introducing new 1/8 120a car esc
 

hi,

I just have received my nev bl car esc. It's named "Jamara Flash 3000", and I'm pretty sure that the new controller of Graupner "genius 120r" is the same esc, just with a programming card included.

Maybe sooner or later you get a similar esc in the us, as they're made in China. It is a budget esc, capable for 120a continous and 150 burst. At the moment they are both available here in Germany, the Jamara for about 130 usd, the Graupner for about 185 usd.

built in:
http://s7.directupload.net/images/090829/uma2bcz6.jpg

http://s8.directupload.net/images/090827/clrk7mjr.jpg

There are 18 fets on both sides. the esc comes with a built in sbec.
The case is made of metal, that's good for cooling purposes.

There are 3 330 caps, could be more in my point of view.

Cables are 12 awg.

http://s4.directupload.net/images/090827/cf7werqn.jpg

http://s3.directupload.net/images/090827/mpusaata.jpg

http://s6.directupload.net/images/090827/acfe67e8.jpg

two short movies:
View My Video
Car is my "frankenstein's ride" hyper 7, unbreakable... because of concentrating on that brand new esc, I didn't see that tree...

View My Video

As for the settings, it has basic functions like drag brake, brake, start power, reverse etc. during the first ride, it was all ok, have to play with the break settings.

Overall quality is good so far.

the fan is acutally the wrong one, it's a 12v one, on 5v that's poor. changed the fan with a better one, and connectet it with the batteries. Or you have a 5v fan.

the temperatures have been around 35 degrees c/95 f after 10 on grass. almost no cogging, I was driving with low timing, as I have a four pole motor, medium would be better. startup is smooth, as you can see in the vids.

I hope tomorrow the wheather is getting better, so I can give you some more details on the esc.

florian

Where can these be purchased?

in any shop at least in Germany or in Europe, selling stuff of Graupner or Jamara; dunno which one is shipping overseas. I'll have a look.

I am thinking about adding two 1000uf power caps, by soldering them with a thin wire on the plus and minus directly at the esc.

My question to the expert is: where the actual caps are soldered at, there are also little thingens between plus and minus of the cap. looks like a little resistor.
http://s3.directupload.net/images/090829/gtxzffme.jpg

would it be dangerous to add some more caps w/out such resistors, just w. a wire to plus/minus (I must put the cap somewhere else)?

when I had the plane esc in use, I added a punch of caps, and it worked beautifully.

thanks
florian

I know the company that makes them and I asked them to make one with dual powerboards, but that was the last I've heard of them. They have a 90A 6S and a 35A 6S ESC with switching BEC.

Here is a picture of the 90A next to that 120A unit:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...6Sand90-6S.jpg

hey lutach,

somehow I am not surprised that you aleady know that esc... you're the pope of bl-ESC's! I am curious who the manufacturer is... do you have experience with those esc?

what do you think, adding two 1000uf low esr caps would be ok? I just don't trust those three 330uf caps. a guy here in germany just smoked his new esc, in his truggy on 6s and a medusa 3680... I want to avoid that w. some extra caps. I am running it on 5s in a loxi xcelorin 1700kv.

thanks for a hint,
florian

I contacted them also to see if they could make a higher voltage model for me, but no word yet from them. The manufacturer is in Taiwan and not China. I don't have any experiance with them, but they seem like a solid design. One member here was testing the 90A 3S esc, but I haven't asked him any more info. I told the manufacturer that a capacitor bank would be nicer as the ones on the ESC could break off due to high impact. I've seen small capacitors do ok, but I like higher and more capacitors just to be safe incase one fails. If the warranty is good for them, try it out. That will be the only real way to find out if it'll work out good.

I don't want to void the warranty, but I'll do it in a way that I can reverse it w/out a problem.

my plane esc's were very smooth and never exceeded 35 degrees c.,w some extra caps (at least doubled the capacity of uf).

for boat esc you can get massive cap banks, eg. by etti or yge. when its good for boats, it should be good for cars, too. especially, as we have higher peaks, and more partial load, different to boats. they have higher permanent amps. but not such high peaks, especially when breaking.

florian

I like big capacitor banks. Most that have used them do report a cooler running ESC.

If you're referring to the brown/orange colored chip that we see a portion of in your picture with a glob of solder on it's end terminal, that's a ceramic capacitor.

One word of advice on adding caps that are off-board, use as thick wire as you can. The purpose of the caps is to supply energy during those high demand moments (chang in acceleration such as immediate acceleration or immediate decel (i.e. braking)). If you use thin gauge wire, the wire will limit the amount of current the caps can provide and get more resistive.


Lutach -

The 90A version doesn't look like it has caps on it. Are there any?

