Looking for car amp
 

Now that I'm getting older, I don't feel the need to be lugging around all the car audio gear that I have now. Currently, I have a PPI PC2600 (2x150wrms) bridged to a Alpine Type-R 12" 4 ohm sub in a sub box I built a LOOONG time ago, and a PPI PC2100 (2x100wrms) going to a set of Diamond Audio seperates in the front and paralleled with -2db attenuation to rear Polk Audio full ranges.

These things have been in my car for around 8 years now (ever since I moved to Iowa), but are kinda heavy. The sub box/sub alone weighs almost 80lbs, not to mention the amp rack I made. I find myself removing the sub box and just running the fronts/rears full range (can adjust xover settings from the deck).

So, I'm thinking about downgrading to a 4 channel amp. 2 channels to power the fronts and rears (rears still paralleled to the front with a -2db attenuation), then get a small 10" sub in a lighter box. I also want more of my trunk space.

I've been looking around and it seems that they don't make amps like they used to. I remember when you double the power when you halve the impedance. Not so with most of today's stuff. I'd like to have around 50w for each of the mids/highs, and at least 200w @ 4 ohms for the sub.

Any ideas?

I haven't been into the big stereo systems for a few years but check out crutchfield.com Chances are they'll have what your looking for or their techs can tell you that you can't get it. Once upon a time I had a 2400 Watt Orion amp pushing 2 12" Pioneer Premier subs. The amp was mounted to the box as was a 1 farad cap, combined with the subs that weighed about 65Lbs each the whole setup weighed about 200Lbs!!! Hit a high of 141.2 db in competition, took 3rd in Bass Boxing averaging 136.1db over 30 seconds. Wish you luck finding what you need. If you decide to go with 2 amps I have a 2ch 360W Rockford amp laying around

I've had good luck with www.hookedontronics.com, very good prices and better name stuff, if you wanna go el cheapo, www.caraudiodeals.com has decent stuff.

Don't forget about the newer style truck subs which need only a very small enclosure, it may be possible to do an under-seat or other interior mount.

I had a nice system in my truck untill the truck got wrecked. But i got the system out & it's sitting in my apartment. I had the following a mtx 304 4ch amp & a mtx 500d sub amp. I also had 2 mb quartz componet systems . Thats 4 midrange speakers & 4 tweeters & 4 crossovers . I also has 3 jl audio 8w3d4 8in subs , a stinger cap, wire, blocks , a pioneer deck & neon lighting . . Plus i made custom fiberglass kick panels& door panels . All this was in a 95 nissian pickup .

Back in June I ordered this amp for myself:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_489AP74...40.html?tp=115
Ideally I was going to run a total of 4 ~55watt RMS speakers through it, but I got lazy and am still running the speakers off the head unit. The reviews for this amp are excellent, and I know some day (perhaps over winter break) I will install it.

BTW, if you want decent bass with a much smaller/lighter package at a low price, check out this 8" sub:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...04.html?tp=111
Before I was using an older 12" Kicker CV-R DVC in 2-ohm mode, but that sub couldn't handle the sharp/quick double bass drums of the music I listen to. Quite frankly, that sub made the music sound kinda crappy. But this cheap JBL sub has brought new life into my music. It's MUCH more precise, and still has plenty of kick. Both subs are in custom sealed boxes made from 3/4" MDF.

Hmm, I don't mind paying for quality. Remember, I'm an electronics nerd, so I know what's good just by looking at the internals. Some brands are "all show-no go" with pretty lights and large heatsink, but nothing of substance inside. No offense, but I remember the Profile brand and they weren't known for their quality - published specs were inflated at best. If anyone knows about "old school" PPI amps, you know they are built extremely well, and do well beyond their published specs. I'd keep mine, but they are just too big/bulky/heavy/powerful for my needs now. I still want clear sound with no mid/high harshness and no muddy bass.

Also, space is a premium, which is why I'm looking for a 4-channel. Ideally, an amp that is long but not wide would be perfect...

