Research for a 1:1 electric car
 

So I have decided to sell off a fair amount of my r/c and stero stuff, and focus on my larger projects. 1st up is getting the lightning over 500 wheel hp, and making it hook up. That is easy, and should set me back 3 grand or so...

So I was thinking about the future, I will be moving farther away from my business. I currently have a 3 mile round trip every day, and I will be moving out of the town to a place about 8 miles from the shop. So a 16 mile round trip. I will also have to drive about 4 miles to get to a gas station or supermarket, now it is less than a mile.

So I figured that I could make myself an electric car to do the commute, and running errands. Range can be as little as 30 miles, as I could charge it daily at work (3 phase setup there, so charging could be done faster and cheaper).

I have 2 current candidates in my fleet, a 97 4dr sentra, and a 98 lincoln mk8. Both are in a state of disrepair (mk8 flooded in katrina, and the sentra was involved in a minor front end collision). I am currently leaning towards the sentra, as it is lighter, and has 4 doors, plus it has more useable room to accomodate the various gadgets.

Now I have some elctrical knowledge, and plenty of mechanical capability. I also have a full body shop with frame and welding equipment, plus 2 machinists that I can call on. Plus my dad is a mech engineer with 40yrs experience in the space industry.

What I need is a bunch of info to read. I know that many here have looked into electric cars, and at least one guy has a project truck, not sure who though. Any online info that would cover DIY electric cars, motor selection, where to get a controller, etc...

Not looking to build a hot rod, 80hp and 100ft/lbs or torque would most likely be plenty. I will lighten the car as much as possible, and attemp to retain the factory weight balance. Not really worried about creature comforts, but A/C would be nice (might have to do some sort of stand alone setup, or a "swamp cooler").

The car has an auto tranny, but I figure that I can run a single speed setup, as I am not looking for much more than 60mph. I was actually considering mounting the motor directly to a small truck rear axle, and replacing the rear beam type axle of the sentra with that setup. Kinda like a golf cart. It is front wheel drive, but I would remove all of the drivetrain and cv axles. The use of a truck rear axle would give me some flexibility in gearing, as the ring and pinion can be altered somewhat. Finding an axle that is narrow enough may be a challenge, and i really do not want to narrow the housing (but i can do that if necessary).

I figure the car is setup for the bulk of the weight to be under the hood now, and the engine, associated parts like radiator, tranny and axles must weigh around 500-600lbs. So the batterys would go under the hood. Not sure what to use for batteries, deep cycle lead acid would be the cheapest, but heaviest choice. Maybe some optima blue tops, but they are closer to 200 a piece. Not sure if i want to get into lithium cells, depends what kind of chargers are available and the cost. I know that lithium should last longer...

I may be able to get m hands on the battery out of a hybrid escape, as the local ford dealership has one that has a damaged case (my buddy works there).

As far as the controller goes, I do want regen braking, and I would most likely air cool it, but can do liquid cooling too.

So any info or links would be greatly appreciated, as will your thoughts!

If you need some help with the labor I have lots of free time. I would love to see this come together for you. :yes:

I don't know if you have see this or not http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/vide...ic-Drag-Racing

zeropointbug was doing the conversion, haven't seen him here in a while.

Definately, Any help is greatly appreciated! I will be doing a ton of research, that is for sure.

Thanks, I did think it was ZPB... Never got around to looking up his profile.

Great news.
 

This is great news James since you already have a great facility and probably some good tools to do this. I have been watching this market for quite a while now, and there is a ton of good ideas out there already that can help inspire and lead anyone in the right direction for this project. I will say that the best platform on the market today is the "Tesla" company. This company is at the leading edge for electric vehicles. The Tesla sports car is number one right now with an impressive 0-60mph in 4 seconds, and a top speed in the area of 130mph. They are releasing a sedan version some time this year. The drivetrain is nothing new really, but they are using lithium ion technology for battery storage and seem to have pretty much perfected the method with one of the longest range parameters. I believe it is something like 100 miles or more.

The European "Smart Car" also has an electric version being driven in the UK that seems to be doing well. I hope you have some fun with this and seeing your reports in here will be a nice treat. Good luck with your project James.

