Lipo Charger Question
 

Hey Guys,

So my 1/8th scale brushless buggy build (XTM X-Terminator conversion w/ MMM combo) is finally almost complete, Im just waiting on the motor mount. I know I want to venture to Lipo with this rig and have been doing some research on the wonderful world of lipo.

I am thinking of running a 4s zippy lipo in the build, but now I need to start thinking about a charger. In my searching I have found a bunch of recommendations for chargers including:

Hyperion E0s060i
Hyperion E0s0610i
ICE
MRC Superbrain 989

I am mainly looking for a decent charger that is easy to use and preferably has a balancer built in. I will be charging the 4s for the buggy, and eventually probably a mini pack (3s) for my Rc18MT.

Theses chargers are a bit above my budget as I was thinking more in the under $100 range. Are there any good chargers that im missing that are a bit cheaper but will get the job done? If splurging for a nice charger like the one above is the best bang for the buck and worth it, then maybe ill go for it. Just thought id get some professional opinions before I invest.

I appreciate the help in advance!

Cheers,

Cobra198

Well, the hyperion are the best charger with built in balancer. The ice and mrc require an external balancer. A good charger is a good investment, get something that is 6s capable and charges at a decent rate, like 5amps.

There are cheaper chargers that have built in balancers, but I am not too familiar with them. I own a few hyperions, 2 ice and 2 mrc 989. All are good chargers. The ice is my favorite, but only charges up to 4s, wish it did 6s...

I use a 0610duo, it will charge 2 packs at 1C rate. It is a bit pricey but well worth the investment

I would get a Hyperion ( make sure it has an out put of at least 100 watts) this would eliminate the 0606i. I own the 0610i which I love

My next question is: do u need a separate power supply with the hyperion chargers like you do with the ICE? If so, thats gonna really put me over the budget..

Yes, pretty much all chargers need a separate power supply. Not all though. There is one of the 6s hyperions that doesn't IIRC.

Theres the Triton2 which I have, its similar to the ICE except it handles 5s and more watts.

hobby lobby has a line of good cheap PSs...ranging in price between $40-$100

You can also use a computer powersupply. Thats how I do it. I spent 15 bucks on mine and it will charge my 5s battery at 4 amps.

Cobra- tons of info in the "hyperion duo" thread, just a few threads down. It is an expensive investment- but if you spend the $ now you won't need to later.

I ended up spending $320 on a duo + the HobbyLobby 30 amp PS, charger/PS is the most important part of the hobby as you ain't going anywhere without them.... and packs of course.

If you can't afford to do it all now, then save and wait- it's worth it.

i personally use the turnigy accucell 6 cell lipo charger. software is fairly easy to use, and it was only 40 bucks... it charges and balances at up to 5 amps, provided your power supply can put it out. i charge my rcm lipos with it, and when i test with a volt meter all cells are perfectly balanced after its done charging. I use a computer power supply, it is fairly easy to make and all you really need is the correct end(or alligator clips) and you're done. just take your supply, cut off the big plug at the end. for your adapter, use yellow wire as positive and black as negative. then to turn on simple touch the green wire to any black, or solder it to a switch if u really wanna be fancy. viola

Cool! Didnt know you could do that! Do you happen to have a link?

Yeah, I was checkin out that thread earlier... Just cant be dropping that much on a charger and another 120 on a power supply at the moment. I realize that its a great investment but i just may need to upgrade if need be later. Im still thinkin it over though so we will see what happens. Thanks for the input!

Now thats what im talkin about! I looked at some reviews of that charger on the net, and people seem to agree that its a great charger and an awesome deal. I may have to seriously consider it.

My only question has to do with the fact that its only 50w output. In my research people have recommended going with at least 100w. If I end up going with the 50w unit, im guessing it will just take a bit longer to charge a larger pack?

Upon further inspection I noticed they now make a 150w Turingy Accucel-8 charger for about 80 bucks. Maybe it would be worth the upgrade to this charger?

yes...it doesnt sound bad now but it will get irratating later on.....

If you want to go that route, I can talk you through it. You will need 2 female banana plugs (radio shack is a good place to get them)

You will also need to be ok with soldering and taking apart the PS.

What types of batteries will you be charging? Voltage and mah. Also what charger. That all makes a difference to how powerful of a PSU you need.

This would be a good starting point. I have one of this brand, but lower wattage.

You want a single rail PSU. the multi rail ones wont work that well.

For what you want, I'd probably go with the MRC 989. Has a built-in PS, so it's a all-in-one package, and will do 4s @ ~7A before hitting the power limit. The 3s is no problem. If you end up getting higher cell count lipos in the future, the 120w power limit will just mean it will take longer to charge the batteries instead of the typical ~1hr.

And the only reason for a built-in balancer IMO is so the charger can read each cell. But I prefer an external balancer so I can remove it during charging if I want. And this lets me use one of those little cell voltage monitors if I want to see the voltage. In summary, I personally wouldn't let the absence of a built-in balancer be a deciding factor, but that's just me...

Thanks for the info. As for the batteries I will be charging I am currently looking at a ZIPPY-H 5000mAh 4S, or maybe even a ZIPPY-H 4000mAh 5S. Cant decide how many cells I want to go with right off the bat. I guess regardless of which i go with I would want a power supply that can handle 18.4 volts incase I ever decide to go that route.

