought I'd add on. You should be able to get the 20 back when you run into a new lipo user.

I charge and then balance my packs. I find they get balanced better, despite the extra time needed. It takes forever to balance my 5s packs evenly!

with higher quality cells I have found there is a less of a need to balance...if you run MaxAmps packs you HAVE to balance each time

Honestly, as expensive as lipos are, I think it is stupid not to use a good charge thru balancer while charging. A fp vbalancer or a hyperion lba10 would be my recomendation. Plus you get a fair amount of safety with a charger-thru balancer, as they will interupt the charge if one cell goes over or under voltage.

I know that some like to charge then balance, that is a bad idea. If the pack is well out of balance, a full charge could over volt one or more cells. Balancing before the charge does not make much sense either, as one cell may take more charge than another... Better matched packs do not have this problem as much, but the cheaper packs will. For 40 bucks get a good balancer, well worth it. Or look around for a used lba10, they are for sale frequently.

The pimp has spoken! I agree 100%. I have a very old set of Maxamps packs on which I HAVE to use a balancer. My LBA10 had an internal short at one point and I had to sent it in to be replaced. While I was waiting to get the replacement I used to charge 1 cell at a time through the balance tap. It took a long time but it helped keep my withdrawals to a minimum.

Who did you send the balancer back to? I have a lba6 that does not work correctly, reads the high volt cells incorrectly. Not sure if it is worth fixing though, only paid 20 bucks for it...

I bought it from RogueRc and in 1 month to the day it stopped working so I contacted RogueRC. He told me to get in touch with Austin @ Maxamps and I did. I had to send it in for them to inspect and he sent a new one out about 2 days later, so it only cost me the $4.80 shipping. I don't know if it would be worth it if you only paid $20 for yours. It would probably cost you more than that to fix it. Are you even welcome at Maxamps anymore? I remeber them being a little bent when you called them out on their ratings. :lol:

Yeah, but they have no real idea who I am... Best part about screen names! Plus I could have a friend send it in...

You can balance before the charge and the charge w/o the balancer to 4.1 volts/cell. Unless the cells are really out of sync with each other, this is the surest way you will not damage your cells, though not the safest.

If you charge with a balancer, you can get the maximum performace out of you pack, because each cell will take the exact amount of charge that it needs. However if the cells in that pack have various capacities, you could risk damaging your pack as the cell with the lowest capacity will dump first, possibly before the entire pack voltage reaches the cut off.

Bottom line: Charge with a balancer and be conservative on the lvc voltage if your cells are matched. OR balance your cells and then charge to 4.1 volts/cell w/o a balancer if your cells aren't so matched anymore.

I used to do the charge then balance method (or rather - charge for about 1/2 way, then balance and then complete the charge).

I don't think it smart to do a full charge and then balance - if you do this and one cell is way out of whack it can cause one or more of the other cells to get way over 4.2v when the charger is looking at the total package voltage before switching from CC to CV charge. If this happens you end up doing more harm than good.

This past spring I got a TP 1010 charger with a TP210 balancer. The balancer is opto-coupled to the charger and there is a full communication with the charger through the whole charging process. You can monitor all the cells in the pack throughout the charging process and if one cell gets too far out of whack it will drop the charing current to 0.3A until the balancer can get everything in sync.

I now balance with every charge and all has been good.

I think if you are using cheap packs or you run your lipos to a 3.0V LVC frequently you will need to balance more often than if you run a higher lvc - I run 3.3v now as my lvc and have had no problems.

Do not agree with you on this:

You can balance before the charge and the charge w/o the balancer to 4.1 volts/cell. Unless the cells are really out of sync with each other, this is the surest way you will not damage your cells, though not the safest.

Without the balancer monitoring the cells there is no gaurantee that the cells will take an equal charger, even if they are balanced before the charge. You could still have a cell that gets out of balance with the low charge rate. Plus not every charger will allow for a 4.1v cutoff.

If you charge with a balancer, you can get the maximum performace out of you pack, because each cell will take the exact amount of charge that it needs. However if the cells in that pack have various capacities, you could risk damaging your pack as the cell with the lowest capacity will dump first, possibly before the entire pack voltage reaches the cut off.

The balancer does not regulate the amount of charge that each cell receives, it just bleeds off the higher voltage cells to match the lower ones. Big benefit of using a charge thru balancer is that I can interrrupt the charge if there is an issue with the cells going over or under voltage...

Bottom line: Charge with a balancer and be conservative on the lvc voltage if your cells are matched. OR balance your cells and then charge to 4.1 volts/cell w/o a balancer if your cells aren't so matched anymore.

I really do not see what your 4.1v method will do. You might as well just charge the lipo normally, risk is the same.

I only ballanced mine about every 10 runs (before I charged). I thought it was ok b/c thats what I was told to do. I now have a cellpro 10s charger that ballances through out the charge and wow what a difference. This is the only way I will charge my expensive lipos. It a peace of mind

you can balance without a balancer. It is much more complicated than just using a balancer. here is what you could do. pull the wires out of the balancing tap careful that they don't touch. using them same leads charge the cell to 4v or so. repeat for each cell until each cell is the same exact voltage. You have just charged the cells and they are matched aka balanced.

this is the only way i will charge mine also i love the cellpro 10s charger

+1 Been using that same charger since it came out. It costs less than an expensive Lipo and perfectly balances the pack every charge without even having to think about it. It runs an active balancing cycle rather than just your conventional extremely low bleed of the highest voltage cells. It actually varies the current to each of the cells by as much as 1amp to keep them all charging at the same rate and balanced perfectly. I'd recomend it to anyone as a very worth while investment. Its not that much more than other balancing chargers, but its by far the best balalncing charger currently available. IMO spend a few extra bucks on the one thing that actually matters when trying to maintain your expensive batteries.


But that said.... To answer the original question. Yes you can charge a lipo without balancing. Just dont expect it to last very long if you dont.

Another +1 - When I charged without a balancer and then balanced very 5 - 10 charges my cells would be sometimes up to 0.2v out of balance. Since I've been charging with a balancer at all times I find my cell are usually within 0.015v of each other.

For the trouble you would go through to do that, it's much easier to just buy a balancer/balance charger and do it the right way.

I do not understand why anyone would invest the money in lipo then not take the proper steps to care for and charge them.

They are the same people who buy $200 worth of nimhs and a mega1 timed charger... Lipo is cheaper IMO to nimhs. Less weight, better performance, and longer pack life. If you buy matched nimhs and a decent charger it is the same cost as lipos and a charger. A balancer will add a bit of cost, but a lipo should give about 100 cycles min, and a really good nimh pack may do half that before it has a serious capacity reduction...

So factor a $80 6 cell matched 4200-4600mah nimh, a $130 ICE, $60 power supply, and then a second $80 nimh wen the first has worn out... $350

Or a $120 trakpower 4900 2s lipo, $130 ICE charger, $60 power supply, and a $40 balancer... $350

No contest...

oh i know guys i was merely stating it CAN be done without a balancer. Are you kidding i am lazy. I don't have separate balancer. I have the Hyperion where i just plug it in and go. Balanced every charge. I totally agree lipo in the end is much cheaper than ni-mh even with a separate balancer.

So, the short answer to this thread is:

Can it be done? Yes.

Should it be done? No. Not unless you want to risk overcharging high cells.

Preaching to the choir Brother pimp......

I would rather have a cheap set of lipo packs than a high end set of nimh any day.

You just made the rest of this thread pointless with that post. :rules:

:na: