first look on xcelorin 1700kv-motor
 

after I have tried & fried some motors in the past months, most of them cheap but useless (except the 36-88mm brick, but the magnet got loose again...), so I tried the xcelorin.

http://s7b.directupload.net/images/090209/i3erpx8s.jpg

and build in
http://s7b.directupload.net/images/090209/5zcoec3v.jpg

I chose the motor because of the availability in my lhs, the good price of Eur 99,- , it's a 4 Pole-Motor, which means better torque, quality seems ok and losi says "90 % efficiency". it also has mounting-holes for 4m-screws.

The buggy is a cheapo-thing called "ansmann Virus", biggest problem are the diffs, the diffcases are too soft. I finally found an alternative, I have now the diffs of the hyper 7, which fit perfectly. the buggy seems like a rip-off of a hyper 7. but anyways.

I used the new motor on 5s lipo a couple of times, the diff has 12/43 teeth, kyosho plastic spur gear 46 teeth or so, and crime-fighter truggy-tires. esc is a chinese-no-name.

like that the temperatures were around 40 to 50 degrees on the motor, and a bit hotter at the pinion. I use a little fan to be on the safe side. it's pretty cold here at the moment, tought. highest temp on the esc w/o fan was 50 deg., with fan 30 deg.

Yesterday I had the hottest temperatures, around 69 deg. c. on the motor, 50 at the gear, after a whole run; the fan didn't work. it was like permanent full throttle-breaks etc. high grip. same gearing (/13t), but a newly shimmed front diff which is not that smooth at the moment (that will change after some runs. Due to the torque I dont want a loose fit in the diff). this may be a reason for the higher temps, I dunno. weight of the buggy-truggy is 4,5 kilo total.

Most times I had the lowest timing possible on my esc, 1deg, also tried 8deg, which caused less cogging, and probably better temps. I need some more runs to find out. the "felt runtime" on a 4400mah 18,4v lipo was good.

Probably I try a 14t steel pinion, I am just a bit scary after I killed some chinese motors. with 13t accelaration is great, wheelies possible, topspeed guessed (low grass, winter, no snow) +45 kmH. I have read and also experienced that a higher gearing could cause even better accelaration (and higher amps too).

performance overall is good so far.

When I think of yesterday's "abuse" the high temperatures of 69 degrees w/o fan are ok, but have to be lower in the long run, definately. any suggestions are wellcome.

has anybody an idea who's the manufacturer of the Motor?
flo

Good review. The motor is made by losi.

thanks. it seems that it's a solid motor so far, for good money. The question is, who is the manufacturer? I don't believe that losi is producing the motors, they have a manufacturer, just like for the esc's. So I wonder who it is.

I'm curious if 14t instead of 13 would be still ok regarding the temperatures. But ther's no way for bashing at the moment here, wet snow... eeeh.

Losi is not producing the motors. Im almost positive its the same people that are producing their other systems.

The motor seems ok except for the bearings. The 1300 I had ran good for a little while, then the bearings went bad. Took it apart and they felt like worn out clutchbell bearings. Replace the stock ones with some good ceramics and the motor would be great.

For the price, I would go with CC or Medusa over losi. They both have a proven design and track record.

that might be right for the us, but not for europe: for a total cost or Eur 99,- I would never get a medusa or cc here in Germany. ordering in the us in most cases I have to pay customs and taxes. f

or that price I don't find an alternative motor, and feigao etc. aren't an alternative.

Don't see why you can't pick the CC stuff up in Europe though, the distribute there.

I dont't know if I get the cc-Neu-Motor only; I've seen -so far- the combo mmm for 289,-. Euro.

I had another ride today, still full throttle, but a bit less "insane" then last time, highest temp was 45 deg. on the motor, 50 deg on the pinion. I used a higher timing of 9 degrees. like this, power is absolutely sufficient... let's wait till its warmer outside. interesting point is, that the temperature is falling to 40 deg. quickly when I have a quick stop.

so far I am happy with the overall performance, for the money payed. losi belongs to horizon hobby, and they just have opened their business in germany, so the horizon, losi stuff etc. will be easier available here then cc. But reg. cc I might be wrong, as I never really thought about buying a mmm.

If its 289 euro's= $370 USD I would take a look into local stuff such as lehner, hacker, schulze, plettenberg kontronik etc... For $370 usd thats quite a bit in my opinion.

well, the brands you named aren't cheap either... these are more or less the high-end brands. I'd love to have an pletti or lehner, if I could afford it.

True.

