Project fast 1/8 buggy on a budget
 

Hello gentleman my name is Paul. Found this forum the other night again and after investing some time in some reading I am more than impressed with the high quality projects that are highlighted on this forum. This site is a wealth of information and I yearn to be a BL master same as many of you are already.

My story is...I got back into the hobby after a long hiatus after catching the BL craze. I was very impressed with the speed and run times but I want more.
My first investment was a FT T4 with 11.1 maxamps and MM5700. This was last christmas and by this time I am bored with the T4 and tired of breaking cvds and other parts.

Now I have contemplated a 1/8 buggy for over 6 months but it just has not been in the cards monetarily. Now with Christmas coming my wife offered to by me 1 rc car....she did not say which one. lol. The only hitch is it has to be new, she wont wrap one of my used ebay purchases (shrug, I am addicted to the bay). So the shopping starts.

Now I have a watch on a 8ight roller for $279 (i thought was cheap,must have come down a bit)and free ship and this video actually started my inspiration again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKctWzmIgVc

I think this is what I am getting but I also found a new built un-ran xb8 for $250 and from reading on the site I am guessing that most of you guys would opt for this rig. I am only hesitant b/c I see that 8ight parts are way more accessible especially on ebay for cheap. Im not rich so I skimp where I can.

Now I need help badly. I still have the MM, a maxamps 6000mah lipo 2s and
3s and hyperion charger i think eos6060i or something, and speky dx2.0. Is there any way of accomplishing speeds of around 70mph with a MM or am I going to have to step it up? I know that these buggies are not meant for that speed but that what I want just as a option. I may run slower batteries as well. But I am no racer just a weekend basher at local parks and neighborhood steets.

So i need a conversion for the 8ight, battery suggestion (think best value and I would like to keep it 1 battery instead of two), esc maybe, servo I guess, and whatever other suggestions you gentleman might have. I am sure I need more stuff so let me know. I think my mom is getting a gift card to tower for Christmas too so it is on now. :mdr: I know I said budget but I will do what it takes to get this right the 1st time. I will just order in order of improtance to get running asap. I am thinking the large lipo will be the final purchase, and I have no idea what to get.

My thinking is that if I have to I will run the slower 11.1 lipo until I get all I need. I just dont want to keep upgrading I just want to get a fast 1/8 and not have to do much upgrading or replacing broken stuff. If I need a esc I might get that soon too. If its going to be a fortune to do this then I am out but I think I might be able to make this work.

You guys have a excellent community here and I plan to be spending alot of time here in the future.

Paul

sorry so long winded...im excited.

Oh yea I saw this as well but it seems overpriced....but this is the BL system in the video. I dunno I could order this and sell off the MM stuff but its really not going for much anymore. I just figured I could build better for less but I may be wrong. But i love the factory E stuff and how clean it looks. LMK guys.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOSI-1-8-EIGHT-E...A1%7C294%3A200

Well, nothing wrong with the losi 8ight, but i would say avoid the losi factory esc and motor setup for the time being.

You MM setup is not suitable for use in a 1/8 vehicle- you would need a much larger motor and higher voltage for any kind of success, topspeed would be about 40mph or so at best if you follow the old 'MM+BEC+fan+4s lipo' route.

I would suggest a thorough read of the buggy and truggy sections to see what others are running, what works well and what doesnt, but an Eight roller is a good place to start, especially if you sell off the remaining nitro gear to recoup some cost.

That said, your wife may have to like it or lump it, as ebay is your best bet for a cheap vehicle (she can always wrap the box it comes delivered in)....

TY Neil
I do admit I need more time or research and I am working on it as we speak.
I am also not as keen on losi BL system, so I guess I am in the market for a new ESC...sux. Im thinking of going with the MGM or Quark Monster. I would however love to stay with castle as they have great support and I have enjoyed there product but I am leary of the MMM sensitivity bugs and BEC problems especially for my apllication because a crash is ineveitable.

Maybe I should buy a new esc, and one more Maxamps 6000 mah 3s so I can run them together for 6s. Would the batteries have have the same life as far as buying at the same time. I have had the one for about a year with no probs and prob about 25 charges.

Yea I will prob get that 8ight roller off ebay for like 279 just to keep the wifey happy. Plus crispy new makes me smile. :yipi:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330293141708
Well off for more research, please keep the comments rolling and I will keep posting my progress when I get rolling.....in the buggy section of course.

Dreamer,

You can run 70 with a MM. Here is a video of a I-GT running on 4S I had built and sold a few months ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRkRL97is2E

This was done with a MM, Feigao 7L on FP 4S packs. I would suggest you not run anything smaller than an XL can to help keep the heat down!

