Looking for something to power my jato/pede Novak 5.5/6.5 or 5800?
 

I just got back from my trip to florida with the e-revo (8xl/9920/14 ib3800 cells) and it was a blast until the second to last day and it finally ate the revo diffs :( I will have pics/vids up soon though :)

I have run the novak 5800 system in my rustler/stampede for a long time now (shortly after they came out with the system). I have been pretty satisfied with it, but I am now looking into putting the jato suspension on my pede and getting a new system. Smooth drivability is pretty important for this truck, which is why im thinking I should stick with the sensored novak (that and the price).
I currently have a new in box ss5800 in my basement that I was contemplating putting in the pede or selling. Now that the new gtb 5.5/6.5 is out, can anyone compare it to the 5800? Sadly 5800 systems are not selling for much, so it looks like it would be about a 100 dollar upgrade to get a new 5.5/6.5 system. I would be running 90% on ib3800 7 cells and gp3300 7 cells (possibly some 6 cell packs on occasion). I was thinking I would go with the 5.5 for the most power, but I do enjoy longer run times. I have heard a lot of people generalizing the 6.5 for racing and 5.5 for bashing, but am wondering how big of a difference in run time they would have weighted against the power gain.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Isn't the gtb only rated for 6 cells? The 5.5 is the hottest of the motors. The challenge on the track is getting that power to the ground without swapping ends. the 6.5 is a bit milder and so on...
The big bonus with the gtb is its ability to run all of Novaks brushless motors, except the HV. Additionaly if you have the need to run brushed it can do that as well. I have a rebuilt sealed in box ss5800 that I have used in my xxxtII. I liked it and was able to stick with the nitro 1/10 pretty well save my driving. I may find a buyer for it and pick up the GTB though. It'd be nice to clear that triple consistently rather than having to downside the second jump. Frankly I'd unload what you have and go for a new 1/10. Not sure of the wisdom of switching things around?

I am pretty sure the gtb can handle 7 cells. I would rather have the power and dial it down than not have the power. I do want efficiency/run time though, as I may try racing it eventually and changing packs is not very time efficient.

I have been running rustlers/pedes for quite some time. I do know they take a lot more to be race worthy than other trucks, but I am very very familiar with them. I actually have the xxxt front suspension on my rustler right now (widens it, gives more travel) but I like the jato setup more because you gain a LOT moer travel and width. Since I am mostly a basher, I am thinking I will stay with my rustler/pede and do the jato suspension mod as it will be more offroad worthy than a stock t4 would be. I am not trying to take anything away from the other manufacturers, as I really like the t4, but I do like taking my trucks offroad and having the ability to have a higher ground clearance and more suspension travel is a plus.

Also what about the lrp/reedy motors and controllers? Does anyone know how those compare to the 5.5/6.5?

Input Voltage: 4-6 cells (1.2V/cell)
Footprint: 1.16” x 1.49” (29.5 x 37.8 mm)
Weight: 1.36 oz. (38.5 g)
Motor Limit: None (Compatible with all Novak 540-size brushless motors)
On-Resistance: 0.00040 ohms (per each phase -3); 0.00013 ohms (brushed mode)
Throttle Profiles: 5 brushless (2w/rev), 1 brushed
BEC: Heavy-duty 6V/3A

Velociti 5.5 Racing (5 1/2-turn), Velociti 6.5 Racing (6 1/2-turn), SS5800 (8 1/2-turn), and SS4300 (10 1/2-turn).

well thats no good! Really sticks a wrench in the gears of my plans. I only have 7 cells packs (two of which are brand new SXS ib3800s) that I would rather not hack to make 6 cells, not to mention I dont want to run 12 cells on the revo.

Well, some people are having good luck with the wanderer 340 / feigao 340 'c' motors in their 1/10th applications. The motors are a little small for something like an offroad if you ask me, but the lehner 4200 holds its own being small also.

