hobbywing ezrun 150A vs Mamba monster
 

sup guys,after many engines and engine rebuilds i am thru with nitro and taking the plundge into brushless i am planning to do my first nitro to brushless on my lst2. i plan on running 5s lipo with stock gearing 24/63. i am just having trouble deciding what motor/esc combo to use. its either the hobby wing 4465sl (2000 kv 150a esc) and the mamba monster (2200 kv 120a esc)does any body suggest either one to power such a heavy truck

I'm not really sure how the HobbyWing motors compare, but the MMM motors are a good design (based on Neu motors), so I would go with that. As far as the ESC itself goes, the MMM and 150A have similar specs. Each have the good points, so it depends on what is important to you (USA support/warranty, physical size, upgradability/programmability, price, etc)

Both ESC's have a good and bad point. As far as capability, looks like they will be about even. The MMM does have the luxury of laptop changing, but the EZ150A has the program card that can be easily programmed at the track, instead of pulling out a laptop and waiting to load. So both have pros and cons. As for motors...hard to say. I have both the NEU's and the HW-3674 motor here, and I have yet to pull the motor apart, but it doesn't look bad. I did notice that the endbell on the HW is held by screws, so somebody actually used some common sense in the build.

hi, the mmmv3 neu motor looks good but I hv enough of mmmv3 failure. I m trying HW150a esc but I will use my 2000kv medusa motor.HW150a has a program card which u can use a laptop or just at the track.

For the price of the HW it's worth trying. I will write a review on the HW after my 22th march race.

I hv race with HW100a plane esc with no prob just the brakes are hard brakes.

Happy deciding:)

Just for kicks we are doing a test tonight already. Just ran the MMM 2200 with 3S on my buddy's E-revo on the GPS. Swapping the HW150 in with the 2350KV motor to see if it will get even close to the same mph and temps, or is the motor alot more in-efficient....we'll find out. Same 3S and gearing.

BTW, the E-revo on 62/22 with 3S and 5.25" tires went 24.6mph.

I have a converted lst, and have tried a few motors, all with a monster esc. I really think is will be superior to the HW esc. As far as the motor goes, not sure of the castle motor will move that truck to almost 50mph. You may want to gear it down a bit, like a 22t pinion. And you will need a good 5s lipo, at least 150 amp cont rating, no maxamps...

FYI, I run a hacker c50 10xl (1600kv) on a 6s 4500 30c flightpower lipo. Gearing is 24/63 and I have the FOC gearset with the gears flipped for a bit less overall reduction. I have some badlands on it right now, but plan to put the lst2 wheels and tires on it. They are taller and heavier, so I am going to a 1521 1y (1577kv) and may drop to a 23t pinion. My current setup will get that 6s battery quite warm... Something to think about....

The MMMv3 has definitely had more real world testing done to it and (3 revisions later) it's probably more robust than the EZRUN-150A. The EZRUN system that my friends and I do have though have been really tough and reliable. What scares me though is that if the EZRUN-150 is as fragile as the first two MMM ESCs how will the HobbyWing customer service respond? I'm guessing not great. But I've never had to use their customer service so I'm not sure.

Ok guys....questions here.

We did a simple test here last night. We took 1 3S lipo peaked it on the hyperion. On the E-revo with the MMM 2200KV setup the truck went 24.6mph on the GPS. We then swapped in the EZ-150A with the 36-74 combo and the truck then went 30.5mph on the GPS. Swapped it back and forth twice....mph on both setups again was within .2mph everytime. SO, what is going on??? The 2200KV Neu vs a 2350KV HW motor their should not be 6mph difference with just KV alone. So one of the motors is either off on the KV. Both motors were ran with 15 deg of timing as well if that matters.

So, at first glance, it looks like the MMM/2200 combo is slower on the same voltage?

I would try to isolate where the difference is:

First, run the same motor/voltage/gearing/vehicle with different ESCs. If one ESC is faster that the other, it could simply be transmitter calibration. If both ESCs yield the same speed on the same motor, then it's a motor kv inaccuracy, or maybe one rates theirs unloaded, while the other rates theirs at an arbitrary load.

I will try that this evening. I will put the 2200KV motor back on and then simply try the two different ESC's.

Any more updates as to how the CC2200 compares to the HW2350?

-Brian

Yes....we swapped the HW motor with the MMM ESC, and the mph once again went down....hmm. I'm wondering what the difference is with the ESC's then, or is some settings different then the others. Don't know yet. Swapped the CC2200 motor in with the HW controller as well to try it and it picked up mph as well. So something is amiss....not sure what.

what radio are you using, you may need to turn the endpoints up for the throttle. I just ran into this swapping over to a dx3s. It may be close enough to give the hw full throttle, but not have enough travel to give full throttle on the mmm. Or recalibrate the esc to the radio to make sure you are getting full throttle.

Using a DX 2.0. The radio was setup for the MMM originally so the endpoints are setup fot it. The HW I set it up using the same endpoint going through their procedure.

I've heard of others having similar results. They loose some speed with the Mamba Monster.

How did the motor temps compare between the MMM and HW150 after the same running time? Seems like the HW150 should make the motor run hotter.

After about 10-15 mins of running hard on the street the MMM was around 100, the HW was around 115-120. Not a big difference, but when hooked to the HW ESC, the HW motor has a fan....so it NEVER gets hot with it. We ran the truck at the track Sat. after 15 laps (~15 mins) the motor was very cool with the twin fan setup from HW. I needless to say was impressed. My buddy bought the HW setup from me to replace his MMM 2200 combo. I still think for a true race setup though for long A-mains, I personally would run the MMM/Neu combo, but that is me. I like the setup...even if it gives up some mph. Nothing some re-gearing wouldn't solve.