Wow that was shocking...70mph in a 1/8 scale on 4s. What am I missing here, it does not seem possible without crazy heat producing gearing. Makes me wonder how long of a stable runtime you could get without too much heat. Very impressive nonetheless,very nice. Any photos under the lid?? Just curious.

I will buy whatever motor and esc I need, I have decided. I will probably clean down the t4 and put in the MM and 2s and drop it on the bay. I was looking at the new medusas a minute ago, they look promising with lots of options. So much info. I am trying to calculate some options as we speak. The only reason I am asking you guys for so much input is b/c I am under time restraints as christmas is creeping quite fast. I know someone has a choice set-up in mind...thats what I am looking for. But I am reading as fast as I can. I knew I should have taken that speed reading course seriously when my mom got it for me like when I was 12. :lol:

Seriously tho. I need stabilty, durabilty and speed in the electronics. So please offer your solid set-up for at least 70mph more is always welcome. If I can use one of my current lipos horay but whatever works.

Back to work.

That is the problem!! I ran 70 with that car, but heat is an issue. If you are looking for 70+ AND 10 minute runtimes, you will NOT achieve that with 4S in a buggy! 50s may be possible.

My opinion is that you try to get a MMM to run 6S to build a more solid setup for what you want!

I am with you my friend. I was figuring that was an issue. I have looked at the MMM and I LOVE CC but man will it take the beating. Are the V3 doing any better. I was reading the MMM dying thread and was quite depressed.:cry:

Back to work.

I personally have a V1 that runs perfectly and a V3 I am trying to sell that I have no use for so I do not know the story on the V3.

What do you want for the V3...will CC still warranty it? PM the price if you want to get rid of it. I will call castle and ask about service on used escs.

Lol I need alot of stuff...at least the spektrum will still be okay.

The V3 is brand new, never used.

The MMM is fine generally, and even if it isnt, their service is fine (you can always get the original owner to send it in for servicing if needs be :wink:)

I would strongly suggest the MMM as the electrical setup, a nice RCM motor mount and battery tray, and then just add you own radio gear and some nice Zippy or RCM lipos in your desired flavour or voltage (blue zippy-H 20-30c 5000mah lipos are great).

+1 to what neil said.

I used the Losi conversion kit on my 8ight-B. (not the electronics, just the hardware) I couldnt be happier. For about $75 It came with the motor mount, pinion gears, battery tray, etc ...its a great all in one. I got mine from Mike. The only thing I added was a kyosho spur to keep it quiet, but really, its not needed.

For a power system I am Using a Mamba Monster on 4s with a Tekno Neu 1515/1y.

IMO, the Castle 1512/1Y combo cant be beat in terms of power for the price;

Neil is spot on with the battery choice...
Use THESE for normal running, and THESE for ballistic speed runs.

on 4s you can gear to about 45 easy enough;

Differential Ratio: 3.3076923076923075
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 46
Pinion Tooth Count: 14
Total Voltage: 14.8
Motor KV: 2650
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.5
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0.1
Motor Current Draw: 110
Motor coil Ω: 0.0035
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 3.29 : 1
Total Ratio: 10.86813 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 14.77 inches (375.04 mm)
Total Motor Speed: 38199.75 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 49.15 mph (78.95 km/h)
Estimated Adjusted Speed: 46 mph (74 km/h) - 7% loss
Effective KV Value: 2581.06
KT constant: 0.51 oz-in/A
Motor Torque: 0.29 ft-lbs
Final Torque: 3.18 ft-lbs
Final Power: 1628 watts (2.2 HP)

and 6s for the speed;

Differential Ratio: 3.3076923076923075
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 46
Pinion Tooth Count: 14
Total Voltage: 22.2
Motor KV: 2650
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.5
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0.1
Motor Current Draw: 110
Motor coil Ω: 0.0035
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 3.29 : 1
Total Ratio: 10.86813 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 14.77 inches (375.04 mm)
Total Motor Speed: 57809.75 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 74.38 mph (119.47 km/h)
Estimated Adjusted Speed: 67 mph (107 km/h) - 10% loss
Effective KV Value: 2604.04
KT constant: 0.51 oz-in/A
Motor Torque: 0.29 ft-lbs
Final Torque: 3.18 ft-lbs
Final Power: 2442 watts (3.3 HP)

+1 to what Hoov said. 6s lipo & 60,000rpms should be 'fun', but definately only for speed runs- 4s lipo is ideal for everyday use for speeds upto about 40mph.

Thanks Hoov for the info and the links especially. I have decided to go with the MMM V3, almost ordered on ebay today but i need to work on my paypal acct. I will also be ordering a 8ight but just one stupid question, Do the different versions of the 8ight mean anything to me as a basher. I see a 2.0 version and two green box models. I think they are both nitro rollers. I dunno i just dont want to get something wrong.