The ss5800 you have can be run on 7 cells and it will be a beast still. No harm in trying it. It's no 8 turn motor, but it will hang with a 12 turn motor easy. The thing that made me switch off novak is how heavy the motors are.

I have run the ss5800 on 6-7 cells for a couple of years now and was pretty satisfied with it, but like most people am always in pursuit of more power.

looks like the lrp sphere controller can handle 7 cells, and as far as I know can run the novak motors. the controlleri s 180 compared to the novak gtb which is 170 (I am familar with novak and would probably prefer the novak, but looks like the lrp is the only 7 cell sensored option).

the 5.5 motor is 75 which would put the combo at 255 (unless I can find the controller used).

what cheap controllers can be run in 1/10? I dont know a whole lot about the smaller unsensored brushless setups. What could I get in an unsensored combo for 250ish?

I see the lehner 4200 is 150 where as the bk/feigao motors are 70-80. (I assume I would run an S can motor in a 1/10? thinking an L can would be too long) The S is a 540 size motor isnt it? a 340 seems like it would be a bit small. I do like to run m2ks most of the time so need it to haul a decent weight and decently hefty tires.

Now that I look at the controllers, looks like most are in the 200 dollar area putting the total near 300. What is the cheapest controller out there to handle this application that isnt junk?

The new mtroniks controllers are as cheap as it gets in price while still maintaing quality. Quite a few people have been having good luck with them running the feigao motors. I think they run around $150-180 depending on the model.

In the gtb, it isn't so much the controller that is the limiting factor, the motor is just too Hot, the '5.5' really can't take any more than 6 cells safely.

In my opinion the Mtroniks Pro is equal to the Uforce 75. If I was in your position id go with the Mtroniks Pro and a 380c 7t it should be right between the 5.5 and 6.5 when run on 6 cells and you could run up to 12 cells or 4s lipos on the controller. You can find this setup for about the price of the novak gtb.

t runtimes u getting on teh 8xL? i will ahve a 8xl revo soon, on 18 cells. Im just wondering wut type of runtiem range i woudl get. Hopeing for at least 15 minutes.

Where can I get the mtroniks pro controller and the 380c 7t motor? (can mike get them?)

would the sphere and 6.5 be a better choice for smoother running?

I got 15-20+ mins on the 8xl depending on what I was doing with it. At full throttle application 75% of the time (beach) i was getting around 14-15.

Since the Novak is sensored, it will be the smoothest running possible, but even sensored coggs when your almost out of radio range. Also, the GTB motor is a lot heavier than the 380c 7t. Mike is phasing out the Feigao stuff, but supposedly Wanderer will have the same version too? It never hurts to ask, otherwise starluckrc.com has them

The Mtroniks are great little units, waterproof as well as brilliant customer support. In your position I would go for one with a 380C-6L as this will have more torque/overall power than a regular 380c size. Plus it can be run on upto 8-9 cells if you wish. If Mike is unable to order these parts the shop Re-mix linked to has great prices on them.

I suggest that you go for the sphere/neo one setup for less than 300 dollars and yet you will notice great performance over the ss5800 motor. The neo one is like a hacker C40, but sensored and affordable. The neo one is actually a german made motor by LRP, they call it the vector motor in germany and neo one in the states with a reedy lable on it. Believe me, its a rocket and Mike has it.:)

the neo one is available in different turns right? I thought the lowest i saw was 9 turn?

You dont think it would be better to go the sphere 6.5/5.5 route?

Novak is good, but reedy is the master of motor designing since he won 24 ifmar world champion ships and his motors are always a top notch, not to mention that they are made with German level of quality. The 9t Neo is the lowest in turns, as far as I know, but in terms of power, you can compare it to a 8t hacker C40. Also the novaks are 195 watts rated, while the Neo is 250 watts rated. You can use it with seven cells, too.

The Neo One is a 6.5 wind, for comparison to the Novaks, if you absolutely insist on staying sensored and running 7 cells the LRP combo will work fine.