Thanks for the input! That charger looks like a nice one. I guess it just depends how many cells I go with right off the bat (4 or 5). I guess I can just wait a bit longer to charge it as well. Im still lookin at power supplies for an alternative charger, but this one is close second on my list. Thanks!

If you happen to want a 989 I have one for sale. Exc cond, with the blue backlight installed... Pm me if you are interested.

cobra, I'm usually not one for endorsing member f/s items, but I would go for this IMO. The one with the backlight also has the PS unit. And for the money you save, you can get the external balancer of your choice and still come out spending less. With a 120w power limit, this will charge:

1s @ 10.0A (limited by current rating)
2s @ 10.0A (limited by current rating)
3s @ 9.5A (limited by power rating)
4s @ 7.1A (limited by power rating)
5s @ 5.7A (limited by power rating)
6s @ 4.8A (limited by power rating)
7s @ 4.1A (limited by power rating)
8s @ 3.6A (limited by power rating)

Im seriously considering going for it. I was doing some research on some other forums and some people are saying they dont recommend that charger for lipo batteries even though it says it charges them just fine. What is up with that? Just want to get all the info before I spend the money.

i read this too, but it was after I bought the charger. I have never had an issue with the charger, it works as well as my Ice and hyperion chargers...

Maybe MRC had issues with a few chargers? I have 2 of them and they have never let me down... Nobody ever specified what was happeneing, so I figured that it was some internet "expert" running his mouth...

Here is a thread that I was lookin at. Seems like a few people have heard it can get dicey when charigng Lipos. Is there truth in this or is it just hearsay?

http://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/sho...&highlight=989

Never heard of any issues with the 989. That thread doesn't specifically say what the matter is, just some vague "do not use it" message.

The only issue I could think of is possibly the charging scheme used for lipos. Most chargers use a constant-current/constant voltage algorithm. A very few use some type of pulse charging method. Not sure if this is the case with this charger. Linc, do you happen to know what method the 989 uses?

Edit: According to page 4 of the manual:

So, pulse charging is not an issue here. I don't know what else would be the issue here.

The thread linked above contains a post saying both Apogee and Maxamps do not recommend the charger. I would call and ask why not. The charger does support charging up to 1.25C, so maybe that's the issue? If so, that seems more of a user problem, not a charger problem. :neutral:

Wow, thanks for the info! Upon further investigation I found a post that discussed this issue. It sounds like you were correct, as someone stated:
The super brain can possibly damage Lipo batteries, "because of there micropeak technology which another words it charges with a pulse instead of a constant current which is supposed to be bad for lipos."

But like you said, the manual says differently, so im guessing it will be ok to charge Lipo batteries...



Hmmm, just looking at the Apogee web site. Here is what I found on the FAQ web page (6th question down)...
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
http://pfmdistribution.com/faq.asp

Like I said before I am a newb to the whole lipo thing so not really sure what that means, but it doesnt sound good. Haha. Just thought id try to check with the manufacturer like u suggested.

Hmm, I wonder if MRC changed their charge scheme since that warning was issued? I can understand manufacturers being leary of pulse charging lipos.

Weird how the manual says one thing, but evidence says another.

Linc, do you know anything about this? Was there a new revision (indicated somewhere on the unit)? What does your manual say about lipos, specifically, page 4?

I'm curious now. Makes me wish I had one so I could actually test the charge type personally...

OK, I just called MRC directly and spoke to their tech support. The guy assured me that the 989 uses the CC/CV type of charge, as does the 977 FYI. He went on to say that their chargers have not used pulse charging for a long time and that it is bad for batteries in general. I asked if there was ever a version of the 989 that used pulse, and he said it has always used the CC/CV charging method.

I told him about the Apogee and MaxAmps warning and he said he would look into that. Seems someone got their wires crossed somewhere! That and maybe the tendency for some idiot to spout some nonsense on a forum somewhere and it becomes "fact".

So, straight from the horse's mouth!

As far as the cc/cv charge goes both of my 989s have always charged correctly, and never gone over 4.2v per cell. I do charge thru a lba 10 or v balancer and those have never interrupted the chrge due to over voltage. I have a feeling an "internet expert" is to blame for this... or maybe a battery retailer (maxamps) trying to sell their own chargers to people who know no better...

Holy crap Brian, I really appreciate all the help that you have provided! That is reassuring to hear that the CC/CV charging technology used in the 989 and is safe for Lipo charging. Just wanted to be absolutely sure before I spend the money, cause I would hate to make a bad investment (or have a lipo battery blow up on me!

Anyways, thanks again for all the help. I just finalized the sale of linc's 989 charger, and should receive it quickly!

Cheers!

lol, that's what we're here for. :smile:

Although I've never worked so hard at selling something that wasn't mine to sell. I think I should get 10% fee from linc. :smile:

Haha :yes:

I can give you a good deal on a 4tec roller...:whistle:

Cobra: I shipped the charger to you, I will pm the confirmation number to you.

But I already have one. The only think I may replace is the chassis, but that would just be for the project completion pictures.

Just a joke, as you expressed some interest in the one I had a while back... chassis are cheap on ebay...

I know you like your pic to be extra clean.

Thank you sir! I appreciate it!