So if I am reading correctly above that 6s should only yeild 60mph. Hmm. I mean not bad but....i dunno I was already doing that in the t4 so it does not impress me that much except for the obvious larger scale. I know the racers hate guys like me that are out for all out speed runs but like you said one more battery for normal running and im in the game. I just moved to N. las vegas and I havent checked out the scene for tracks yet so maybe some day....

Anyway I have decided on the MMM, def the lipos you mentioned (great value), Losi 8ight with conversion.

Undecided on the motor. I have read on 6s you should not go full throttle too long and Lee from CC said the 2650kv is only intended for up to 4s. Just what I have been reading. What about the Medusa Motors? Cheaper and if I burn one up it wont hurt as much. I dunno. What do you think. You did not say but have you have ran 6s on yours Hoov?

The 8ight 2.0 is the most recent one that just came out. I have the old one, so I dont know the difference between the two. I'd assume the 2.0 has some advantage/improvement.

as for the speed....Thats 67mph with the gearing set at 14/46....I just realised that the kit comes with a 45t spur...and I use the plastic 44t kyosho one...also the kit comes with 15t and a 16t pinion gears... So breaking 70+ will most likely be the case.

The castle motor is rated for upto 60000rpms. For speed runs, you will be fine....but you dont want to run those rpms without temp checks. also, you will be hard pressed to find an area you can run full throttle for very long...other than a drag strip or an abandoned airport. :yipi: The 2650 is under 60k rpms on 22.2v(6s) so it should be fair game....


as for me.... yes, I ran on 6s geared 46/15 with a Tekno Neu 1515/1y. I was doing just fine until I gave the controller to DickyT:whip:. jk rich
But anyways.... The buggy was running like a bat out of hell...until the foam came flying out of the wheels. They must have ballooned to the size of dinner plates...it was insane.:diablo:

Any aftermath pictures?

other then shredded foams, there really wasnt any carnage. The wheels actually look normal, until you touch them and notice the foam is gone. There was like a 1/8" hole in each tire when I got the buggy. I assume it was to allow for some breathing room between the wheel and the tire and avoid any tire bounce. I personally drill 1/16" holes in my rims before glueing to allow for this, but maybe I am missing something that the previous owner liked better. Anyway, the foams seemed to make their way out of these small holes and now that they are out, the tire actually "looks" normal again. So, pics really wouldnt look different than anything normal. I have bought new wheels since, but no on road style, so until I get a wheel that can withstand 70+ mph, I will most likely keep my 8ight on 4s.

maybe I'll pick up some of THESE or THESE and give it another go!

thats where its at ! ... we as gentmen trying to have fun. some to tame sppeed for a track, some trying to conquer it for no reason. 70moh tires must be had. Members here have gotten us what we neen Lu esc, now we need the fat tires boys... 70mph was a wow really last year... we can all hit it with a rcm 22 tooth pinion now. Tires cant hang, Axial bead locks , TAPED, and real tight are the best ive pulled. Anyone got a foam fat monster wide style tire they can produce... $100 here

Thanks guys. Well I was looking around and I still cant decide. I mean dont you think for like $50 bucks more I should a better quality/stronger/versitile neu 1512 motor? It just seems to be the winningest choice on this forum. Then cant that motor handle more on the gearing yeilding speeds even faster then the MMM combo. I am a little perplexed. I just dont know enough about these motors or experience and I just want a really versitile motor. I have also read that more often then not the lower KV is better for options where the higher KV motor will just end up producing more heat.

Hoov I am not doubting your suggestion in any way just picking your guys knowledge. I am just one of those guys that want to do it right the first time. And I am probably wrong or am getting confused. I just cant afford two of these motors or the possibility of burning one up.

Guys you are so helpful. I am almost there and thankfully b/c Christmas is around the corner.

Oh and I need those 70 mph tires for sure too!! Also I did see someone running beadlock on a truggy is that possible. Wouldnt it be very stressfull on the rig and produce more heat.

Hoov,

We have taken the foams over 90 and they hold up! We will see their max when I get my 10S 8T back up!!:yipi:

Jay,

The only problem that exists right now is that there is no tire truer to true them. There are ways to get the foam donuts to glue them yourself. I have been bugging JACO to see if they will release the 40 series foams they had a few years ago for the Maxx in a 17mm version.

