CC/Neu 2200kv Combo Temps/Review!
 

Hello all,

this is my first post, its a bit lengthy!

first i want to thank monster mike for adding me :party:
also all the people on this forum that have shared there knowledge and ideas.

I have recieved my 2200kv combo:mdr::mdr::mdr:!!! thank you superfastrc for the superfast shipping, great company and awesome service!

i was running it last night and all i can say, which is an understatment, is "WOW" this thing really is a monster, tons of torque throughout the power band, insane top speed and grin from ear to ear the whole time! bring on the nitros, they're for breakfast!

thank you castle! you guys have brought a world class product (as all of your products are ) with the Mamba Monster, that i really believe will change 1/8th scale rc racing (nitro whats that??)! nice work on the deals with traxxas and hpi both awesome trucks!

i wanted to post some of my temps with the combo in my E-revo after some hard asphalt and grass running... but let me first give the specs of what im running exactly; so the data will all be there to see if im within good limits or need re-gearing or adjusting anything.

car: e-revo - stock diffs/transmission gearing
setup: MMM COMBO 2200kv - cant stop grinning
Gearing: 22/62
tires: stock talons on 17mm hubs
Battery - SPC 12C 2s2p 8000mah packs
Deans Ultra plugs all the way around and 10gauge wire for consistentcy
calibrated remote to MMM, DX3R epa is 100
MMM Settings -
- timing low
- everything else factory default

i ran 2 sets of the same packs through last night and the good news was temps were consistent. outside temperature was about 55F

Motor was at its peak end of hard run - 165F when i checked periodically the temp was about 145-155F

Esc - never broke 120F it was about 110-115F most of the time, funny thing was the fan turned on at the 110F mark then when i went to check it, it turned off in about 20 seconds - is that normal? i know is supposed to come on at about 150F but im not complaining

Battteries - the hottest they got were 125F, but most of the time around 105-110F... i beleive spc says no hotter than 140F

My question is what do you guys think are these safe temps or should i make adjustments? i was thinking also the temp outside was 55F which is cool, so on a 80-90F day would i be close to unsafe temps?

also i know you guys might be saying we want pics! i know i know i will post some and i have a special treat for all of you e-revo fanatics that are getting the combo or have it and are saying how am i going to hold down the MMM ESC without the factory holder???

i have a holder that im sure all of you will like - it costs near nothing and it works awesome! i will post pics (nope! it doesnt have velcro, tape or zip ties!)

p.s. i have posted this on the traxxas forum and wanted to get your guys input here (thanks vxl and lee for your replys)

I would gear down, the higher c lipos would also help. 165 for the motor is a definite no-no

Gearing down seems like it will be better all the way around

I'm pretty sure castle has reduced the temp the fan comes on at with out telling anyone. My v2 fan never used to come on but my v3 one comes on almost immediately depending on the ambient temperature.

PDC quote

"If you were able to hold your finger against the motor at all, it should be just fine. Damage temperature for that motor is around 150C (which would sizzle and burn you right away) and safe operating temp is as high as 120C (which would sizzle a little.)"

without further delay here are the pics as promised of the setup and the MMM strap!

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC00973.jpg
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC00976.jpg
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC00977.jpg
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC00978.jpg

Can anyone guess what part is being used????? :yes: that one! and it works awesome! flips, tumbles, asphalt slides, next test is at the track but holds solid!

That is the steering stop thingy.

Ding Ding Ding :yipi:, yep it sure is...

i swapped out the stock steering stop for the upgraded one that comes with the e-revo for extended travel, so i had the stock one laying around...

after some minor dremmeling i got it to form around the ESC, i used some fuel tube to shorten the screws and some fuel tube at the bottom of the screw for added support and it works awesome :party:

the screws i used were the 3x32 cs 3694, the ones that hold down the support for the shocks

That is pretty frickin sweet ! Good job :great:, I like to canabalize parts too work in different apps too !

Here is an idea for ya , you could put a square of plastic mesh between the hold down and ESC too keep debris out of the fan .

Gonna borrow your idea for the hold down also :mdr:

So are you using the pinion that came with the MMM combo ?

I am using the Robinson racing 5mm 32p 20 & 22 tooth pinions and now that it came with the 18 im set with pinons... i am going to be geared 20/62 with a 4s setup im hoping that should be a sweet spot for this combo

i was thinking about putting a piece of mesh between it but voted for using Velcro on the battery tray and the inner body to keep the body locked to the truck to prevent any debris from coming up through the gap..

I still like the traxxas version of the motor :) black is nice

Cool , so with the included pinion it should work well with 4s and the stock spur then .

I like the blue Tekno/Nue myself .

i agree im definitely going to be going to the 20t pinion.. i know you have been running the neu/castle motor for a while longer as a beta tester... what gearing/battery setup were you running and what temps were you getting? was it in an e-revo?

i like the castle green motor :)

i wanted to post LEE's response from castle to my thread in another forum...

"Those temps sound about right. These motors are very comparable to the NEU motors. You certainly should not feel that the green ones are any less good than the black NEU motors. We truly licensed the design from Steve.