Your temps are fine. Wait until its 80 degrees C. Then you'll have to worry.

yeah i was about to say germany is the motor capital of the world! what are you doing with a chinese made losi. i would have spent the money and got a hacker or a lmt. or a beastly plett.

many thanks for the replies. as for the hacker, I think I have heard that they get their motors manufactured in china, too. so many consumer goods are made in china, "china" doesn't always mean crappy. aren't the cc-Neu motors manufactured in china? regarding the magnets it seems that china is the main supplier; the german brand "flyware", who have some great motors too, get their magnets in china. but that's OT...

I'll have a further ride today, wheather is getting better, but so far I have to say the motor is worth its money. on the bottom line, it's more "expensive" then a bidproduct or UH motor, but by far better (bearings, heat, performance etc.).

regarding the temps, I'm still careful, but it seems that the temps are ok so far.

I guess the best motors are as followed
1. Plettenburg
2. Lmt
3. Neu
4. Hacker
5. Ccneu
6. Losi
7. Feigao
8. Bid product
9. Hobbycity

There is a big difference between products made in China by a European/American company vs. cheap Chinese clones reverse engineered by the Chinese and completely overseen by the Chinese. The Chinese tend to have a "it's good enough" attitude to quality and engineering whereas when they are strictly overseen by the European/American ownership that way of operation is not allowed.

Sorry, I hate to see motors ranked like this especially when it is poorly constructed and based off information that is lacking. You even forgot Medusa, which is light years better than Feigao. It is very debatable whether the CC Neu is any worse than the original neu, and there is really not much evidence to be able to separate any of the top three, since not very many have had two of either at the same time to report on.

For the losi motor, Losi sells a heatsink that clamps right on with screws. FYI, the Losi motor has similar internals compared to the the 1515 Neus. Both are 4 pole, 12 slot.

It shouldn't be the location of manufacturing that causes motors to be inefficient. It's the design. Its the variation from motor to motor that you get with cheap manufacturing, and it is that which causes bad reputations. I've had couple decent feigao motors and some bad ones.

You know you are hardcore if you have had and used at least 4 of those motors :lol: 2,3,5,and 7 are mine, any more than 4 is hopeless Linc

hey guys dont shoot me down! sorry guy did not mean to tick you off. this was a generalization. i have ran neu, hacker, cc, feiago. based on what others have reported i have a remade list . sorry i compleatly left out medusa .
1. Plettenburg
2. Lmt
3. Neu
4. Ccneu
5. hacker
6. medusa
7. Losi
8. Feigao
9. Bid product
10. Hobbycity

It's ok, just misleading to readers.

well whats your list?

I'd probably put Medusa before Hacker...

I dont think that 2-pole and 4-pole motors whould be in the same column... Should be divided up via poles.

I would put the Medusa below the Losi motors, based on built qaulity and performance. I'm sorry to say, but my c40L hacker still performs better then the 4800 50 medusa. The c50 hacker runs just as cool as the medusa.

I didn't see the Tekno Neu motors being listed.

was just going to say... also dont forget mega.:yes:

I agree, but this whole ranking is a biased system. Its hard to compare apples and oranges. Not all motors are equally and thoroughly test versus each other. And measuring motor quality is opinion-based. Some may say this and others disagree.

With that said, I'd rank this way.
1. Neu, Lehner, Pletts
4. CC/Neu
5. Medusa
6. Hacker
7.
8. Feigao
9.
10.
11. Hobby City

Based on what Ive seen heres what I think...

2-poles

1. LMT
2. Hacker
3. Feigao
4. BidProduct
5. Hobbycity

4-poles

1. Plettenberg
2. Neu
3. Mega-6-pole
4. Tekin Redline t8's
5. CC15's
6. Losi
7. Medusa

This is just my opinion though...

HAHA, I have owned the list save for the HC motors and bidproduct. Well, I do have the 5 of the kb45 motors, so I guess i do own a HC motor or two.

Well, here goes nothing:

1. Plett and Neu seem about tied. I have a feeling the plett if more powerful if you compare the actual rotor and windings, but Neu offer more options for winds and rotor length. Pletts have a nicer looking can and appear to have better quality internals, but no by much. Neu are cheaper here in the US and service is much better. I will also throw the CCNeu motor in here, as it is very nicely made, and with the limited experience I have with them, they perform very well. A diamond in the rough, IMO...

2. Lehner and the Hacker C50 lineup are about tied too. I have more experience with the C50 line, but the designs are identical, and the Hacker c50 motors are super high quality. If you prefer 2 pole over 4 pole (neu, medusa, plett) these are the motors to buy. Pricey, but what do you expect!

