Is the CDC for real?
 

Let me know what you all think, because here in NJ and Florida, my friends, family and I haven't heard of any of this what so called (In my opinion another man made crap) swine flu aka H1N1.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091210/..._med_swine_flu

"CDC: About 1 in 6 Americans have had swine flu

ATLANTA – Health officials now estimate that swine flu has sickened nearly 50 million Americans and killed nearly 10,000.

The new estimates mean about 1 in 6 Americans have had the illness. The figures were released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday.
The CDC also estimates that 200,000 people have been hospitalized since the virus was first identified in April though mid-November. That's the same amount that occurs normally in an entire flu season."

It's a bigger "threat" around highly populated areas, especially college campuses. A few weeks ago UCI (the school I go to) offered free H1N1 vaccines which I took advantage of. However, I would definitely say 1/6 is way too much. Out of everyone I talk to regularly or hear about, only 2-3 even got it. That's more like 1/15 at most.

I thought the same thing, 1 out of 6 is a very high number. My friend works in NYC and he hasn't seen any case yet. He asked me a few times where are the numbers coming from and I told him I had no idea.

2 people I know personally have had it and the wife of one of those passed away from it. So, I know of 3 people that have had it. Another thing to consider is that some folks get it but show no symptons and are largely unaffected by it, yet they would test positive for H1N1. So there is a large amount of folks that have/had it and don't even know because they're unaffected by it.

Seems like it would make that whole 1/6 a true estimate then... if the doctor's don't know who does/doesn't have it without being tested then I'm at a loss how the CDC would know. Maybe they've got some advanced camera that displays a certain frequency that only H1N1-infected people emit?

Fancy stats and modelling I'm sure. Its not like they are going to test that many people, but they can make inferences from they tested levels of infections and the types of populations that are being tested.

IDK if its right or not.

I do know I have two small kids in daycare, and they always bring home lots of bugs. Had a few nasty colds recently that went on for a while. Who knows if that's SF and no one got that ill from it. Hard to say

Was it the swine flu or was it a misdiagnosed flu? Was she healthy? They say people who they have reported passing away from swine flu also had other problems and the swine flu just made it worse, but even the flu could've done it as well. I just hope nobody passes away or gets some sort of other problems after they take the vaccine.

One thing that is very strange was how this swine flu thing got started and the time it got started. I've been watching the big pharmaceuticals and mainly the ones that makes the vaccines. They sure are profiting from it and every positive news that came out the stock would just shoot upwards. Kind of strange and the same can be seen of any public traded company involved in the war.

It's not only weak people that pass away from the swine flu. In the Netherlands a few perfectly healthy kids, I believe up to about 14yrs old, passed away. As a result all infants from 6 months to 4yrs old have had a vaccin.

Pig flu is definately very serious- several perfectly healthy people have died of in the UK, and quite saddly several mothers who were pregnant & whom had recently given birth. Where I work, (Britannia Royal Naval College) there were several cases- those infected were students and had to be quarantined for over a week..

Luc did you see this back in about March/April... http://preventdisease.com/news/09/031109_baxter.shtml

Kind of makes one wonder doesn't it?

I read many things on viruses being grown in labs. I followed a few stories of the Soviet Union doing it and the US.

What are Nature's viruses and diseases? I would rather get something nature made then man made if you know what I mean.

Animals are known for their immune system's ability to kill viruses and/or diseases and that's why some antidotes are obtained by injecting horses I believe (And a crazy man in Florida I think lol). So my questions are: How did the pigs get it? How did the birds get it?

It's all media hype. People were going nuts trying to get the vaccine because "people were dieing". From the few deaths I heard of locally, all of them had underlying illnesses(not to say healthy people won't die from it, they do).

But your odds of dieing on the way to or from work are better than dieing from swine flue....

Luc can you PM me your email addy again please?

Bah! These so-called "epidemics" are probably just the gov't way of keeping people in a panic so they don't think about things that really matter, like exhorbitant taxes and gov't corruption. Some people are simply not happy unless there is some drama, and the CDC provides it.

It was definitely H1N1 as they were tested specifically for it. The lady that passed away apparently didn't like to go to doctors so it's likely her symptoms were quite bad when she got to the hospital. She was admitted, I believe on a Sunday and passed away on Weds of the same week.

One of the problems with H1N1 is that if affects you and you're not treated quickly, you stand a good chance of it causing pneumonia. Folks die from that all the time, so it's really not something to play around with if you have any symptoms.

An onion consists of many layers, each one more pungent.

I'm gonna leave it at that....

Yes and the Gov will always come up with new ways to do it.

Thanks, I made sure I saved it.

This is a very touchy subject, I'm not trying to 'inject' any drama.

Just a matter of interest for certain folks, and if you have some yourself, do research further.