The fan on the controller is controlled by a temp sensor. The heat sink and controller are very efficient conductors of heat. The fan does not need to be on long, especially if the ambient air is at 55! That's normal."

its odd im getting responses that motor temps are too hot and some normal, hmmmm... im thinking that the neu/caslte motors run hotter than the orginal neu's but its not a factor as the motors are rated to run hot according to PDC.

the fan coming on before 150 and for a short time is normal :smile:

:rofl: Sometimes you kill me dude. :lol:

The temps are fine. Keep truckin' and don't worry.

brushlessboy16, that was a good one!!!!! "black is nice"

I am putting that under my screen name!

hahah thanks for the compliment. Im black lol. I have the prototype castle/traxxas neu its really nice

Hey, Pat's response and mine are on the same page, we agree. I would hope that you would take Pat's post as the definitive answer...

The Neu Castle motor and the Neu motor compare very favorably. I can't tell you one is better than the other, we sell them both! The green ones do offer some design features in the case that are put there for your benefit.

Not sure I like the sound of "rated to run hot." I don't want anyone to miss out on playtime because they cooked their motor. The old rule of thumb (flesh) is to put your wet finger on the motor when it is hot. If it sizzles, you are too hot. If your finger burns, I didn't tell you to burn yourself, put the lawsuit away.

I'm also concerned that there are both Celsius and Fahrenheit units being tossed around here. The temp readings that you take are going to vary based on exactly what part of the controller or motor your IR sensor is picking up. The hot parts of the controller are packaged pretty tightly/hidden under the heatsink. The controller's temp sensor is pretty accurate, it knows what to do. I don't think you'll see them varying much, so don't think your setting may be off compared to someone else's. The settings and the parts are all the SAME.

My hope is that you guys will get these units and install them. Go run them and see how stupidly fast they are and then gear back a bit to a point that is rational. That will also probably be a setting that is a bit less demanding on the components.

Playing with the timing really won't provide much / any noticeable increase in power. Especially with the motors like the NEU & NEU CASTLE. What advancing the timing WILL do is increase the heat generated as the motor will become less efficient. So leave that timing alone.

Lee

thanks lee, i should correct what i wrote "rated to run hot", i ment that maybe due to some of the minor differences between the two motors you might get a little higher average running temperature and that is normal for the neu/castle motor...
as more people get the combo and run them there will be more feedback on temps...but i agree dont go running the motor to the max and expect it not to get damaged or have a burnt finger :lol:

Given the fan temp sensor location you mentioned then i would see how my reading at 110 would not be correct, it is to small of a place to get the accurate reading with a temp gun. however i did get the same consistent temp reading when the fan came on, so most important as your saying the MMM is working right

the motor timing i beleive comes default at a higher setting then low, from my first run with it on normal to my second run on low it didnt make that much of a power difference. i agree, on all the castle controllers i have used when i adjusted the timing i never saw much of a difference in power, unless you go from low to max, but with it being at low you get a little more run time and a little cooler temps.

P.S. the MMM COMBO IS STUPID FAST... BUT YOU GOTTA LOVE IT :mdr:

I ran my system yesterday in 50*(f) weather. all out-jumping burnouts, etc
Motor came in at 120* batt was 117* and the esc was about 110. In the 15 packs that i have run through the v3, the fan has yet to come on :)

alright gentlemen looks like patrick has cleared up the safe operating neu/caslte motor temp question :party:

"Never allow the motor to exceed 170F during runs"

also check out his newest post pending to be a sticky, all the important info you need to know about your MMM COMBO!

thank you Patrick! :yipi:

Mine geared for 38mph in my e-revo(20/62 with 6.3inch tires) low timing, low start power , 70%punch and have been seeing 175*f on the motor when running somewhat hard(about 50*f out) . I was told by castle on the phone that it was ok!

Can you gear up? A smaller spur would do the trick, unless the motor is too big in diameter to allow that. I know it sounds strange, but there's the possibility your motor is undergeared.

On the Traxxas forum, Patrick said this,
"The CC/Neu is also good to 60K rpm and 200F. We have run both on the bench and in the field. Above about 240F (internal temp) the glues start to weaken, so 200F is considered maximum, and 170F safe temperature for runs.
" ^^^ just to make clear to anyone that still has the question, it is ok to get up to 200* but not good for it to really stay around there.