3. Medusa/Aveox. Medusa - Can't beat the price, and the QC seems good. I have a few motors, and only had an issue with one. It may have been a lemon, but I did not test enough to get a feel for it. The other motors have performed very well. Not as good as a Neu, but similar. Aveox - Steve Neu worked for aveox, so the motors are very similar. 36mm diamter, and use std threads so kinda weird. Great power, slightly less than a neu of the same length/spec, but I think they are more powerful than a medusa. Hard to find new, so not much point talking about them.

4. Hacker B50. Good motors, but not much better than the Feigaos that are basically clones. Better materials make them more efficient, run cooler. Not worth what Hacker charges for them, but if you get a deal on a used one go for it. 2 pole motors, so they will work with just about any esc.

5. Feigao. Honestly these are not that bad. Sure the magnets let go at higher rpms and they run hot. Ok, so maybe they are not that good, but compared to the even cheaper HC kd motors they are pretty good. Considering the price of a medusa, there is not much point buying these new. The vxl motor fits in here to. All are 2 pole.

6. KB45 L and Xl. Big motors, 30mm m4 bolt pattern, and 6mm shafts. Great deal for the money, and if you can turn the shaft down, or use the small selection of 6mm bore pinions, they will easily outperform any motor that costs even twice as much. They do not run all that hot in any application you would use a 1515 or an xl.

The rest of the motors listed are low end and should be avoided. Not sure about the Losi motor. Not many have tried it and compared it to a neu. Too expensive, IMO.

Linc you forgot mega?

I cant wait to hear the reveiws on the tekin redline t8 motors.

I do not have any experience with Mega yet. I have 2 NIB motors that I have yet to try in anything. Both are 8-10s motors, and I plan to test them with the hv emaxx I am currently building. Most likely will test with the lt-10 esc, as I like motor brakes!

Mega's are 6 pole...

My bad, forgot to sort that out. I was flying threw it and didnt have time to think. I was thinking that plettenberg was 6p to. :lol:

hi,

just recently I had to open the motor for cleaning. The front bearing broke, fortunately I had a proper one at home. Even that the motor is "closed", there was still quite a lot of dirt inside.

http://s10b.directupload.net/images/090502/d6vz4rml.jpg

unfortunately the kevlar-wrapping of the rotor/magnets is getting loose, after 3 times of fixing it with super-glue it seems ok. So far I couldn't get hold of the new black rotor here in Germany (in the us you get free replacement).

http://s2b.directupload.net/images/090502/ntonegbl.jpg

the front bearing is massive, dimensions are 16x8x5mm, and sits in a approx. 4-5mm frontplate. I really like the choice of 3m- and 4m-holes for mounting the motor. the bearing in the back is a bit smaller (14mm or so diam.). The axle is 8mm strong. Like that it seems that they did their homework, it all looks very solid. I have read that newer motors are equipped with the better rotors, which have a black carbon-fiber bonding. they are supposed to run cooler, too.

I use 5s lipos, performance is great, very good torque. Temperatures are ok, on soft sand the temps are up to 70 deg. C / 158 f, during normal hard abuse the temperatures are between 50 to 60 deg. c / 140 f. I have a buggy (looks like a cheap copy of a hyper 7) with truggy-wheels. weight like that is about 4,3 kg, which is no problem for the xcelorin.

I use two fans, the original losi heatsink is hard to get here. I need the fans as my chassis-construction is kind of "sealed", to keep the dirt out. but like that (even w. holes in the karo) the heat just stays inside. The temperatures might be lower with a NEU, but I am happy so far.

A negative point about losi brushless is the service/availability: I orderd the losi esc, after one month of waiting the shop told me that the're not available (any more?!); you can't get a replacement-rotor, neither the heatsink. there is no presence of losi. like that they won't get a significant marketshare... the motor would deserve more. The problem is, when nobody buys the product, nobody will buy it ('cause it's no good, otherwise somebody would buy it...)...

for that amount of money (compared to other motors available here) it's - in my point of view - a great motor. I would buy it again.

florian

Thanks for the review. Sounds like these are significantly better than their other motors.

my review is losi cheaped out on endbell to can screws.... ive had 2 motors where the scew heads sheered right off. support the motor and it will be a great motor for you

yeah, u're right with the motor screws, 3 of the screws the head broke, too. one of them I was able to replace. that's the only real weak point. simply replacing all the cheap screws would do the job. I should have known that before, now in 2 or 3 holes the rest of the screw sticks in the endbell... grrr...