I've checked out Crutchfield and so far nothing catches my eye. They are just large square aluminum blocks. I guess the search goes on...

ppi made some amazing stuff, my friends that put 5 G's into their custom stereos bought ppi equipment

lutach has a couple 4000wrms amps for sale. go big or go home

i just sent in an old crossfire 1000d 1000w amp for repair. this is old school class d technology, I ran this beast at 1/2 ohm pushing 4 kicker L7 12's in an s-10 it was sweet. now it pushes 4 infinity 12's in sealed boxes in my van

my buddy just bought a jl audio 1000/1 v2 from a pawn shop fo $300 This is a $700 amp. check your local pawnshop they usually have nice power tools too

why not look into a 5 channel amp. http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-ZX700-5-7...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-JBL-GTO-5355...QQcmdZViewItem
just some for you to look at.

Brian,I was in the same boat looking for an amp for my truck.Good luck with your quest,I never could find what I wanted in the new school technology.I went with a old school Sony XM-4045 .It's the good gold series,when they were still actually made by Sony.I had 1 when I was doing stereo competitions,so I thought it was cool for me.BTW I had it paired with 4 SPL 12's,2 5.0 amps,good for 150.7 db in an Eagle Talon.The best thing was the little 45 watt amp pushed all my mids and highs and actually kept up with the bass.

I'm trying to downgrade my setup, not increase it! :smile: Do you realize a true 4000w amp will draw 533A @ 12.5v (assuming 60% amp eff)?!?! Talk about a clear example of the benefits of higher voltage...

Jl audio amps are a little low on the damping factor IIRC. They may work ok for mids/highs, but subs are a little more power hungry. But, I assume that is class D. Despite the high efficiency, I don't like the sound of class D amps, even on subs. I don't know what it is but I can hear the difference. Class AB for me baby!



I really don't need 4 m/h channels. I do have 4 speakers, but the rears are paralleled off the front, -2db, just for some rear fill. I like to keep my sound stage up front. No, a 4-channel is fine. 2 ch for the front, and 2 channel bridged for the sub.

My current setup 1x12" on 600w was measured at 140.1db, but wasn't really set up for SPL - just wanted to see what it would do. This in my current setup:

Trunk with cooling grate:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/trunk1.jpg

Same pic with false floor removed. You can also see where I stow my tire changing tools. :smile:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/trunk2.jpg

This is the small area out near the back (in pic 1 and 2). This is where all the connections are made. I can simply unhook everything within 20 seconds and pull the whole thing out if I want. Even with everything in, I can still get to my spare tire.

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/trunk3.jpg

So far, hippie has an 4x50 MTX amp that sounds like it will work. Just sorting out the details. If that falls through, then this is probably something I'll be looking at. I'd like to find something here from a fellow member, because I do have a few tradeable items. :smile:

I have allways used Rockford Fosgate power amps....super clean and very very efficient

try the punch series...this 4 channel amp is excellant price.....channels are bridgable also...... run two of the channels bridged for base and the other two for mids and highs in stereo

http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosga.../dp/B001AO4NUI

or this

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...mpaign=froogle

Thats a nice clean looking setup.I'm not sure I could take it out and have to redo it all. That MTX has a little higher distortion rate then I like.Especially since it's gonna be at 2ohms for mids and highs.But I'm kinda funny about that stuff.

I'm actually looking at either the RF T600-4 or the MTX TC6004. Both seem about what I want. I originally was looking at the RF T400-4 and the MTX TC4004, but I'd rather have a little extra power headroom.

I had a bunch of RF amps back in the old days where they were a black grille. The Punch200ix dsm was my fav...

Thanks. It only took a couple hours to do that setup. It's pretty simple really. But, it's heavy and takes up some storage area that I want back.

Actually, it's running at 2.4ohms stereo. I have a 2 ohm resistor in series with each rear speaker to give me my ~2db attenuation. So, it's 6 ohms || 4 ohms. Besides, unless you listed to a pure sine waves in a noiseless room, it is really difficult to hear under 1%. But I hear ya...