Wondering why that is....


Also he has ran the setup all weekend and still running awesome and cool with even more aggressive gearing. No dead ESC yet due to (cheap lipo's :whistle:) either.

Do you think the HW150 would be a good combo paired with the CC/Neu 2200? Or maybe a 70 or 80mm Medusa?

Yeah...very much so. The HW 36-74 motor is awesome as well. I would love to test one against a Medusa.....I think they are probably very similar.

wat motor are you using the hobbywing 3674 or the 4465?

The 3674.....its a beast!

The only thing I can think of is that even at full tilt, the MMM isn't sending the full PWM signal to the motors. It can't be voltage drop or there would be a ton of heat on the ESC. Don't know if this was mentioned, but you should reclaibrate your radio to the ESC each time is is swapped. It's possible that the MMM isn't seeing the full throttle it expects at WOT, so it's really running at 95% instead of 100%. When calibrating a radio, I set the EPA to 100%, calibrate the ESC/radio, then boost the EPA to ~110% to ensure the ESC gets to full throttle and is unaffected by some throttle potentiometer "drift".

the revo is prob 2 to 3 pounds than my lst2 is gonna be. not sure if i wanna risk it .i think ima go with the 2000kv 4465 motor but then again wats 150kv!

jz, BrianG might be right on this one, but I've heard of people saying the Mamba Max was also faster then the Mamba Monster (Not sure if it was here or another forum) which is strange as they both share the same software. My only guess might be the different brainboard might be taking something away from the MMM.

what!!!!impossible

I had a thread on this 6 mos ago.I lost 4 mph in my E-revo going from a Quark 80b to a MM, Everything else the same.Gained 2 back when I went with the MMM. Something is going on ,I just wish someone would figure it out. I messed with settings , controllers and gpses and never could find the lost performance.Good thing the MMM could handle higher gearing .

My mistake. It was the thread asheck made, but it's not the only ESC that has shown the same results.

The 2350KV rating on the HobbyWing motor seems kind of high if it's intended for 5s and 6s setups.
5s @ 3.7v = 42550 rpm
6s @ 3.7v = 51060 rpm

Isn't that a bit much?

I highly doubt the EZRun motors would equal the CC/Neu ones considering the EZRuns are 2-pole while the CC/Neu are 4-pole (and Neu's designs, albeit mfr'd by CC, which may contract that to China).
The ESCs look equal. For me, the price difference was justifiable enough for me to give the EZRuns a try. I already have their 60A EZRun ESC and it runs great and can take a beating (survived a shorted motor). The opening of the ESCs from other threads shows very good mfg and at least very good drive FETs. If they thought that much about the output drive circuit, I wouldn't think they'd cheap out on the other components.
But motor vs. motor, the CC/Neu is better IMO.

I don't want to get into the debate of which motor is better, but we just ran on the track today, an endurance run to see if we would get the motor to thermal. The 3674 ran on the track for 1 hour exactly. Went through 2 sets of 4S batts in parallel and a little into the 3rd set. Motor never made it over 145 deg the entire hour after the 2nd and last pit for battery swap. That was around ~70 laps. Guess their motors are another valid motor people should now consider.....I am impressed. After running it, we GPS'd. 39.6mph on 62/22 gearing and 5.25" tall tires off the XTM XLB buggy.

Great review jzemaxx I have been following this thread waiting for somekind of confirmation that these HW motors/ESC are a good alternative.I bought sometime back a Bidproduct Motor and looking at the motor you would swear it was a quality motor.I tried this BP motor and after 20 minutes the motor just stopped.It was a 2600kv motor on 3s with a MMMv3.It ended up cracking the stator/magnet. Since then I stayed away from these types of motors.I found the Hobbywing motor seperately here for sale http://hobbiesbp.com

Wow, nice prices on that stuff. Wonder how reliable that store is though. This setup has really impressed me.....

HW 2350 failure at 6s:

http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?t=462665

Were the temps at 145 taken with the dual fan combo? Does anyone has a link to see the motor with the fans? My 7xl with dual 40mm fans and a novak heatsink can run 42mph continously as long as the fans keep running.

Another thing to consider is that just because the outside of the can is cool (with fans blowing on it) it doesn't mean that the inside is cool.

I'm glad that the ESC is holding up though, I might have to get it over the MMM when RC-Monster starts stocking them. I'm also interesting in the advanced programming card.

The ESC is awesome...programming card is definitely a must.

Just curious, how are the temps with the fan removed? I found the 80A to get pretty hot even with cool ambients. Of course, it was running a higher kv motor (Neu 1512/2d, kv=2650 on 4s) in a Hyper 8. I expect the 150A version to do better, but curious how much better.

jzemaxx - thanks for the review. I didn't mean that their motors sucked, but for performance, the 4-pole would seem to dominate. How do the HW 2350kV and CC/Neu 2200kV compare on acceleration and torque?

BrianG - Has any testing been done on the MMM w/o the fan to see how well it works without forced cooling? Just making sure that there's apples to apples comparisons when we're critiquing the HW EZRuns vs. the MMM.

p.s. I'm curious about that hobbiesbp place too. Their prices are really good!

I didn't get any temp readings, but just by hand, the MMM was much cooler with no fan. But that was on a Mugen MBX5 (CORR conversion) on 5s with a Neu 1512/2.5d. So, no, no real apple to apples comparison.

However, before I installed the HW80A, I was running this same buggy and battery setup on a Quark 125B. Those ESCs are known for running warm, and the Quark was cooler while running longer in summertime.