-Brett

Thanks guys. I just got my combo coming, your great info is a guiding light for me to set up my Tekno Losi 8-T

I had it beared for 42 and it hit 175 in about 8 mins and my enerland 6000s were at 128

update*

ok so i ran my e-revo at the track last night, at revelation raceway in Ontario CA, with the MMM combo and it was great! it was much more powerful than my old novak hv 6.5 (geared 15/68)... i thought it would be to much power as a must admit the novak was decent on the track with good all around performance.

side note - Adam Drake was there, Team Losi's Pro Driver, he was running i beleive a losi 8-e buggy. i stopped to watch him and "WOW" driving skill is incredible, killing people on the track and the buggy was looking graceful doing it... but it just made me think even more how electric is making a serious comeback for off-road large scale racing that pro drivers are practicing with electric... and I'm confident the MMM Combo will be the top choice in performance, as the 2009 racing season approaches.

the MMM combo was awesome i had it geared 20/62 and was running my proline bowties lpr wheels... the most noticeable difference on the track was clearing the triple was a breeze, if i could get the wheels to connect all the time :wink:, and in the back stretch it was it was a "MONSTER"

the temp outside was 55F and the motor couldn't break 135F the ESC fan never came on and the batteries were about 85-90F :yes: the operating temps were consistent, so i was able have a long practice session without any fear of temps going to high.

granted on the track you are not able to be heavy in the throttle and therefore allowing temps to be reduced, but with 170F being a safe threshold even for bashing the combo does excellent. i didn't gear it back up on the track to 22/62 as it was plenty powerful and if i wanted more power i could up the starting power and timing from low, but no need! also these temps were achieved with no fan on the motor no holes in the body for cooling, so i feel comfortable saying geared conservatively and esc settings on low, at the track you should be fine with temps. also with the 8000 packs i was able to get about 25-30 minutes of constant run time with plenty of power for track, i am happy with the spc packs for the price and quality they do great, if your thinking about getting them and know that you are not looking for a 50mph monster but solid track power and all around decent bashing they do well. i did get through about 3 sets of packs, with 15 minutes of motor/esc rest between.

i also noticed that the motor seemed to run smoother geared 20/62 vs 22/62, could be just that my batteries are not the highest C rating and the motor turns easier with 20. i think i will keep this gearing for awhile as it seems to be a good balance of power and temps... although i need to retest the temps with this gearing on road again to see if i get up to 170 as i did geared 22/62.

the esc holder pictured in my other posts did pretty good on the track but i did get a little bit of movement so unfortunately i will be using some Velcro or double sided tape under the esc for added slide protection.. but for the time being till the factory one is available it is a great solution.

one other note, the motor being so long on hard landings will bump against the back of the shock holder.. dont know if it is a big deal (dont think so) but it does make my sticker on the back of the motor start to peel off, and the sticker on my MMM was starting to get weak and peel as well...

any chance you guys think castle would send a few stickers as replacement to keep the products looking new and fresh :wink:

i know the review is long, again!, but i hope these reviews will bring value and confidence to everyone running these combo's

also its redundant but, thank you castle for a bad A@@ combo, it was worth the wait!

I'm pretty sure we already went over this in your other thread. It's your driving conditions. On sand dunes as you can't use the same gearing as you normally would otherwise.

when geared for 42mph(22/62) it was on the road and in my yard. Not the dunes. Geared 20/62(38mph) was on the dunes.

Well put a hole in the windsheild today to see if it would help. Geared 20/65 it never broke 125 in the yard after 15+mins. My pinion slipped and killed the spur so I put a 58t on it and after 10mins I checked it and it was 131. I am surprised that the 1 1/2in hole helped out so much. It was 45* out today. Apparently the e-revo body doesnt let much air in there!

very good thing to do.....drill some hole in the windsheild:whip:

so when is the release date for the motor only???

Lol.

Airflow is an r/c enthusiasts best friend- whether its airscoops or holes in the body, or a fan on the motor/esc (dont tell Brian), airflow is the key to reducing temps, so put your whip away and you might learn something :wink:

Awesome, that's great to hear that the holes in the windshield will yield a noticeable reduction in temps, that is the next thing i will do when i run again and post my results as well... as pdelcast said airflow is key!

e-fanatic looks like were were getting around the same temps and now they are working to our favor with more runs and some testing :party:

I'm just happy my temps are down! I just wanted to let you all know the temps were from my set up and now have it fixed! I have no issue telling anyone if its my own fault! I do think I might go to a 62 or 65 spur when on the dunes just to be careful!

I'm still running the 7XL with no problems. I know you like to refer to this motor as the spinning toaster of death, but when summer came around I added the novak heatsink and some fans. Never let the can get over 170 degrees and it runs as strong as the first day I put it in. Now that winters here a little airflow over the heatsink and its good to go. I have more than gotton my monies worth out of this motor and still the only way I can describe it is crazy fast. Oh BTW, MMM V3 is still running strong. OH YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are the esc's water tight? ONly suky part of putting holes in teh body lets more bad stuff in to lol.

The ESC are "Water Resistant" as they have a coating around the circuit board but im sure its highly recommended not to run it where any kind of water can get to it

I received my combo today and the Neu/Castle motor has play in rotor shaft/output shaft, about 1mm.I dont have this play in any of my Genuine Neu motors.If that pinion on the motor moves forward into my E-Slayers slipper clutch thats bad.Like I said my 1515/1y has no movement in the rotor shaft.

all my brushless motors from castle, hacker, lehner, and feigao have had a little play. A few 5mm shims would sure it up if you really need.

That's right, most motors due have some play between the rotor and bearings. A lot of times brushed motors have play as well, and for them a tighter tolerance is more critical (commutator + brushes).