I just figure something is gonna get us no matter what. Whether that is cigarettes, some special flu, bus, airplane, cancer, etc - when it's time to go, it's time to go.

I don't see this as being any different that smallpox or the plague back in the day. As we get better at curing things, there will be another deadly disease waiting around the corner.

I agree Brian, and the fact is most of us probably should have bitten it anywhere from a hundred to a thousand close-calls ago... :angel:

Are you talking about monoclonal antibodies?

As far as the latter is concerned, animals are common reservoirs to many diseases. Some viruses can move between species quite easily, and may linger in one animal population, fairly innocuously to that animal, then be spread to another species with much more devastating results.

EG. West Nile Virus has a reservoir in birds, and can be transmitted to humans and horses via insect vectors (ticks and mozzies..) WNV has had some human casualties, but it has been much more devastating to horse populations in the US.

Really it looks like we've been quite lucky w/ SF. It could have been much worse, and there certainly have been very deadly flu outbreaks. Considering just how small and interconnected the world has become, as well as far more populated since the last major outbreaks, a truly lethal strain could be extremely devastating. Given enough time, one will emerge.

The media may be over-hyped it, but no one really knew wth was going on, plus the media over-hypes everything. (eg: y2k.) Esp given the time back in March when everyone thought the world was ending, a deadly global pandemic just seemed apropos.

dunno about 1 in 6, I do know that when I was hositalized at the beginning of Nov. that the hospital was overwhelmed with flu cases. I was in for a urinary tract infection, but any movement anywhere in the hospital required a mask, and I was basically quarantined for the first two days until they could prove I didn't have H1N1. Everyone working was overwhelmed by all the flu cases. So, I saw a lot...

I got sick recently and assumed it was H1N1. I got over it in 4 days though, which makes me doubt whether I really had it or not. I did sleep like 12 hours a day though.

ive never had a flu shot in my life and ive never had the flu, yet every one of my friends every year gets the flu some time or another and they all have their shots a month or more before hand......

last needle i had in me was when i broke my back, and before that it was my knees and then when i had blood transfusions when i was 9, i dont mind needles at all but ive always avoided taking any form of common medication and getting any seasonal shots.

Same here. I avoid taking whatever I can unless I really need it.

I never understood why people run to the doctors and get a boatload of antibiotics when they have a small cough, or take a bunch of Tylenol when they have a small headache.

I have terrible allergies (so bad that out of 365 days a year, a good 350 my nose is stuffy), and yet I only reserve taking my allergy meds for the really bad days (days where my eyes get puffy and watery and I literally sneeze every 30 seconds).

My point is you take this stuff when you don't need it, all you are doing is making it less effective when you do need it.

I never had or even heard about the flu when I used to live in Brasil. The moment my brother and I moved to the US and had to get a vaccine to get into the school, yes I stayed home for 2 weeks with the flu.

I know animal's immune system is way better then ours and to hear the viruses comes from them is kind of crazy. Now I know many will carry diseases, but from what I know they might be nature's own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivenom

If animals are used to get us those, then a little virus wouldn't phase them.

Up here in Ontario, Canada, the government with the help of the media are working very hard to scare people into getting this H1N1 vaccine. People are in a panic over it, line ups of 9 hours and more at make shift flu clinics to administer the vaccine. People are sheep. I had a flu shot given to me once in my life, I was sick all winter that year. I never got one again. I don't plan on getting this H1N1 vaccine and no one will inject this vaccine in my boy's blood stream. It's got Mercury in it. And I just don't like the fact that it usually takes around 9 months to develop and test a new vaccine and this one was ready in a third of that time. I don't trust it and I don't trust any info that is forced fed to the public from the governments.

MrCrash- thimerosol has been present in vaccines since day one IIRC, it's used as a "preservative". Was supposed to have been removed, but never really was.

Well, does anyone else fail to see the logic in that?

Pretty well known it's quite an anti- preservative for us!

For some more fun reading, do a search on flouridated water, especially if you have kids...

What is wierd is that the media hyped up swine flu for awhile there. Now you really don't hear anything about it.

Sanofi is recalling their pediatric H1N1 vaccine because it's not potent enough? What the F is wrong with them? From what I know, vaccines are supposed to contain the dead virus and our poor body is supposed to become immune to it, so how do you make it more potent? So what went wrong? Not enough testing, not enough people falling for it, not enough profit?

Question for the people who works or have any contact with the pharma giants.

How do I get my hands on all the vaccines in the US, so I can send them to the group of people doing my research?

Its a specific group of vaccines that is being recalled, yet the details are light from the story, and I don't see anything on the FDA or Sanofi website giving more info.

However, a recall does not mean the product is bad. I know there have been problem getting a strong immune response in young kids, so they did up the dosage to two rounds for kids. Could be that this lot is responding poorly, or some outside chance of a misformulation. I can guarantee you the phones are very busy right now over at Sanofi and the FDA right now. We'll find out soon enough.