A wealth of good information here for sure but let me throw in my opinion of running 6s vs 5s.....I have learned that running 5s seems to be much more efficient due to the high RPM jump when going with 6s.......the very first thing you should do is learn to use BrianG's speed calculator
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_top_speed.html it is the key to dialing in any truck.....you can get just as much speed out of a 5s truck (with the exception of speed runs) and run at a much lower rpm ...hence less fatigue and heat on the motor.....let the gearing do the work

LEARN TO USE THE CALCULATOR

As for the Castle Neu, vs the Origional Neu... the jury is still out. On paper, the Castle neu(and Tekno Neu) will be better for use in a buggy than the origional. The origional was designed for flight, so dust and high vibration werent taken into consideration as much. The Tekno, and Castle motors use bigger bearings that help with the vibration in land vehicles. They also have a sealed can to help keep the dust out of the windings. The trade off is that having a sealed can doesnt allow the airflow that the origional motor had....this generates more heat. People have reported that their Tekno Neu runs hotter than their origional did. With that said.... I used my Tekno neu in my e-revo on 6s geared to about 50mph and the hottest it got was 130F.

If you're looking for the most tried and true...you cant go wrong with the origional Neu. If you want something similar in performance and need to save some $$ then the Castle Neu would be the way to go. The motor is liscensed by the origional designer (steve neu) so it cant be too far off the origional. I mean, castle is now doing the distrubution for Neu, if anybody is "in the know" it would be them.

I'm not sure if I helped, or just gave you more crap to think about :neutral:

sorry for the book. I just know where you are coming from. I too want to buy right once. This is just one of those things. I dont think any motor with the name "Neu" in it will be a bad choice, but figuring out which one is best can be a rough task.

Man you have helped me alot. Last night I was doing some calculations and studying on nues site. I very well may get the MMM combo and I also noticed that I was incorrect on the lower KV i was claiming on the neu, I did not realize there were so many versions of the 15 series neu. I am learning and for right now I will just get the kit in and started and will work on crunching the numbers on the nue and castle nue motors. You are a wealth of information and truely appreciate you sticking with me in my ignorance. Ill get there its just taking a minute...lol. TY very much.

I do however feel much more comfortable about my decision on the 8ight purchase. They are SOOOOOOOO cheaper now then they used to be. I mean its only $50 bucks more then I paid for the FT T4 kit... Crazy. I know electronics are more but what a platform for the price.

Still very excited for the build and sharing my experience on this great forum.

Now if I can get Mike to build some two piece mounts like the one he just did for the 808 for the losi 8ight.

I'm glad to help anyway I can.

Okay well

8ight kit ordered (check)

MMM combo ordered (check)

8ight E body (check) very cheap on rcslot.com fast delivery

Paint (check)

Zippy Lipos (still need to order)

Pinion set (need suggestions guys)

quite spur (kyosho one right...link?)

Anything else guys.

Anyways, getting closer...now a little christmas prayer.

"Please god forgive for lying to my wife.....
for telling her that the MMM comes with the buggy.....
for telling her it only cost $200 total
for hiding my purchases on a seprate CC that she has no clue about
for telling her this car will never break like the other ones

and most of all for PROMISING her that this will be my last RC car I will ever buy!!!!

Please forgive me God.....Amen":angel:

It isn't god that needs to forgive you it is the mrs...

Reminds me of the conversation on Thursday night... My six your old is annoyed because i get so many packages!

:lol: if my wife only knew...i probably wouldnt have one anymore. :lol:

I think as long as I keep her thinking that she is "running the show" we will be good. :whip:

I used the pinion gears that came with the conversion; (15,or16t)
http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=losa0912

Kyosho spur;
http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=KYOIF147
http://www.impaktrc.com/product_info...d=2584&osCsid=

as for the anything else....

you may need this...LINK

:lol:

...if you get caught.

Wow looks like the link to conversion is not avail anymore??that sux.

Your not kidding on the flowers. Her christmas is going to be pretty sweet tho and I dont think there will be any complaints. Thankfully she is addicted to Tiffany like I am to my RC hobby.

Besides flowers just die and everytime I watch it happen I think that could of been a nice part for one of my rigs..lol. Im sick.

TY for the links Hoov again. Hows your 8ight build comming along??

I fixed the link....i must have copied and pasted it wrong.
RCM still sells the kit....i think...:neutral:

As for my build...
....its built! lol

Ive been done for awhile actually. Nothing special or custom really. I just used the kit. Thats why I never really finished my thread that I started. I felt kinda ....:neutral:meh ....posting about how I "converted" an 8ight to an 8ight-e, when all I really did was buy the Losi kit from Mike. I had it done in under an hour. No custom fabrication. No special tweaks or tips to really contribute to the forum, so thought I'd just let it fade away.:oops:

After reading threads like "what to do with a .5" I felt kinda amateur doing a write-up.

I'm glad to help others anyway I can. Offering opinions, or set-up help, but never felt like finishing the thread.

heres some pics tho if you're interested.....still need to paint a body...
http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k137/darrajsam/buggy/

"After reading threads like "what to do with a .5" I felt kinda amateur doing a write-up."

Yea I read that thread last night about 3am ane then went to bed to have happy dreams about it. My gawd that is a sic build. My hat goes off to him.