Linc- I like it. I would lean toward the Sentra, also. Check out evparts.com. A 30kW motor/controller setup will run about $3000. You might have to upgrade to make 60mph. On batteries- Pb will be cheap, Li will be expensive. I would start with the Pb type. If it works well then sell them and put the money toward the Li batteries.

It's (conservatively) 200 miles per charge with the Roadster. :yes: I would think the sedan will have better mileage, if it isn't being made as powerful.

I know you were saying you dont want it to be a hotrod but in this link there could be some valuable info. When I first read about the White Zombie I would think instead of trying to run all that voltage, try increasing the capacity. I would go with the Sentra

I went through his site and the "Blur Meanie" looks to be more of what you are trying to do

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/bluemeanie.php

This is also an alternative to building it. Buy one that is not too expensive.
Zenn Car Motors

If you click "view" then "videos" and then "Rick Mercer Report" you can see a funny but informative interview with the CEO and a bit how they build it and also a test drive.

It's only got two doors but you can fit 20 cases of beer and a box of cereal in it.

I've looked at a bunch of EV forums and the best one I found was diyelectriccar.com. I was thinking about converting something a little smaller like a quad and I want to convert a car when I'm older. I am now converting an electric bike with a BL outrunnner from hobbycity...

Check this forum out, you'll like it.

First - I'm really interested in seeing what you end up determining a "fair amount" of your RC's is!!!!

I would almost give the nod to the Lincoln chassis. The Sentra chassis MAY not be able to handle the weight of the batteries, and the suspension might also suffer - but thats hard to determine right now.

Second, it sounds like you are looking at RWD - which also points towards the Lincoln.

Narrowing a rear end is EASY...dont spend much time worrying about that. You may even be able to find one out of a drag car or even a stock car. Advantage to that they are often set up with quick change gears, which will make it easy for you to change gearing if need be.

Will have to check this out, yay more reading!!!

20 cases of beer huh... Sounds like I need to move to a college town and start a delivery service!

Will do, thanks for the info!

After looking around a bit it seems like a may have to find another platform. Seems like the majority of conversions center around a manual tranny. Seems like direct drive is difficult to control, and having a clutch is a good idea. Plus the bulk on conversion kits seem to be made for manual trannies. I need to sign up to some of the ev forums and have a look at their builds. I read thru once guys online build of an s-10 last night. Seemed like alot of wiring and a dc to dc convertor was in there for some reason, he also had an alternator. Not sure why but I guess there is some reason for it. I need to do more reasearch on the electrical components, as theuy are obviously a bit more complicated than I thought.

I am also debating using a belt driven power steering pump to work the power steering and power brakes. I would go with manual steering and brakes, but that depends where I put the bulk of the battery weight. If it is in the back of the car I can probably go with out power steering. Seems like a fwd car would be best, most likely a honda as there seems to be quite a few conversion kits available for them. My motor on back axle may be a bit complex, as I had not take into account the need for forced air cooling for the motor. Plus I am not sure if I want to have 2 seperate battery sytems, one for the motor, and another lower voltage to run the rest of the lectrical system. I plan to keep this very simple, so I may not bother with anything other than running lights, no radio, ac or other stuff. Maybe the alternator is necessary for the headlights... not really sure right now.

I have alot of research to do...

The dc-dc converter runs things like lights and radio, IIRC. I don't know what the alternator would be for. Maybe regenerative braking?

I don't know if this has been posted, but the motors in the whit Zombie are two 9 inch electric fork lift motors running on a couple hundred volts of electricity.
there was article in a magazine, I read all about it.

Not a bad idea.
 

Thats not a bad idea finding an old electric forklift and using the motors and whatever else you can from it for the project. using an alternator would be best for running the vehicles electrical system seperately using just one 12 volt battery, which can run everything but the drive motors. Leaving you only to have to configure the drive/electrical system. You really don't want to drive this thing without power steering and power brakes. It would be way to uncomfortable to drive without them. A/C is easy once you setup the rest of the system. This can surely get complicated very quickly and it rarely gets done in a short time either. This kind of project can take a year or longer to get it rolling. Too bad we are not all living close enough to help you with the build and design.

