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Has Castle Abandoned us on Warranty
Reading a query and excerpts of an Answer from Castle on another forum it would appear that Castle has adopted the following policy on the MMM
Mamba Monster + Greater Than 4S + Less Than 68mm Motor Can = NO CASTLE WARRANTY Can someone from Castle please confirm / deny this? on 4s, what length can do I have to stick to? Are you only warranting the ESC now if we use YOUR motor? |
That doesn't make sense since the esc is rated for up to 6s...several members here are running 6s w/out any probs.
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In his thread he will be using a 50 series Medusa motor...that motor is too small for the application. If he asked them the same question w/a 70 series Medusa, I believe that the answer may be different.
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The 50 series are intended for smaller vehicles...the E- Savage is huge and heavy. A lot of people use the 60 series in a 1/8 buggy if that helps w/clarification.
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I have used a 50 series in an E-Savage (3300kv) on a 3s lipo and it ran cooler and had a truck load more torque than a Feigao 7XL.
I think people assume 50mm can and think the CC motors, the Medusa 50 series are IMO comparable to a Feigao 60mm can |
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I figured it out. They (CC) are being quite vague. They don't want you to use small motors in a 1/8 vehicle over 4s. The motor will overheat and potentially demagnetize the rotor, which could result in a burned up MMM. So basically just use the proper sized motor for the application and you're all set.
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So if I wanted to get a 50mm 1600KV MedUsa motor in my CRT .5 on 6s it would be fine but if people put that same motor in a Truggy it isn't? Sounds kinda like common sense but they had to say it for legal reasons (someone cooking their ESC 'cause they're an idiot and wanting CC to cover the damages).
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Subject A: "I'm running this in my E-Revo on 6s and it says it can handle 6s so I don't know why it fried itself??!!" Castle Rep: "What motor were you running in your setup?" Subject A: "A Feigao 9L that I had in my Rustler. Why? Is that bad?????" :lol: |
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Castle Rep: Actually yes. That motor is too small. Subject A: But the people on the traxxas forum told me that it was okay Castle Rep: Your motor choice needs to match your application Subject A: I guess I better take the 9000kv motor out of my muggy huh? The people over on the traxxas forum said it would work and.... Castle Rep: ...................."dial tone" Subject A: Hello?.....you there? :lol: |
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I think what he meant by "we won't cover our own motors or the ESC on 5s either" ...was... "we won't cover our own motors, under 68mm, on the ESC using 5s either
but i'm sure he will chime in.....i hope. |
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Seriously, I hope Joe meant it that way. |
I'm guessing that Joe means that they won't warranty their CM36S motors on 5S, which of course makes sense. Not warranting the 2200kv on 5S (which is what I'll be running) would be absurd, seeing as they recommend that motor for 6S usage...:neutral:
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A 50mm Medusa is a little on the small side for the Esavage - but it isn't THAT far out of whack really if properly set up and used. I use a 2000kv 60mm Medusa in my ERevo (a couple pounds heavier than the ESavage) - I also know how to set up my car and check temps, etc.. The E-savage is like a slightly larger 4wd stampede in size - noticeably smaller than an emaxx or ERevo. Tha savage flux is a different story.
I think the real message is that if the non-Castle approved motor fails and takes the esc with it, it isn't covered under warranty. The 50mm Medusa is on the small side of ideal for that application, and is therefore more "prone' to failure vs. a more appropriate motor selection. I think the motor would fail long before the esc in this instance, though a failed motor can take the esc down with it(depends on how it fails). |
I think it all goes back to gearing and speed. A 50MM on an Esavage is a bit small, but what if it were only geared for 25mph. You would have more torque than the original setup and about the same speed. The problem because that people go with the 50MM, decide its ok to run 6S or gear it for 50mph on 4S and then you are going to have problems.
