Losi Ten-T Conversion
 

As said in another thread, I picked up a Losi Ten-T 10th scale truggy today at the LHS. Took it home, and proceeded to tear out the nitro stuff. Now that everything is out, I can list a few observations:

- The combination of telemetry and ROSS creates a whole lot of wiring! There is a channel along the radio box to lipo/ROSS box where all the wires are routed, and it was a PITA getting the wires out! And in that tangle are 2 servo extensions. There are little slots where the wires enter, and it was tough getting the connector ends through those slots. You have to remove the whole radio/lipo box to do it right, and even then it's not easy. I would hate to be the one to have to replace a servo or whatever if kept in its stock form.

- There's a mix of metric and standard screws. WTF? Is this typical for Losi? The kit comes with the necessary tools, but they are just crappy L hex wrenches. Once I modded the radio box, I replaced the std screws with metric ones to make it easy for myself.

- The center diff. Diff orientation is not "brushless friendly" and will to be flipped to mount the motor on the right side where it belongs. Which also means that either more chassis has to be cut out to clear the spur, or lift the CD up a bit. The spur is a plastic 44T Mod1 gear, but the way the teeth are shaped makes it look like 32p. It's odd. I think I'll see if Mike can make the mount so that a standard CD with a Kyosho 44T spur can be used. Or maybe lift the CD and slot the chassis so a normal 46T spur can fit there. The different between 44T and 46T is only 1mm radius, so that's not a big deal.

- With the diff moved over, there is PLENTY of room for pretty much any lipo pack you want. My 5s 5Ah pack fits with plenty of extra room. This pack is ~145mm long, but there is still room if front/rear of the battery for the ESC. A MMM can even fit there. If the motor is put on the typical side, the screw for the mudguard will get in the way. So, whatever mount is used will have to sit the motor up a little to clear this.

- The little "hubcap" that covers the wheel screw is purely cosmetic. Three tiny screws (looks like 6, but only 3 are actually screws) hold it in place. I'm gonna keep them off because it would just be a PITA to change tires when racing/bashing.

Some vehicle facts:

- In roller form (no motor, ESC, battery, mount, batt tray, tires) the vehicle weighs 4 lbs, 10oz. Each stock tire weighs 125g.

- The rims use 14mm hexes.

Below are some pics with all the smelly nitro stuff removed. If you want to see the original pics in stock form, the Losi website has those:

Sorry about the fuzzy pic, I didn't realize the camera wasn't in focus. This one is just showing the CD and you can see it well enough.

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_1.jpg

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_2.jpg

Thats' Awsome mate,looking forward to seeing the end result.I've been keen to do this aswell .

I want one of these so bad

Kinda sounds like this one is gonna take a little bit of work. I'm very interested to see what Mike is gonna come up with.

Looks alot like an 8ight b/t layout. What would be the benefit of this over an 1/8 buggy? Weight? Any chance you can get an overhead pic of the truck next to a 1/8 buggy?

My camera batts are dead, but the length between wheel nuts is just about the same. The Ten is about 1" wider. I think the biggest thing is weight. At about 4.5lbs as a roller, it'll be about 6-7 lbs fully loaded.

Figure out what the diff ratio is yet? I would be curious as it sounds like it would be a good canidate for a MMM/2650 on 3s as long as you wouldn't need like a 5tooth pinion to keep a decent speed.

35/9, which is 3.889:1.

While looking that up, I found that the spur is actually 48T. I measured it at 46mm, and since a Mod1 pinion rolled across it without binding, I assumed it was Mod1. Well, it has to be something else, maybe a "shallow" Mod1? It does look a bit odd.

If you get these parts from Mike before us lowly forum members get our cd/motor mounts I'm calling shenanigans!:lol:

Mods/admins have preferential treatment. :na: Actually, I was talking to him today and he was gonna get one of these vehicles so he could develop a mount anyway. So, my vehicle is going to be for the greater good! :smile:

I just did more playing around with the center diff spur. It measures exactly 44.44mm in diameter, and has 48 teeth. That does not match either Mod1 nor 32p, but is somewhere in between. After doing a little calculation, the pitch is actually 28.578p, or Mod 0.889. I knew it didn't look right.!Both 32p and Mod1 gears roll somewhat smoothly without skipping, but don't mesh perfectly.

BTW, the formula for finding the pitch is:

pitch = (tooth_count+2) / (gear_diameter/25.4)

module = 25.4/pitch

So, Losi decided to really do some weird stuff here with the gears. The easiest thing to do would be to convert to Mod1 or 32p. But as I said, the diff has to be flipped around, which means the diff has to be raised to clear the chassis. To minimize the amount of height increase of the CD, a Revo 40T spur could be used, which is 42mm in diameter. This knocks off 1mm from the radius of the stock spur, which means it will fit without raising the CD much. And the 40T spur with a 12T pinion, along with the 4.41" tires, creates a speed of 30mph@30k rpm. Yeah, a little slow for some, but increasing the pinion to 14T creates a 35mph speed while not gearing up too high. And/or get a motor/voltage combo to get 35k rpm and the 12T pinion gets you 35mph. 14T would get you a little over 40mph.