I like the idea of some used/surplus parts... I will have to look into finding some used motors, and possibly controllers. Wonder if the forklift parts would work? I am guessing that they run on lower voltage that I plan to use.

What voltage do you plan to use?

I think I have a couple of 350 amp brushed controllers that are 24 volt.

They are made by Curtis Instruments. If you're interested, I can get you the model number and the spec sheet.

Definately... I wonder what they can handle?

I'll pm you tomorrow with the specs. I have to go to the shop and get the model number.

I do remember looking up features about them. Curtis makes a good line of controllers. IIRC, most of their models can be controlled with rotary or linear pots, or even pwm (such as a servo tester does or a receiver for that matter).

The sky is the limit. It all depends on how much money you wanna throw at it.

Here's their website:
http://www.curtisinstruments.com/

You have my e-mail, let me know what you're looking for and I'll try to help you the most I can.

Thanks James. I am all about doing this on the cheap... I can be quite inventive if necessary. I am wondering if I can run 2 motors together to double up on the power? I was planning to run 12 12v batteries in series for 144v... But I could do a 2p setup with half the voltage... Depends what is cheaper. I am sure the hv setup is better, especially considering the controller options.

you might find this interesting

White zombie electric car

Youtube video of white zombie

Definately! I just signed onto DIY electric forum. I now have alot of reading to do, kinda like when I got into bl r/c.

In the 6 months before I signed on this forum i read the entire thing, from the beginning. That was a job, and I still did not really understand till I had some experience.

That DIY electric car forum is boss!

I just was going to point you to a forklift motor sticky - http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...good-7598.html

Jesus! Someone is putting a 200kw 700v ac induction motor in a brand new BMW! I wish I had the money! http://www.evdrive.com/BMW_project/ACmotor.html#Oct08

Hey Linc,

Ok, I have some updated information on the controllers I mentioned.

They are Curtis 24 - 36 volt brushed controllers and they are 350amp versions.

Both are Model 1187. Each one should be good for 12,600 watts of power.

Thanks Sike. I will have to look up them and see if they will work...

Great info.
 

I printed out that BMW project to do some deep reading. This thing looks very interesting for sure. I have not seen any mention of how much it all cost him though?? The project looked very clean and top notch for components used. If the price was reasonable it sould be well worth doing just to get rid of gasoline costs. From everything I read he really did his homework and got his setup dialed in. I would like to see some specs on testing to see just how well it works. At any rate with linc having a nice shop and time on his hands it should be a very doable project for him. Good luck with that pimp.

That BMW project looks awesome. Can't wait to see that completed.

On the BMW project I don't think the motor or the controller is made anymroe. You know what, the motor is made but very hard to get and from what it sounds like the only controller that works with it isn't made anymore.

Before anyone attemps a project like this make sure to do LOTS of research. I'm just doing an electric bike and I feel almost in over my head.

Ok, time to bounce some ideas off you guys! I have started a thread over on DIY, but I figured I would get some input here.

Seems like my best be is to get a small vehicle with a manual tranny. Use the clutch and tranny with a premade motor adapter, and use a forklift motor. I have asked over at DIY for a link to cheapest adapter available, cause that part alone can be a grand...

No I am guessing that a large DC motor controller is very similar to a brushed motor esc... I am almost thinking that I could make my own mech unit... Maybe I will not get that ambitious, but it must be pretty simple.

Any ideas or thoughts...

Make sure a forklift motor is your best option. There might be better ones out there... BUT if you can get a used motor that would cut the motor price in half.

Are you saying you could build your own controller? That's be sweet!

BL 1:1 car.
 

Forklift motors are quite powerful and have a proven track record for performance and durability. I think it should work great if you get it geared correctly. I would think that the best way to come up with and adapter plate for the motor/tranny connection will be by making your own custom plate. Just by taking the motor mounting plate and the tranny mounting measurements and combining the two into one plate. If you do the drawings privately you should be able to get a CNC shop to cut it for you within a reasonable price range like a couple hundred $$$. I would be willing to bet that there are a few guys in here who would love to help with CAD work in order to get what you need for the CNC shop. Just acquiring the motor, tranny, and getting them mated together will be a huge milestone for your project. that should be the easy part. Actually getting the controller and system to work properly will be the real challenge I would think. This will more than likely be your toughest project yet James. Not like tinkering with a little R/C toy that is for sure. Have fun.