I bought a 4ch Elemental Designs back in 2002 and still use it today. At the time they were a very small and not so well known company making some very well made and clean amps for great prices. Think I paid like $150-200 then. Nicer, more power and cleaner than the RF, kenwood, sony :oops: and other various amps I've had.

-No idea what the deal is today, but they are still around!

The 4ch I had was very much underrated, where I run a pair of front components and a single 10". Plently of power and punch for me while not being over done. Fits nicely under my F seat as well. Seems most comparible to their NINe.4 amp. Worth looking into.


Here's pix of the guts if you like

Yeah, I almost bought one of their subs a long time ago, but decided to get something I could hear in person. The amps look ok. The guts are ok too; bus bars for power, single transistor pair per channel, decent switching coil. But the PS capacitance looks a little weak for the power rating - but fine for mids/highs (don't know if it's enough for sub use though). Not bad all in all for the price. I like the simple look too - no fancy LEDs or other gimmicks...

I'm not sure if this would meet your size requirements or not but I have had very good luck with my Alpine MRP F-550. I have found it to be an extremely versatile and forgiving 4ch class A/B amp. Running in 3ch mode with your setup should get you 90+90 up front and 250 bridged for the sub.

For a short time I ran mine in 3ch mode with a pair Hertz HSK 165 components up front and a pair of g210 boston acoustics subs @2ohm off the bridged channels. I don't recommend this as it does exceed the rating of the amp, but the amp never over heated. I have since then added a mono amp to drive the subs. The only thing that I feel could (reasonably) be better is the efficiency between like 30-60% volume seems flat. By this I mean that the increase in volume between 30% (on the hu) and 60% is less proportional then from 0-30 or 60-100%.

If space is your primary deciding factor take a look at this amp. I am not aware of another amp this small that is capable of delivering as much power reliably. The 2 possible negatives about this one are that they tend to run warm to hot depending on your setup and being a class D amp the damping is a bit lower then an A/B amp.

I just noticed that Alpine has moved away from using A/B class amps for their multi channel amps and now offers only class D. This is not a big deal for mids and highs but the lower damping may be noticed if driving subs. In any case these are good amps for the money but not audiophile class... you get what you pay for.

FWIW: I ended up getting an RF T600-4 amp. 100w x 4. The birth certificate says ~135w X 4 into 4 ohm.

So, I'll be running the fronts and rears on the front channels (rears will be attenuated by ~2db via series resistor), and the sub will be bridged on the rear channels. Since the PS won't be taxed very hard powering the fronts/rears (gains turned modestly), more power should be available for the sub. I'm using the x-over and parametric EQ built into my HU to tune the frequency response somewhat - just gotta get to a shop and use a 31 band spectrum analyzer. I'm also using a Phoenix Gold basscube to have boost and center frequency adjustments. The subsonic filter is nice since I'm using a ported box.

I found out I have Polk Audio MOMOs in the doors right now. I thought my Diamond Audio Hexes were in there! I did find the diamonds though, so, as you can imagine when it gets warmer, I'm taking that crap out and installing those diamonds! Sheesh, all this time and I was listening to Polks. Ewww!

The amp is physically pretty small for what it is. Heavy sucker though at 12lbs. The guts are nowhere near the build quality as my old PPI amps, the RF amps is smaller and lighter than the smallest of my PPI amps (2 X 100w). Oh well.

Now it's time to completely redo my amp rack in the trunk...

smart move....I dont know who suggested RF amp to you but they knew there chit:rofl:

I know what you mean about the differance in the old Punch and the new Punch amps...the old ones were built like brick sht houses....I still have an old Fosgate Punch 650 on a shelf here somewhere....I used to run 8 8" Fosgate speakers off that 650 behind my back seat in my old pickup truck....you havnt heard bass till you've heard 8 8's on two channels of a punch 650...the tightest bass you ever heard

Well, I was a bit hesitant at first. RF has never been known for SQ, but rather raw, underrated power. I have had old Punch 200ix, Punch 240x4, two Punch 60ix's, and a Punch 55. Each one was rated FAR below its actual output. I figured I'd have anough power for my current needs that I could set the gains at minimal values and have extra power on tap for a little headroom (prevent clipping).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Soundstream-Gran...2%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220326792333

If you don't mind buying something used. Any of the Soundstream amps that look like these are absolutly awesome. If you can find what your looking for and it's an older Soundstream, don't hesitate. The older ones look like the ones in the links above. Blue anodized, small heat sink fins.

