Lehner Motors
 

Hi,

I've got 3 questions about Lehner Motors. Well the following:
- How do Lehner Motors perform? Do they perform better than Plettenberg and NEU's?
- Where can I buy Lehner Motors? I prefer the cheapest of course, so it doesn't matter if it's in the US or Europe or somewhere else..
- Lehner's site says that the 19-series are the best for 1:8 cars. But on youtube, the most 1:8's I see with Lehner have got a 22-series motor. So, what is the best for 1:8, a 19-series or 22-series?


Thanks,

Patrick

A 19 series is best really, a 22 series are very big motors, and would have enough torque to reverse the earth's rotation.

I've seen 1930's been used in MT's, very quick spooling motor, expect 1500watts from that unit. But 1940, 1950's are more often used for 1:8 and MT's.

Sry, i never answered your question fully...

How do they perform? Well from what I have seen in the past is that they are the best 2 pole motor out there. They are easily up there with Neu's. If I remember correctly they might even be more powerful on a power density front. (Watts/g motor mass)

Wouldnt argue with that.

The only thing about Lehners sometimes is the odd shaft sizes they use on certain models, but so far as quality and power, they are amongst the best on my side of the pond. :yes:

IIRC, I saw graphs on their website, some setups were producing 95% peak efficiency, Neu's I think are around 92% peak efficiency... every percent higher makes a big difference as far as heat/temps is concerned. Don't quote me on that though.

For 1/8, a 1950/xx would be perfect. For one, they have a 5mm shaft. The other 19xx are 4mm or 1/8". IMO the Lehner motors are better quality than Neu. The rotors are not wrapped, yet I have never heard of one self-destructing, nor coming loose from the shaft. They have LOADS of torque compared to any other 2 pole motor, and probably some cheaper 4 pole motors. I have a 1940/7 in my Rusty on 6s. Wayyyyy overkill, I'm going to try it in my Ofna GTP one of these days...

I have seen the lehner segmented magnets crack and come of the shaft. For high rpm use they need to be kevlar wrapped...

I have some experience with the lehner motors and feel that the 4 pole neu is better designed for heavier vehicles.

^^ If anyone has seen them break, I figured you would. How many have you owned over the years???

Monster Mike I think (I think) tried out a 1930 in a maxx truck and said it was sick fast. Or Serum said this maybe?

Serum had the 1930/8 in a Revo

I use a 1930/8 in my 1/8th scale buggy, very fast spool up on that motor. I also use a 1940/7 in it as well for more speed (1930 will get a bit hot if geared up too much). I also have a little Lehner in my M18T.

They are the most powerful motor per pound. I think they may be slightly better than Neu's and far above Pletts (I don't like Pletts much). Finedesign is the only place in the US to get them. You can also order them direct from Lehner (expensive). If they were more readily available in the US, I would probably run them in everything.

I have heard the lehner motor compare to Medusa motors. Some people really like them and some people don't. The 2-pole design has it's advantages and disadvantages.

There aren't really any definitive advantages or disadvantages to either. Although, 4-pole motor might have better efficiency down low.

Well, I always thought the 4 pole would have more torque, but the 2 pole would "spool up faster". I think a 2-pole motor can withstand/is more efficient at higher rpms then a 4 pole motor. I'm sure there are other arguments too.

There may be advantages/disadvantages, but they may be very subtle and not even a factor nowadays. It kinda seems like sensored vs sensorless...

When I ran a Lehner in my CRT.5, it did great and had awesome power... until it self destructed. And now, I have no way of getting it warrantied since Lehner is in Germany. So I have an expensive Lehner motor just sitting here collecting dust...

Ive had a magnet break on a Lehner too.

Great motors IMO, but still too expensive. Get yourself a Neu.or maybe even 2 for the price of a Lehner.

Price combined with non existent service makes them not even a reasonable choice IMO.

Yeah, not worth it at all anymore... Mike doesn't carry them, headquarters in Germany, etc... and when I would buy from Finedesign, oh wait, I just heard, it IS snowing in hell.


I would like to see a direct comparison just for arguments sake... a Neu motor and a Lehner motor of equal mass (both being fin-less of course), equal Kv. and run them in the same truck, all things being equal, yada, yada, yada.

I believe byte lives next to germany, so service and warranty isn't an issue. Also buying a new neu in the US can get pretty expensive b/c we have to pay for shipping, 19% tax & some customs duties. So although a neu would still be cheaper than a lehner, the price difference is also less.

Thank you guys for your replies!