The mech parts will be the most difficult and time consuming part. I found a "how to" dvd about adapter making for 10 bucks, I will most likely buy it and see if it helps...

I have plenty of mech skill, built a few engines, trannys, axles, etc. The wiring and electrical parts should be easy. Everything I need is just plug and play... Almost ruins the fun!!! I will have my own "touches" on this conversion, that is for sure!

Make sure you post billions of pics.

Will do... Just need to do tons of research first!

Good luck.
 

I must say that I will be looking forward to seeing your completion post in a year or so, and that is if things go well. Still this is going to be one of those very cool reads that others will want to do on their own DIY. I sure hope your up for this one James. Nothing will be easy, but we know there are a lot oftalented people in here that can help with setup, diagnostics, theroy and whatever else one may need.

Just remember, Electric Horsepower is MUCH different than IC Horsepower.

For example, a 10,000 pound forklift carries around a 3000lb load with a top speed of 8mph. This uses a 6.6kw drive motor drawing energy from a 36 volt 1000ah lead acid battery. The Battery weighs 2850lb and gives 5 to 6 hours of runtime, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on use.

6.6kw or 6600 watts is only 8.85 horsepower.

There are Brushed DC versions AND also Brushless AC versions. The AC versions do have regerative breaking.

The AC versions do use sensors in the form of an encoder bearing. The upper bearing has a ring in it that rotates with the armature shaft. What appears to be 3 small magnets rotate on this, placed specifically at the point of phase shift. A hall sensor alerts the traction amp to armature position.

I've seen a few encoders go bad after about 12,000 hours of use. It's not a pretty sight to see a motor this size cog. :oh:

A Brushed setup would be cheaper to setup. But the Brushless version has advantages over the Brushed setup.

The AC (Brushless) motors are NOT a permanent magnet motor. They are strictly iron core stator motors.

Just remember, as you're checking out these high performance elaborate setups, it doesn't require 300 electric horsepower to accelerate REALLY hard.

Efficiency is everything if you want extended range and battery cycle life.

From my experience with working on electric forklifts, I can see most of the automotive conversion. The only debate in my mind is how to control the speed controller.

Control as far as I know, has to be done with a potientiometer or pwm.

A spring loaded pot, that when released returns to neutral, is what is used on the forklifts. This pot, returns positive signal voltage on the forward side, returns negative voltage on the reverse side.

As you press harder on the throttle, the voltage return increases and so does acceleration.

Neutral, of course, returns no voltage.

Where are you in your research? Talk to me here. LOL I'll help you anyway I can.

Research is your best friend and I've been at it for over 8yrs now. Some parts are cheap and some are very expensive. Cost will depend on what performance you want.

Yes, that's very true.

I would like to convert a Kawasaki Mule to electric. Or maybe build a custom version completely from scratch.

Using brushless hub motors, or a small motor on each wheel, it would be 4wd.

The less drivetrain, the better IMO. Less rotating mass means greater efficiency. This also means few wear items.

I've been holding off on a new vehicle purchase. I'm waiting for the Chevy Volt. It will be nice to see what systems they put into these vehicles.

I would like to get one and increase the range on it. Most limits involve a cost factor. LOL

I've spoken with a few people and the hub motors are nice, but they require an active drive system to act like a diff does so the vehicle won't spin out when it turns. Less drive train is best for efficiency, but to keep costs down one is needed. There are various places that sells 2-speed racing transmissions that are very light and if you couple that to a electric motor, the performance can be great. The Chevy Volt is just a poor example of what a big company can do. Only 40 miles range in electric mode, give me a break. Even Tesla can go further and they don't even use the best cells available. The Tzero is probably the best and the first to go longer then any electric. Now Tesla has a billionaire backing it up and AC Propulsion has been in the game for a long time, but Chevy with all that money can only accomplish 40 miles.