Sounds like a big mess.... I may have to give the 4x4 slash a go. Some al shock caps and rpm lower arms... Who knows it might be worth a carp... Fishy!!!

I was also thinking of one of these...but reading this post...I may reconsider.

I really don't think it's a big deal guys. There are a few stumbling blocks, but nothing that can't easily be overcome. The CD is actually longer than a standard 8th scale diff, so there's plenty of room for an adaptor plate in which to bolt the Revo spur. The stock CD placement is perfect for motor/battery balance, there's plenty of room to use whatever motor/battery you want, and when the battery/motor is installed there will be a lot less wasted space so it will look nice when finished.

Sometimes it's nice to have something that will be a little unique. Yeah, it requires actual thought and planning to get it right. There are a lot of electric vehicles out now where one can slap whatever they want and be done.

IMO, the Slash is a really simple vehicle, and certainly not worth the ~4 bills it goes for. The 2WD Slash is ~$200 and the 4x4 version is not a whole lot more vehicle for double the price. Yeah, it does have a BL system in it, but most of us would ditch it anyway. I would have much preferred the PE came with no motor/ESC (or a brushed setup just to keep the RTR factor) and cost ~$300.

i think you made a good decision, Brian. alot of the guys that i know who got the slash 4x4 are waiting on parts or keep breaking them. i must admit, i'm kinda disappointed at the lack of durability.

the ten looks like a mini-8ight. i saw one the other day at my lhs, and i was really tempted to pick one up. i hope you and mike come up with a sick conversion and a solution to the weird pitch. a revo spur would be perfect. i can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Losi Rocks ....i would take this over any other 1/10 4x4 ,Just which that Losi would bring out a race roller version only because I would want the hassle of selling of the stuff I won't be using..been there, done that.
Geared for 35mph on 3s this would be awsome.The more I read about it the more I want to get one,Awsome work Brian

I am sure you guys will do a good job getting a decent center drive setup in there. Losi are a bit weird sometimes, but all of the products I have from them were/are great, save for the mlst (crap). Have fun with it.

A few more pics for those interested:

The center diff. A neat thing is that the bearing fits over the outdrive. I can't tell you how many times I put a diff together only to forget to put the bearing on! Arrrgg! You can also see how the spur is shaped. You can also see how the diff mount (left one) has a spacer. The bearing dimensions are 18mm OD, 12mm ID, and 4mm thick:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_3.jpg


A shot showing the differences in pitch between Mod1.0 and 32p/Mod0.8:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_4.jpg


And a shot showing how much room there is on this thing, even with a large motor and battery. The battery is sitting against the dirt guard, but not on it. You can also see how the dirt guard mounting screw would interfere with the motor. So, the motor will have to be raised a bit:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_5.jpg

I do like the diff design...Brian I know how you feel about forgetting to put the bearing on the center diff..did it last week..wish all manufactures followed this lead.

Someone in a previous post asked to see the Ten compared to a buggy. Well, here's one showing the size difference. The one on the far left is a Ofna Hyper 8 buggy, the far right is an Xray XT8.

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/losi_ten_6.jpg

I believe I asked Brian, thanks for the pics. I am liking the length. Basically 1/8 length and as you stated, plenty of room for everything. Basic platform looks to be better than the Jammin and Ofna IMO, but, time will tell. Are the shocks 1/8 scale...hard to tell

Shocks are 12mm diameter and shorter than 8th scale. Just looks like they are scaled down properly. Sometime, I may replace them with regular 8th scale shocks to get a little more suspension height and to have a "big bore" look (at least relative to the truck :smile:).

Another upgrade I'd like Losi to release is an adjustable rear toe plate. The rear has too much toe-in for me since I bash mostly. The stock toe plate is just a piece of metal with a hole for the pin - no plastic insert so you can adjust them. Besides, with the toe-in as far as it is (in the rear), the shocks are not at a vertical front-to-rear angle. Reducing toe-in will bring the tires a little further back and make the shocks align better.

Sorry to be a pest..how does the steering assembly look as far a durability.

Steering assembly looks solid. Very little "play", and I don't see anything obviously weak. Typical 8th scale setup, just a tad smaller for 10th scale.

The only thing I can say (and it's minor) is that the linkage from the servo horn to the bellcrank is at a decent angle. The servo horn is higher than most servos I've seen, which would make the difference. The only reason why it sits so high is so that the linkage clears the servo case on either end of the throw; a longer arm would solve that. But like I said, that's a very minor thing and not worth even looking at TBH.

Unrelatedly; another thing I just noticed is that the front/rear diffs, being helical cut, are very quiet when spun. If a plastic spur is used on this thing, it could make for a VERY quiet running conversion.