I think the bottom line is if you know what you are doing you wont Smoke the MMM and you wont have a problem. 99% of the people out there dont know how to do these calcs or have a good understanding about running these systems within a sweet spot for voltage, motor size, kv. I'm glad the castle came out with the combos and put restrictions on battery and motor. It helps everyone else have a successful run without the smoke. |
My interpretation:
Non Castle motor fails (in spec / out of spec) and takes out MMM ESC - Not covered for free - Pay the flat fee Castle motor run in spec - Motor, ESC or both fail - Covered for free in first year Castle motor run out if spec - Motor, ESC or both fail - Not covered for free - Pay the flat fee Seems bloody fair to me... Castle will give you a new controller for 50% of retail for life regardless of what you do to it... Thank you Castle... I don't see this as a change from anything in the past... Both of the MMM motors are quoted as 6s suitable and hence I believe will be warrantied as such - I think this is one of those miscommunication occasions. PS To anyone running a "out of spec" setup - Is anyone actually going to change there setup or just "miss submit" their motor spec on the warrantee form... As I see it this is just a way of Castle trying to steer the masses (a couple of forums to remain nameless) to use an appropriate setup for their cars. Lets keep the drama in the theater... |
^^^What Arct!k said^^^
Seems all common since to me. |
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as long as it is a 1515 size it will exceed the 68mm length
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This is pretty much BS in my opinion...
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I think they are hedging against stupidity, and I can't blame them.
Before throwing CC under the bus, maybe give them the benefit of the doubt.... that they do have great customer service, and will continue to take care of their customers. But there must be a line drawn at some point. They can't continue to blindly warranty any and all MMM failures when they have reason to believe it was not the fault of their product. The problem is... how do you/they know exactly what went bad and what's to blame? I don't know the secrets to diagnosing smoked escs.... I'm sure CC tech can at least make an educated guess by inspecting the damage. Anyway... don't be too quick to flame a company that has always bent over backwards for you up to this point. You KNOW there are a lot of retards out there buying Castle products. Some of these people should stick to radio shack cars... lol |
I just think it needs to be clearer, you can't compare a Hobbywing 50mm can motor to a Medusa 50mm can motor.
My set up of a 60mm Medusa motor on 4s in a 1/8 Buggy, is that a warranty risk? I know not to put a 50mm can motor in it, so I accept that if I do that, hey, my bad! But if I put a 50mm motor in a Tamiya Mini behind a MMM I wouldn't consider it an overload (well except for the gears in the car....) |
I was just making sure that CC was warranting their esc and motor on 6s...
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Would be nice to have it black-and-white... they must have good reason to give themselves a little flex to make a judgement call.
I don't envy Joe/Castle for having to make the call on this stuff... that's for sure. |
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something doesnt add up. |
Well, you gotta use some common sense. It would be like putting the MMM as the powerplant in a Prius and complaining the motor and/or ESC blew. You have to use it in the right application. Using it with a tiny ~50mm motor in a heavy 8th scale application geared for any decent speed is asking for trouble.
And it would be hard to simply put a list of "acceptable motors" because even those can be the wrong motor depending on the application. Even the bundled CC/Neu motors could be too much for the ESC if used incorrectly. Just too many factors to make a hard rule. It simply sounds like they are diplomatically saying "Don't expect us to be accountable for your idiocy". |
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A month ago I bought a MMM 2200kv combo, and I'll run it on 6S.
Is my warranty gone if I run that setup on 6S? :neutral: |
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If you dont know if your motor falls under the description, go find out (personal responsibility here....) |
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The tool I am currently making for Mike will (hopefully) address these issues. It uses a totally different algorithm for determining motor suitability than my current motor selector page. Trying to make it as idiot proof for the noobs as possible yet make it detailed enough to satisy the curiosity of the more experienced hobbyist is a bit difficult though. |
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A motor that is too small for the application will overheat. These guidelines are for your safety, our customers...not just us trying to be jerks or screw anyone. We expect you to use either our motor or it's EQUIVALENT in these applications, at the same voltage that you would run our motor at. Use what we recommend and you won't have a problem. Use a motor that is the same size as ours and you won't have an issue. Use the proper voltage and you don't. Proper gearing, same thing. It's only when you do not run a proper setup (and we've tested WAY more than anyone else to find out what is proper and what is not) that you void the warranty. Don't know how many ESCs and motors I turned into paperweights in testing, but we used that testing as guidelines for our customers setups. Our recommendations are always what we KNOW works. |
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I understand where you guys are coming from Joe. But you know that no matter how idiot-proof you make something, they'll just make a better idiot.
Maybe you should incorporate some type of explosive material in the ESC and/or motor. That way, when either blows, it takes out the user. Darwin at work. :smile: |
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Yes, that's true. Luckily I don't run a MM in anything larger than 1/10 scale 2WD or 1/12 scale 4WD. :smile:
On second thought, that would be bad for the economy because the CC support department would be so bored that CC would have to lay them off. No need to increase the already increasing unemployment rate. Oh well, it was a thought... |
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