Used to compete with these in the early 90's. They are incredible, versatile, way more power than they claim. The new Soundstream is not the same company. Man they had the best paper (pulp) subs I've ever heard.

In fact that 705 I have linked, I may try to win that auction and make a use for it.

I've had one older Soundstream amp, and while it sounded good, it heated up quickly. Might have been ok with adequate airflow, but my trunk (at the time) was not the best place.

Be aware of his feedback. He only has one feedback as a seller and it's negative. It's not to say that this transaction won't be good, but it's something to consider.

fyi fosgate is not anything like it used to be. go by the numbers ie. signal to noise is a big indication, as well as THD, less is better. i worked in stereos all through high school and college, jl sells the most but all their speakers sound exacly the same to me some are just louder. from my own personal experience infinity has the best "mass marketed" subs, the kappa perfect series will sound better and play louder than most due to the high efficincy. as far as amps, try diamond, its the same people who built orion before it was taken over by DEI and produced in china! i think a 8" kappa perfect would amaze you and have a small footprint. i have sold and installed most brand so if you have any questions on specific items or brands feel free to ask

just my $.02

I did a fair amount of stero work a few years ago, and always used memphis amps. Not too fond of their speakers (I prefer boston acoustics or mbquark) but the amps did well. Ran 3 kicker l7 12s (cast basket models, weight 25lbs each...) on a class d 1500 memhis. Ran the subs at 3 ohms, so I got around 1200 watts. Custom made a fold down rear seat and foward mounted sub box for the 94 mark 8 lincoln I had at the time. Welded up a cage that held the back of the box and had an angled amp rack with cover on the other side. Still have 2 of the l7 subs and a memphis 1500 class d and a memphis 300 75x4 AB amp. The amps are the cool looking polished al models, quite compact for their power output.

Still need to do the audio/video for my lightning. Had the truck since 06 and bought all of the gear about 2 years ago, but have yet to install it... Damn RC addiction... Weather is better now so I can gut the interior and start wiring, and drive the 12r while I have the truck apart.

sorry i just looked and they dont make a 8" perfect:oops: it a reference sereies:lol:

nice! memphis amps are BIG, but the few i used impressed me as well. one ran a couple HCCA2 10's and the other ran 3 12w6 v2's in a hybrid box. have always loved mb quart tweeters and crossovers , their midbass i was never happy with, except on their "Q" series, but for the money, no thanks. the kicker L7's are very "thumpy" speakers. a little less efficient than some of the others out there, but the increased surface area of the cone more than compensates for this. excellent speakers for a hatchback or smaller suv's

While on the subject, does anyone know where I can get an old PPI Pro12 sub rewound and new surround (maybe even the spider) put on? This is the PPI before they were bought out (by DEI IIRC). I've always LOVED how it sounded, but after ~5 years, it got "tired". It's been sitting in the original box since I got the Alpine Type R sub, but I would really like to bring it back to life. It has the tightest and most accurate bass I have ever heard. Yeah, it doesn't go too deep and doesn't have much excursion, but sure sounds great!

I've never liked JL Audio subs, Kicker L7's, or any high-excursion sub. They tend to be "slow" and not have defined bass. The Alpine sub I have is probably the best sounding cheap sub I've heard, and has lasted the longest despite me putting ~600w through a 300w sub. Maybe things have changed since I was in the scene, I dunno. And I'm more of a ported box type-of-guy.