Well, drkdgglr is right, I live next to Germany so warranty wouldn't be a issue. But as you guys said: The only place to buy from is Fine-Design? (I heard the whole shop sucks) Isn't there an other shop maybe? (I prefer in Europe)

EDIT: Well I'm asking this because I'm still not sure what motor I want to put in my LST. ESC will be a Quark 125B (I prefer this one) or a MMM. And I'm not sure if I should get a Plettenberg Bigmaxximum, Lehner 1950/xx or a NEU/Castle 2200kv motor...
Anyone could help? (I'm going to run 5S)

We have 2 guys on our austrian forum running a Lehner 1950 in their truggys. A Lehner 1950 is comparable to a Neu 1515.

One of them managed to crack the first segment of his rotor while his plastic spur lost 2 tooths. He was running an old design Lehner 1950 without fan.

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/atta...1&d=1244365297

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/atta...1&d=1244365297
pictures from our member Josi on www.offroad-cult.org

Lehner changed the rotor design to prevent the first segment to crack (it's always the first segment that will crack when excess stress is applied on the shaft).

http://sites.google.com/site/planbpa...-8_Rotor_2.jpg

http://sites.google.com/site/planbpa...-8_Rotor_1.jpg

There is now an aluminium plate in front of the first segment and the magnet segments are covered.

When choosing the fan version of their motors you should cover the air intakes.
http://sites.google.com/site/planbpa...Luftfilter.jpg

A look inside a Lehner 1950 can. Windings are layed out very properly.
http://sites.google.com/site/planbpa...Gehaeuse_1.jpg
pictures taken from http://sites.google.com/site/planbparts/. Our moderator on http://www.offroad-cult.org

The easiest way to buy a lehner is to order it directly from Lehner. They provide a motor hotline but are more specialised on boat application.

An LST is a big and heavy monster truck. You would want at least a Neu 1515 (a 1518 would be even more appropriate) or a Lehner 1950. A lehner 2230 is comparable to a Lehner 1950 (powerwise) and would also be a good fit torquewise (a good choice for Muggys too). As you are replacing a nitro motor revving around 30000-35000rpm max you should choose a motor on 5s which gives you a comparable max RPM for proper gearing an good pinion selection. 5s x 3,7V x 1800kv = 33300rpm. Before choosing motor kv you might want to play with BrianG's speed calculator and have a look at how you will mount your motor and which pinion you will be able to fit.

I currently run two Lehners. I have a 1940/7 in my G2R (which started out on 4S, and went up to 5S, and now it goes back and forth between 5S and 6S) and a 1930/7 in my CRT.5 that usually sits on 3S but has seen 4S before.

Both are fantastic motors and I have nothing but good things to say about them. They run very very cool and have plenty of power. They are of excellent quality that is very comparable to (some have argued better than) a Neu. To be fair, there are also some who claim Neu motors are better.

In any case, the easiest way to imagine them is that both are great quality except the Neus are 4 pole and the Lehners are 2 pole.

The Neus generally have more torque, but the Lehner love to rev because of their 2 pole design.

I personally love high rev and top end power, so the Lehner fits me best. My G2R pulls very hard from a stop and keeps pumping to over 45mph with little sense of slowing.

They are great motors and don't hesitate on getting one.

However, I will agree that in the current situtation, they are far too expensive to purchase form Europe and the lack of support makes it worse. For this reason, I would just recommend a Neu if you plan to buy a motor.

Since you live in Europe, I'd go with a European motor. Buying a Neu would mean you'd have to pay insane shipping and taxes and then have to ship to the U.S. for any service that it may need (accidents can and often do happen). If you want a 2 pole get a Lehner, if you want more poles get a Plettenberg.

Medusa 3680: Cover up the holes in the front/backplate and fix the backplate with screws to the can. Best performance/Quality to price ratio.

since price doesn't seem to be an object buy the big maxximum.

people will argue over and over and back and forth over which motor is best and why, and they all have there points.

But there is no one that will argue that the big maxximum is the sexiest of motors, second only to its big brother, the bolido

Interesting conversation..

Just wondering how a Hacker C50 XL would compare in this bunch as well.. Any comments?

Lehner are very good motors. I have the lehner 4200 in my tc3. It trully seems to run better with more cells than with less. I never knew that little motor was so powerful until I recently put a 3s lipo on it. Sick speed and acceleration!
I also am witness that the Bigmaxximum is still the king (or maybe the prince) of the Big Powerful 18cell/6s Brushless motors. I have one, and I wouldn't trade it for nothing!