Vaccines are controlled substances. They are not something anyone can just get their hands on.

To some of the larger points:

Thimerisol has been removed from a large number of vaccines. There are a number of H1N1 vaccines w/o Thimerisol and can be requested.

However, a signifigant heath risk of Thimerisol has not been demonstrated. I know its a controversal subject with lots of strong opinions, and I know Luc's personal interest, so I don't mean to be offensive.

However, I think its very fair to say that if the danger's of H1N1 have been over hyped, so too have been the dangers of Thimerisol. (from New England Journal of Med.) The data just isn't there establishing a link. Is mercury good for you? Of course not. But, you have to look at the total spectrum of risk. Mercury is in the water, esp near coal-burning areas, as well as in many commonly eaten species of fish. Tuna, swordfish, red snapper, etc. This is a form of mercury that is less well excreted than the form in the vaccines.

So what you have to determine, how does the once a year injection of the Thimerisol (if any) compare to all the chronic mercury exposure you receive over the year from your diet and environment? Each person has to make up his own mind on the levels of risk.

It is absolutely true tho that the dangers of flu are very real. 36000 (est) people die of flu ea year in the US. Hundreds of those are children.
I can tell you as a parent of two small kids (1 & 3yo) in daycare, I far more worry about them catching something there than the thimerisol exposure they will recieve from the vaccines. They always have some bug or another, and a flu outbreak is very possible, esp if many parents don't get their kids vaccinated. Again, ea person has to make this calculus.

Lastly, skepticism is healthy, but I think its fair to apply it in both directions. It makes me very skepitcal to see websites that extol the dangers of mercury meanwhile selling expensive potions and poultices for "mercury detox." Products with dubious medical claims, none of which is evaluated by FDA or clinical trials, and has no manufacturing regulations? No thank you, I'll rather trust the professionals backed up with real studies and data. There are people that have died taking stuff like that.

None of the claims on that site even make much sense to me. They are long on references, but all their claims boil down to "hey, doesn't this (vague and nebulous) condition seem oddly similar to this condition for mercury poisoning?" Shyness and fatigue? As if no one else has that.

I don't understand the widespread cynicism and distrust of science these days. Then again, if less than 40% of the country believes in evolution (which, as a degreed biologist and professional scientist, is like asking whether you believe in gravity or not,) ....IDK.



So why would gov'ts be pushing the vaccines? Beyond general public health concerns, hospitalizing hundreds of thousands of people every year for flu complications, which many could have been avoided had they been vaccinated, is extremely expensive. Esp if the gov't is on the hook for the medical bills thru state-run programs. $50 for a flu shot vs $50,000 for a hospital stay is a no brainer. Simply pissing tax $ away. Ins companies will be doing the same too.

How can they make it more potent? Will they be adding more dead viruses in the vaccine?

I have no idea what is going w/ that. It was supposed to be a slow growing virus, maybe there were problems w/ that. Perhaps its just showing low immune response to the virus (as was seen earlier, and kids got upped to 2 rounds) and may require some reformulation of the injectible (say for a higher titer count.)

They are saying tho that kids who recieved that vaccine won't need additional shots, nor was it done for safety reasons. Important point.

There is continous monitoring and testing that is going on w/ the vaccine, so they probably saw something that wasn't going as well as hoped. So far it was only Sanofi, and not any of the other 3 manu's. We shall see.

Ok, I'll be watching. I'm also hoping I can get most of the vaccines to do some independent research to find out what's actually in them. I really don't understand why our kids here in the US needs all of these vaccines and the numbers shows a lot of side effects from the time they all came into play. My uncles and a few other people can't answer none of the questions as well, but they know some of the things that can cause side effects.

Hi lutac, I had the Swine flu (or so the doctors said that's what I had) almost two months ago and I don't remember ever being that sick before. My fever shot up to almost 105F I felt like I had been beat all over with a baseball bat. Spent four days in the hospital wondering if this was it for my old a$$:angel: It took another three weeks before I began too feel normal again. Well as normal as it gets for me. Oh BTW I'm 55+:gasp: I should add I live in the middle TN area.
georgec

The only time I remember getting the Flu was when I took a vaccine to get into school here in the US. The reaction I had to the vaccine was almost immediate. You're still young George and I'll bet it was just the Flu.

So basically they're saying the vaccines lost its strength from sitting on the shelf. That shows me that a lot of people are not falling for this trap. Now the other concern comes up, what will they do to make the vaccines last longer on the shelf?

Thanks lutac, I don't feel old, I think this hobby helps keep me young at heart. I also think you are correct that this H1N1 is just allot of media driven hype that allows the drug companies to acquire huge government contracts and dump their worthless meds on the unsuspecting public.
Just my .02 worth, georgec