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/ppi_pro12_1.jpg

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/ppi_pro12_2.jpg

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/ppi_pro12_3.jpg

I used to be much more heavily into audio. About 8 years ago, I was working part-time at a local stereo shop repairing amps, installing remote starts, alarms, etc. It was fun, but got tired of working in other people's hunks of crap with trash everywhere that you had to work around (a fellow installed called these cars "toilets" and even had a matchbox toilet car, lol). These are usually the same people who dump $5k on a stereo for a $500 car. Not to mention people running 1 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable load and wondering why their amp had blown output transistors or power supply FETs. One guy thought it was cool when he watched a transistor desolder itself from the current load. :sarcastic:

Brian this place has been there for over 20years they will use oem if you ask for it.....I use to have a sound company and had many JBL speakers redone there...might want to search your area but I know these guys are good

http://www.speakersaver.com/

I just called them and they need a speaker with a removeable back plate or magnet assembly. I told them what I had and he said probably not. He then said to "slide by" the shop and he can take a look anyway, but I said it might be a tad difficult since I'm in Iowa and he's in Florida. :lol:

I'll look around locally, but I did some searching when I moved here and there was no luck then. I figured I'd just hold onto it for now, but it seems that it needs to be retired. Would make a really nice fridge magnet. Poo.

yes you have to remove the backet to ne able to glue the flat surround of the voice coil after it gets perfectly centered...then you screw the basket back down and squeez it together...I used do a little voice coil and paper replacement myself when I was in a pinch...its not that hard..you just have to be carefull

what your baskets dont come off?

I'm not sure. I'll have to take it out sometime and take a closer look. It looked like a one-piece cast basket to me...

if the speaker is no good cut the paper out and look for some screws holding the basket down........its got to come apart dude......its like saying you cant have your neu motor rewound because the can doesnt come apart..lol


if it went together at the factory it has to be able to come apart...I would bet....cut out the paper

order the parts and get the shims for the voice coils...its a pieces of cake:whistle:

lol, cut out what paper? The spider? I'll take a look tonight if I think of it (and have time). It's still usable for light duty so I'd rather not wreck it unless I KNOW it can be worked on...

Car audio is on of my other expensive hobbies...I got more money in my car audio than i do rc at this point (about 5k). Gotta love it though, loud and crystal clear music is just something i love.

heres my setup: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/gallery/de...ehicle_id=2626

Ive always loved JL audio, there not cheap but you get what you pay for, Ive been running my sub on 1000 WRMS for two years and it still is in perfect shape. With this one sub and no sound deadening i hit 144.9 DB, and it is the cleanest sub that i have ever heard.

And the Focal mids/highs are very nice, i used to have some mb quarts but decided on these since mb quart was bought out by crunch.

The cone has to come off, IIRC. They are usually glued onto the spider and the surround is glued to the frame. They you can access the voice coil and the top of the magnet assy with the cone off...

I ran my 12" l7 subs in .5 cu/f boxes. They were the same size as the flange of the sub and about 10" deep. I angled the front of the box to cut down on standing waves. Very punchy that way, I listen to metal, rock, and tekno, so the subs have to be fast. The tube-like box worked very well, I actually blew the back of the proto-type out when breaking in the subs. Ran them at 3/4 volume for 4hrs straight during a mardi gras parade. Amp never even got warm.

I have a memhis 500d and a 200ab 4 channel to go in my truck. Bought a thunderform box and it came with 2 mtx 4500 10" subs. I will give them a try, the box was 300 bucks with the subs, or 299 without them... Not much room in a lightning, so I am not expecting the world.

It hasn't been updated in a while, but this is/was my system:

http://scriptasylum.com/personal/images/system.gif

That was in my Ford Contour, but when I got the Mazda3, I stepped down to a 2400 on mids/highs and put in Polk 5X7's. IIRC, I was gonna use the Diamonds in the front too, but crossover placement was an issue - those things are big! And I didn't want to cut up my car right away trying to get seperate wires for the tweeters and mids through the door jambs - it was hard enough getting ONE pair 16GA wire in there.

Ive heard good things about the Hex's, haven't gotten to listen too them personally though.
Ive got a buddy who runs two of the type R 10's off 600 WRMS, it does pretty good. I just love the way a high excursion sub hits the lows!!! plus seeing the roof of my jeep flex a half inch is cool too, lol. Ive got some designs for a custom 6th order box from team toxic bass, but i haven't had the time or money to do anything with them.