I believe Linc has some/lots of experience with the Hackers, but they dont seem to be on quite the same level as the others discussed so far? Alright if you are making a pink themed truck though... :eyes:

Well, with 419gr (14.78oz), 74,8mm (2,94 inches) and 2 poles i would say it plays in the same power league as a Neu 1515 or Lehner 1950. I know of one guy using this motor in his truggy. Watch this video from minute 7 on and you will see a truggy powered by a Hacker C50 XL9. Power to spare and he never reported temp issues running on 5s 5000mAh kokam lipos.

Inside a Hacker c 50 XL (looks well build too)

http://kstyba.bay.livefilestore.com/...P0bdeCA/14.JPG

http://kstyba.bay.livefilestore.com/...NU0U6UQ/16.JPG

http://kstyba.bay.livefilestore.com/...GH8xpXA/18.JPG

http://kstyba.bay.livefilestore.com/...GRgr-3g/19.JPG

pictures taken from user Red_bull on www.rc-car-driver.de

I have only used the basic series of Lehner. The 4200, 5300 and xl3100. All had power to spare at the topend. I also use the C50L hackers and like them alot. Rev happy monsters and mine sees 60K rpms on a frequent basis. I also use the Tekno neus, but they don't rev up as quick as the Lehner and Hackers. They do however have torque to spare.

Why is everyone mentioning "top end power", or more "torque".... have you guys forgotten that all of these motors have the same power curve over it's entire rpm range (whatever that may be).

The only thing that matters is watts with these motors... yes, each one might 'feel' a little different(it's all controller firmware), or sound different, but it all comes back to how efficient the design is... which indirectly affects the 'illusion' of how much torque it has, because you have to size each manufacturers motors a little differently because of heat constraints(because of efficiency)... get what I'm saying.

I could be wrong though.

If you live near Germany, just order the Lehner direct from them. For LST I would go 22 series.

The Pletts are very sexy motors but they have terrible warranty coverage, They blamed 2 different controllers for killing my Big Maxx twice. Had to pay for repairs (and shipping from US). Big maxx may survive on 5s whereas I was running 6s, but plett said they run on 6s all the time.

On the other hand I sent a Lehner in for warranty, and although it took a long time, they replaced it no questions asked.

And ultimately your power is limited by your batteries, always has, always will be.... wait, clean my mouth out, not so much anymore with these 40C lipo's.

I agree that batteries are more often than not, the weakest link in a brushless system these days. I asked about the Hacker C50 XL because I recently picked up one brand new for under one-fifty, a 10 XL (1650kv) with 5mm shaft. I have a Neu 1515 2.5d, a Tekno Neu 2d and a Medusa 36-60-1600 and just wanted something different to run in another vehicle. I could have gone with a CC 2200, but since I'm running 6s, wanted to keep things from winding up so much. I haven't tried Lehner yet, and probably won't unless one comes floating by for a steal.

Hmm, ZPB, I am not sure if I can concur with your statement. I think you are forgetting to throw efficiency in the mix.

My best example to date is the muggy I run. MMM with 6s 4500 30c flightpower lipo. I ran a Hacker c50 11xl and a neu 1521 1y. Same gearing, almost the same observed top speed, so kv must be pretty close with these motors. Since batt, esc, and motor temps were lower with the Neu I have to deduce that it is more efficient. The Hacker seemed to accelerate slightly faster, but since it was running warmer and the esc and batt were warmer it must have been pulling more amps to do this. The neu has more torque, no doubt about that, it will pull the wheels up at a higher speed than the hacker will.

I have owned 2 lehner motors, and they appear to be designed the same way as the hacker c50 series. Segmented magnet, and nicely laid windings. I did not run the lehners much, and did not have neus at the time to compare. I think the material quality of the winding must be better in the Lehner as they do run a bit cooler than the Hackers. I have run quite a few Hacker c50 L cans and think they are better than the medusa 60mm motors for buggy use.

I think that Plett makes a better motor than Neu, not much, but I did notice a difference. Problem with plett is the lack of kv choice. In the end I think Neu is the best motor for a larger heavier vehicle. A 1521 1y on 6s lipo with a MMM will move pretty much any 1/8 monster truck, and not have issues with big tires. That is what I will continue to run in my LST and Muggy.

If you (Byte) can get service from Lehner where you are go for it. If one of the plett models will fit the bill I would probably go for that over the lehner. Not sure about Hackers prices, if they are the same as the lehner prices I think the leher is a better motor.

Plett do make the best looking motor I have seen, very sexy!