Also, in your opinion, how do these compare to the Hobbywing ESCs? The HWs seem to use good components (at least for their output FETs) and are soldered pretty well (albeit in a ginormous sized package).

if you look at the picture there is an external cpacitor

Oh, I see it now. Haha. Looks like a small bank of 2 caps. Short wires that are fairly thick gauge...not bad.

I don't know how they compare against each other. Both ESCs are somewhat new and both will see a fair share of failures. Only time will tell how they stack up against each other.

Looks like this ESC was thrown together by a 10 year old. But if it performs and is reliable then if you wanted, you could make a custom case for it if you so desired.

I have to agree. Well, the seperate boards look ok, but what's with the crappy foam spacers? Poor design IMO.

And the metal case does little to help cooling. It's attached to the heatsink, but that is the only contact it makes, and even so, it's too thin to be of much use if mounted on a metal chassis.

The power board looks similar to a HobbyWing, but the brains are certainly different.

LOL, not offense, but the more I look at this thing, the more it makes me laugh. It just looks like the engineers were hired off the street, and given 1 week to design it.

They could've made a bigger version of the 90A to keep the same look going.

I've been running that 90A version for about a year now, with great success. Previously it was used with 4s2p A123 and a Great Planes Ammo 36-56-2600 in my Rustler geared 18/46. Now everything is the same, except 4s 3700mah 20C Lipo.

The ESC's software hasn't impressed me too much. But then again I have NO CLUE how to program it since it was given to me to test.

I knew you were going to come in here :lol:. I would like to kow if you have a 4 pole motor to test it out with?

I don't have any 1/10 scale 4pole motors to try, only 1/8. TBH this ESC doesn't seem like it would be up for handling the duties of 1/8, mainly because of braking.

Braking? U mean the braking isn't strong enough?

What about the dimensions and weight of these escs? They look kind of high quality except for those black sponge paddings.

had a short ride again today, once you got used to it, it's quite good.

startup is a bit coggy sometimes, maybe it's because of the 4 pole motor.

After I had again some closer looks today, I don't think it would break (?!), the casing is made of metal. only prob might be that it's not sealed, so dirt could get in.

together with a better 12v fan (attached to the batteries) it stayed almost cold.

after so many mmm, mgm or ezrun just burned w/out any reason, we should give that "budget esc" a chance.

I fixed the steering servo and will got for an other ride.

Here are the specs of the 120A, 90A and 35A 6S units:

120A:

LiPo Cell with / without BEC:2~6
BEC Type:Switching
Programmable BEC Voltage:Yes
BEC Output Current (Peak):3A(7A)
Current Rating(A):120A
Peak Current(A):170A
Weight(g):150
PCB Size(mm):60.0 x 43.5
BEC Output Voltage: 6V

90A:

LiPo Cell with / without BEC:2~6
BEC Type:Switching
Programmable BEC Voltage:Yes
BEC Output Current (Peak):3A(7A)
Current Rating(A):90A
Peak Current(A):130A
Weight(g):120
PCB Size(mm):42.0 x 37.0
BEC Output Voltage: 6V

35A:

LiPo Cell with / without BEC:2~6
BEC Type:Switching
Programmable BEC Voltage:Yes
BEC Output Current (Peak):3A(7A)
Current Rating(A):35A
Peak Current(A):50A
Weight(g):40
PCB Size(mm):37.0 x 25.0
BEC Output Voltage: 6V

Not enough capacitance on the small ESC, so the FETs would have to take the load of braking, which has been known to be a cause of ESC failure. The braking would probably be strong enough, though, but I wish I knew how to program it...

just had an other ride, on grass, wheather got better. I am still a bit insecure, and don't want to destroy my new toy...

5s zippy-r (about2 yrs old), 1700kv losi motor, truggy-wheels, most times full throttle, and not too hard breaking (due to the grip I had once a somersault)

My impressions so far:
good
- great throttle response
- esc stayed cool, don't know if it's the better fan or the two 1000uf caps, but cooler than yesterday. regarding the heavy wheels and the grass, that's pretty good.

not so good
-heavy cogging sometimes after breaking. but most times very soft startup.

the other's guy esc burned, when the car rolled backwards and then wanted to go forwards, heavy cogging, then smoked. he says that this cogging can kill an esc.

here's a pic of the graupner genius 80r, and you see that it's the same like small one above
http://s3.directupload.net/images/090830/zv4vsbtv.jpg
hope my pics work?!

My Schulze burned up when my truggy rolled backwards and when I applied a small amount of throttle to go forward (No cogging though). If the ESC cogs (Stutters), it's basically telling you it doesn't know where the rotor is and that can cause huge AMP spikes. If the ESC cogs a lot, you must stop immediately or risk loosing it or something else. It might just be a software issue due to the lack of testing or the ESC might just be made for 2 pole slotless motors.

I think I will remove reverse, to be on the safe side.

overall there is no cogging, and most times startup is very smooth. but the hard cogging (not that often) just does not feel healthy...