Well, I created my own rear toe plate out of some 6061-T6 yesterday. The stock plate is steel, so I hope the aluminum version holds up. My version is not as pretty, but I definitely like the way it looks better; the a-arms are not as swept forward, less rear shock angle (front-to-rear), pushes the rear tires back about 4-5mm, and decreases the toe-in. The hinge pin holes were moved in a hair less than 2.5mm on each side.

Send me the steel one when you send the car, Brian - I will make a nice machined one with less rear toe(and adjustable inserts if it isn't too big a PITA) when I make the motor mount and spur gear solution. :)

Cool beans Mike!

I just want to be clear: The rear toe IS capable of being adjusted in stock form via the rear hubs according to the manual. But I more wanted to address the fact that, for my taste, the angle of the a-arms was too far forward and therefore the shock angle was off. Making a rear toe-plate addressed this. But if someone simply wanted to adjust the toe, that can be done currently via the wheel hubs.

I don't know, I like the idea of a beefier bearing more than I like the simplicity of being able to slide it over the outdrive.

you're not going to run a tekno adapter and losi's mod .? clutchbells?:lol:

Is that a very cleverly made balance tap protector I spy on your battery?

I like that idea very much and am stealing it.

True, but this is a relatively light 10th scale don't forget. The bearing is bigger than a CRT.5 IIRC, and they weight pretty darn close.

No, no tekno adaptor. Although, that would be a simple solution to the odd gear pitch issue. But, I'd rather have a gear setup that I can get at my LHS...

lol, all my packs use a similar thing. Keeps the dirt out of the connector.

To be honest in the 1/10 scale electric is by far king.. I question why losi brought it out as a nitro other than to start a 'new' class such as Traxxas did w/ the slash. But with the price tag I don't see it getting big any time soon, but who knows. I think at the very least they should have dropped an e-version out at the same time, I mean losi has pretty well lead the way w/ the 1/8 ebuggies to this point.

A side note Brian.. It looks like you could just bolt on a tekno motor mount with long shank pinion and be done w/o any mods other than a couple screw holes.. just a thought :)

Sounds like from your posts Brian that Losi did a pretty good job with this truck

I would like to see one up close and personal. Unfortunately my LHS is terrible and WAAAAY over priced...so They will not even have one I bet

It does look like a nice truck, but only time will tell if it is durable enough. I packaged up the truck and will be sending it to Mike today for him to work his magic. When it gets back "monsterfied", I'll take some more pics.

Doesn't look like a standard pinion or long shank pinion was an option, it doesn't appear to be a standard pitch, somewhere between mod.8 and mod1.

If someone were to convert this with minimal aftermarket parts, one could make their own motor mount and battery tray, and then use the Tekno clutch adaptor along with the stock clutchbell and spur. However, fabbing up a solution to use mechanical brakes, while leaving enough room for the motor and batteries, might be a challenge.

brianG

looks like a nice truck to convert, losi started useing mixed screws with the lst and it has just gotten worse with the 8ight B and T, but its an easy fix to just retap and replace them with metric screw

Yeah, I've been replacing the std screws with metric when I take something apart.

Yes in my quick scroll I thought Brian said he was swapping to a standard pitch spur. Wonder if you could get a standard 8ight center diff in there, maybe even the diff mounts. It would make the choices a lot cheaper and easier for some quick modding. Very interested to see what Mike comes up with though :)


PS been to crc lately? the SC indoor offroad track has been a blast.. I've been up a few times this winter. Just actually snagged a losi XXT-CR 1/10 buggy to race with on my next indoor offroad day as well.. can't wait :)

FINALLY i can post comment / replies :yipi:
I LOVE the losi Ten-t (Tent :lol: ) i have ordered one, and its gonna go brushless:D i have ordered all i need for it, i only need mike to make a conversion:) i have a tekno universal motor mount in "stock" but i wont use it when mike makes something better...
Good luck brian, i can see from your other conversions, that you know what to do :smile: i have converted a slayer before (Rc-monster motor mount of course :whip: ) But im not a pro like you brian:) but fair enougt since im 16 years old.

Sorry for bad english, im not that good, and danish :rofl:

Welcome to the forum Moller!

I sent my Ten-T to Mike (site owner) so he can develop a conversion kit for it. He should have it by now, but no telling how long it will take to complete since he is very busy. I imagine the kit will include a motor mount and battery tray with integrated ESC mount. He's also going to come up with a better center diff solution (probably using 32p/Mod0.8 gears) so that pinions are easier to come by. I'm sure when he is done, it will look like a factory-made electric Ten-t. I'm anxious for it!

From the looks of the truck, everything should fit nice and neat with little to no wasted space, without being cramped looking. The only thing it may need is a throttle extension cable due to where the receiver box is located.

Thanks Brian:)
i did talk to mike on e-mail and he told me some plans, and i sugested 12mm hex and not the STUPID 14mm hex. I hope he will make 12mm hex:D
the car has already cost me 1100$ and i still dont have the car LOL, so i hope mike will make something cheap and great XD :D