Also, Novak is known for bearings popping out of the motor can after some hard usage and their brushless controllers usually heat up alot. People I know who use the Sphere/ Neo setup did not find anything abnormal about them.

Hmm, I have seen a few burnt out LRP combo's locally - problems with the sensors in the motor are the most common, but then again they are quite a bit more popular around where I live than Novak so I'd expect to see more of them go.

It always depends on the user himself. Even the most durable system can be wrecked if it was used harshly. Yes the sensors are usually the problem, too.

The Neo1 Four Star is 5.5 turns and it's supposed to be equal to a 7 turn brushed motor. Also, the reedy and novak motors have the same rotor size as the hacker c40 and feigao 380 motors, so really, they will have the same overall power on 6-7 cells.

were are these pics and vids roost:p

They will hopefully be here shortly! They are all on my buddies laptop, and he had his wisdom teeth pulled so he is kind of out it.

I cant decide what to do right now for a new brushless..

I can keep the ss5800 I have now, which is a decent system, but more power is always nice.

OR, I can do the 9920 combo with an 8s motor for 225

OR I could go the mtroniks controller (which is better, for a pede? the truck or the pro?) with a 380c motor for 230/245

Hmmm I dont know which would be the best setup? Any help here?? I want smooth running with good power and efficiency on 7 cells (ib3800s and gp3300s)

Thanks guys

The Mtroniks controller will be much better than the 9920 on lower voltages - smoother, easier to control. The Pro or Truck will both work, personally I run a Truck for that extra safety margin but ran my Pro in a 1:10 truck all summer no problem.

The 540 8s would work well with either on 7 cells, a 380C-6L would work well as well. All Novak brushless motors use a 380 size rotor btw. Personally I run a 540 6s when only running 6-7 cells, with the right gearing and good batteries it really comes to life, but a lot of people will recommend against this motor as it needs good batteries to work well, and can be outrun by a 380 sized motor in conditions where torque isn't a factor.

Thanks, this is good info! (experience with specific motors/controllers is such a great deal more helpful than just hearsay and what manufacturers say!)

I do like torque, but being in a lightweight 1/10 with pretty small tires may not make a huge difference... What is the difference between the 380c 6l and the 6t? I noticed only the 6l is available with the "L" is it a longer can than the t's?

I have 2 new 7 cell ib 3800s SXS packs, and three reasonably old 7 cell stick gp3300s (are a bit flat, probably 35-50 runs on each)

How good does the gearing have to be to run well? I prefer setups that are not finnicky, as I change tire sizes a lot and it would be nice not having to mess around with pinions/spurs trying to find the perfect setup to make the motor happy.

Thanks again for your help! Anyone else who has experience with these setups feel free to chime in as well :)

The difference between a 380C 6t and a 6L is the L is 10mm longer, so produces extra torque. Somewhere between the potential power output of a 380 and a 540 sized motor I believe. It has the advantage of being able to spool up faster than a 540 but still have a good bit of torque. The shop that stocks it only has the 6L in stock as I guess its the only one in demand at the min.

Your batteries will work well with pretty much any motor you pick for your pede/jato. I have GP's that are older than yours (coming upto 50-60 runs) that work well with my 540 6s which is the most amp demanding motor (and most powerful on low voltages) i have.

The problem with a "one gear fits all" solution is if you gear for say pede sized tyres (5 inch), then put stadium truck tyres on (4 inch), your gonna loose a lot of top end. If you gear for stadium truck tyres then put pede size ones on you may hit have heat problems due to overgearing. Brushless is pretty tolerant to gearing in light cars but a lot of this depends on the motor. I have to re-gear my 540 6s when I change the tyres otherwise I loose out on acceleration quite a bit, because as your no doubt aware there's a sweet spot for any motor. I guess you could go for a happy medium if you really dislike having to mess with the gearing.

Well I dont mind that much (only takes a couple of minutes tops) I was mostly worried that it would be difficult to find the "sweet spot" in the 540 (or either of the motors for that matter)

I dont think it will really be a huge deal though. I usually prefer to gear down a tad anyway to keep things cool and keep acceleration quicker.