I definately can say that my modded plane esc's had less or no cogging, so thats new to me.

OK now that I know this, i feel worried about my MM and HW150A. So are sensored esc with sensored motors safe from this problem?

Will smaller pinions help prevent sensorless escs from burning up when a truck is rolling backwards and u give it a little throttle?

Speed controls are made different. Some will have a different firing sequence. Sensored ESC should not have an issue locating the rotor. A smaller pinion will lessen the load on the motor, but anything can cause a ESC (Or motor) to fail. If you have a ESC that offers a setting to completely brake before going forward, this should not be a problem and I know the Castle car controllers has this options.

hey lutach,

do you have a manual of that esc? I have NO clue how to change the settings, and they shipped the esc w. the wrong manual... the lipo-cupoff is pretty low, so it almost killed my batteries the other day.

a couple of times the esc was "off" suddenly, maybe it's a problem of the receiver, dunno yet. together with the new 12v fan attached to the batteries, the temps were around 35-40 deg. c after 3 batteries. the rest was ok, too.

thanks a lot,
florian

I don't, I haven't spoken with the manufacturer for a while now. My last e-mail to them was on 12/04/08. Did they send you the program card? They told me that every ESC was going to come with one.

the one esc sold by "Graupner", the Genius 120r, is sold with a card, and therefore costs a bit more then the one sold by "Jamara", the Flash 3000, which is sold w/out card. in some shops you can get the flash for about usd 120,- . the single programming of card of jamara is not available yet.

Those guys are just making a profit on the cards. They come with it from the factory. I don't blame them though. Now if they had the option for PC programming then they could charge it as it's an option from many places that does it. Jamara doesn't have the manual online? Send Jamara or Graupner an e-mail asking for the manual.

yeah, U're right, they're making profit with the cards. at least the jamara, which is w/out card, is cheaper. I've contacted graupner via their forum on www.gm-racing.de, which is usually the best way. In an other forum someone said that they are going to put the manual on the (Jamara?) web-page.

but when... it took me already 2 months to get the esc. the first one (version 1) just didn't work on 5 or 6s. summer passed by... I was so pissed-off.

update
 

hi,

short update:

the last runs have been good so far. The esc stays cool after 3 batteries, I think highest temps were around 40 deg celsius/104f, mainly around 30 deg / 86f (sunny warm weather). As I have truggy wheels on my buggy and the car is quite heavy (at least 4,3 kg), that's quite good.

Things I have changed: better 12v-fan (the original isn't that good), connected to the battery cables (running on 5s); attached two more 1000uf-caps; better motor-cables (6 qmm instead of 4 qmm). I wanted to add also new battery-cables, but postboned that, I was afraid to destroy something (all pretty close, dunno if a 6qmm cable fits into the board).
Some of you might think, wtf he's modding that esc. I just want to stay on the safe side, and I think that the cables and these little caps probably aren't sufficient for hard bashing and the moving mass of more then 4kg. I don't want to have peaks in voltage that kill the new esc, I just can't afford a new one at the moment...

Only problem during the last ride was that one of the new motor cables got unsoldered at the esc yesterday (after a 10 meter jump). Fortunately that didn't cause any further problems.

Cogging occurs when starting slowly, but honestly, that doesen't really matter.

The only problem is, that I still don't know how to change the settings. Lipo low Voltage is too low for my old zippy-r, drag-brake also too low. Still trying to find the proper manual...
florian

The ESC is manufactured in Taiwan by a company named SAE. I have two on hand for testing. They've proven themselve reliable after tens of runs with 6S LiPo + 4 pole Neu-Castle motor. Always come back cool after packs of run, thanks to the big and ALWAYS WORKING cooling fan. It could have been made much better if the designer pays more attention to dust sealing. The metal case feels cool, at least visually. Also the form factor is on par with the MMM, or even a little smaller footprint. Low speed starting algorithm is a key point where SAE still have space to work on.

hey himalaya,
thanks for that info. That is right, it's not dustproof at all. like that the esc should be located in a save place in the car. do you have a manual you could send me (pdf)?
cheers
florian

I don't have an electronic version of the manual, the one in my hand is paper form and was written in Chinese, and even worse, I lost it in the field. I'll contact the company to see if I can get a electronic version, or even better a electronic version in English.

The ESCs did come with a program box, but I never managed to figure out how to use it.

I can send you the manual. they sent me two different manuals yesterday, one for rtr and one for more options.

changed some things on the esc, as it didn't work today. I hava no idea what the problem was. at least the on/off switch was kaput and replaced it. also cleaned the inside, which was full of sand and dust. after about 10 lipos... further changed the caps, now running 3 1000uf caps, should be ok. not that much space, but it works...

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2191/reglerneu.jpg