I Love these Lehner motor!!! Total of 5 motors...
I run a Lehner Hi-amp 6 turn 1950
or a Lehner Hi-amp 11 turn 1950 in a custom built Lightning Truggy.

-RC8 Rc-Monster conversion chassis
very rare hard to find Lehner Hi-amp 7 turn 1940 with 5mm shaft

-Ofna Gtp with Lehner Hi-amp 7 turn 1940 with 5mm shaft.

-Custom BL 1/8 on road Sportwerks Mayhem with Lehner Hi-amp 8 turn with 4mm shaft.

Only one flaw I could find on these motors are the bearings.
If you want to replace them you can not find them.

Out of all the motors I've had/have.. My favourite are the Lehner motors... I've always had great luck with them motors... And when used properly, the efficiencies were just excellent... The Neus are nice too, but I like the lehner motors more... Like some other said, the only draw back were the old 4mm shafts.. that's was too odd.... the 5mm, 8mm and 10mm shafts are great... +1 for LMT..

I've had a 1920 LMT and a Medusa 50mm motor in my crt .5. Without a doubt the LMT was a better motor. The power out of that little thing was amazing.

Granted the medusa was a good motor, but its not an LMT. I haven't used a LMT on 1/8ths to compare to other Neus and Medusas, but its got to be close to Neu or better.

One thing tho, make sure you get a hi-amp version. I killed the solder traces on my non-HiAmp 1920 w/ too many amps and cried for a week.

The Hi-Amp version is AWESOME, period...

i have owned several Neu 1512's, 1515's, a 1527, 2215, etc. so after running only Neu i wanted to try some Hacker and Lehner motors. I bought a hacker b50 xl, a c50 xl and also picked up a huge lehner 2250 for my truggy. so i switched out my neu 1515 1y from my rc8t and put in the lehner 2250. i ran it only 5 minutes and it wasnt as fast as my neu, not as torquey, and had higher temps. i immediately took it out. i think the motor was a great motor still but i attribute the differences to it being 2 pole whereas the Neus are 4 pole motors. i dont know a lot about motors but i have heard that 4 pole have better low end grunt. not sure if this is true but my smaller neu seemed much more powerful than the lehner i tried. so now i am just waiting on a motor mount to put my hacker c50 xl 7turn in my losi 8b 2.0. it is also 2 pole and currently i have a neu 1515 1y in my buggy. everyone has been telling me that the hackers are insane fast. so i am hoping i am not disappointed. i really thought i would get more out of these german motors. with real cars i have only owned german made BMWs and Audis for years now and when it comes to real motors the germans squash american cars but so far with RC i am not convinced. i am hoping this hacker convinces me better.

but again its all prefernece. aqwut actually bought that lehner from me and that same week he bought a bunch of Neu 1527s and as he says above he likes lehners better. so maybe it is just a preference thing more than actual performance, idk?

anyway, so far my choice would be Neu if you are able to get them. and as far as getting them serviced i have been driving mine for a year now and have not had any issues. hopefully they continue to perform as they have.

Like said earlier in the thread, you are limited by your battery & ESC... any of these motors can push out some serious power... even the cheap motors.. I have my 2280-5 HA, and I don't think any Neu motor of the same weight could touch it...

I know by experience you really have to push some serious amps into the Hi-Amp motors to get a good efficiency.... less than 60Amps in that 2250-6 HA would cause heat issues...

Hey Ryu, that 2250 I got from you is powering my 1/5th scale... :) the 1527 powered the 1/5th scale as well. I found that the 1527 1.5D had noticeably more power at the start when compared the the 2250-6 HA, but soon after it started moving at maybe 20+ KPH the lehner Hi-Amp motor had more power, even being a few grams lighter... But that's just what I notice...

Lehner, Hacker, Neu, Plettenberg... they're all great prices.. but for the high quality motors(best bang for the buck), I would say get a neu motor.... I would keep buying neu motors just because of the great selling price..... but I would never hesitate to buy another Lehner motor either... Man, you know what..

THEY ARE ALL GREAT MOTORS!!! :yes: I like them all..

Wow, this thread is a bit old... Anyway, I'm also experimenting with some motors. Now I've got a Pletti Bigmaxximum in my LST. (Runs awesome cool and amazing power!) And a few weeks ago I bought a Hacker C50 14.4V. I'm thinking of buying a E-Maxx or something and put it in there, or I might put it in my Rustler VXL on 3S :lol: I hope that I'll get some NEU's and Lehner's in the future to compare some of these motors; Hacker, Lehner, Neu, Plettenberg