I am still at a loss at which motor to get! I know I will get the mtroniks Truck controller, but 380c 6l or 540 8s

If you were in my situation which would you go with? Would the 8s have less run time seeing as it is a 540 (but it is a slighty higher wind.. hmm)

I do like a good bit of runtime.

To be absolutely perfectly honest with you there's that many motors around that 30 people could recommend to you the "ideal" motors which are completely different, and they'd all be right.

In theory, the 380C 6L should get more runtime because the smaller rotor, takes less energy to turn, but the side effect of this is a drop in torque compared to a larger rotor. But being a lower wind it may make up for this, and revs slightly higher than the 540 8s. Its all swings and roundabouts, my personal preference is neither of them..my 540 6s (actually I have two, one Feigao branded, one Mtroniks branded) serves me well. But out of the two I would probably go for the 380C-6L.

Its not really that hard to find the sweet spot on gearing..all it takes is a bit of time, what most people I know do is just pick the top speed they want and gear accordingly for that, as long as it doesn't overheat anything it seems to work well as a starting point.

And just to help confuse you with the gearing a bit..to a point, a 540 will accelerate faster with higher gearing, because the time it takes to spool up anyway.

So at the end of the day I'd go for the 380C-6L over the 8s. With my setup (540 6s) I can dump a battery in 3-4 mins if I want to, so I wouldn't recommend it to you, although it may be more powerful than either of the other motors.

as for controllers i would go for the pro because i was told that the truck is VERY heavy and bulky and is the same internals. if i am not mistaken the only difference is the aluminum heatsink.

I guess I dont know why I said 8s...it could be any available 540 motor!

I guess I like the idea of a bigger can, figuring more torque, but then also higher amp draw. But on the flip side..if comparing to a smaller can, to reach a certain level of acceleration it would take more juice from the smaller motor to get the same affect.

So I guess it is any of the 540 motors and any of the 380 motors (but seems the slightly longer 380c 6l is a good option) What about like a 7-8t (380)? I really only want slightly more power than my novak ss 5800 is putting out on 7 cells. I really do enjoy my runtime rather than having a 50mph truck that dumps in 5 minutes.

And squee, thanks for the input. So the truck has the heatsink, making it bulkier? I guess it seems like the more expensive higher rated pro would be the more durable unit? I really dont mind the weight of it (im assuming it cant be too heavy) just as long as neither of them is overly large. I also wouldnt mind saving the 15-20 bucks over the pro if the truck isnt too bad.

The Truck ESC weighs 2x what the Pro does (around 120g). To be honest the heatsink makes it very bulky, but I like the extra insurance it offers. You could get away with the Pro no problem. The Truck in my opinion does have slightly different internals - at the very least it has different software, I know this because when I mentioned to Mtroniks I planed to run mine on low voltages for a while they offered to load an "optimized" version of the software, based on the Pro software onto it. Turns out after I got the ESC and ran it, there's no real need as its just as smooth as a Pro anyway.

It sounds like your best off with a 380-L motor. A 380C 7t or 8t will not offer more torque than a 6t, it will just rev lower and give less power. I have a 380 8t and 9t, and have heat issues with them after 10-15 mins of running on 7/8 cell batteries when geared for around 40mph in my truck (which weighs around 2.5kg..so maybe a bit heavier than yours).

At the end of the day even if you get a 380c-6L and decide you don't like it (which I find somewhat doubtful), they're worth a very good amount on Ebay. It will be quite a bit more powerful than your SS5800, but should offer very nice runtime as well. With my 380 8t (same kv as the 6L, but shorter can which is why I have heat issues) I was always getting 10-15 mins runtime (which is good, if I had any more, the motor would have overheated!).

Alright I think I will go with the 380c 6L. I think I may end up with the truck controller as it is cheaper, but we'll have to see how money goes in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks again for the help everybody!

Pictures of the e-revo in FL are in the revo forum for those who asked.