A mad brushless setup help
 

Hi,
I was referred to this forum by www.rctech.net they thought some one could help me here with deciding on a brushless setup.
I have a good carbon fibre touring car and I need a brushless mortor and speed control for it I prefer lrp or novak because I can easily get them. I’m not to worried about the legality for racing but I wanted a setup to send this thing around 100mph or as fast as I can get it and a 4 cell lipo would be nice yes I know I’m mad but its fun.
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

ya,theres not any sensored setup that i think can go that fast. I think you'll have to go for sensorless.

lehner 1930/5 and warrior 12020

I think it is going to be hard to reach on 4s lipo. Why not go for a 6s lipo? It would give you more potential. Put like a 1930 7t in it or 8t.

Type -project brushless bazooka- in the search engine of this forum and you might like the project.

No Novak or LRP motor will give 100mph. A 1930/5 or BASIC 4200XL would both be good options for 4s lipo. As coolhand said, 100mph is really pushing it on 4s lipo, especially for the lipo batts. 6s lipo might be a better option, and would put far less strain on the motor,controller and batts.

wow so much to think about I’m still studying these setups. so is it that sensored motors have smooth acceleration?. I was looking at the Lehner website and my eyes where drifting towards the bigger motors like Basic XL 5000 and bigger, will it work if I go huge to get maximum speed and control? I can use 2 3 cell packs or what ever to get it to run.
what about a phasor 15-3 (I can ge it cheap)its not meant for it but it can be modified.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetibrushless.htm

That motor is a definate no-no. It can only do 20,000rpm, and the controller that goes with it is only rated for 30amps. The BASIC XL range of motors would be a good choice, 4200XL for 4s lipo and 5000XL for 3s lipo. Either would get you towards the 80mph mark in a good car

Sensored motors have sensors on them that tell the controller where the rotor is. This makes it so that power can be applied very rapidly. With sensorless, the controller detects the rotor position by EMF from the motor. At a low throttle input, it is much harder for the controller to detect where the rotor is, and can lead to "cogging".

If you go with a XL motor with a high kv (4200 or 5000), make sure to get some batteries and a controller that can handle a lot of amps. Those motors are more than capable of burning out some batteries that aren't up to the task.

Surely there is a brushless set up that can send a carbon fiber touring car around 100mph, I can gear it to most ratios to achieve these speeds if possible. I still don’t know what to get…..ok these are the brands I can get a good hold of: lrp, novak, nosram, and some others that are alot harder to get.
What about the nosram storm http://www.nosram.com/products.asp?id=30
It says it’s up to 8.4v so that means I can’t run it of say 22v??

That motor, or any other novak/lrp/nosram motor etc. will not do 100mph. You'll have to get a serious motor do achieve those kind of speeds. That nosram motor is only rated at 255Watts, I reckon you'll need around 1000Watts at least. Mike's got loads of motors that could easily achieve those speeds on this site, and he'll deliver to pretty much anywhere in the world.
I would say look at the BASIC XL motors. What turn motor depends on the voltage you plan to run.

actually, if you can afford it i think the lehner 1930 series would be better suited.

How about the novak hv-maxx how fast approximately will that push my 1/10 touring car at 14.4v

That would be better. but what is wrong with the setups mike sells? a 9920 with a 9L is more powerfull than the HVmaxx and a few bucks more expensive.

im not sure what isnt clear here. to go 100mph, you must produce SERIOUS watts. the hv one produces about 375 i believe. my 10xl is capable of 4x that. a sensored system WILL NOT get it to the speeds you want. like i said, a lehner 1930 is probably your best bet.

i agree with squee in my opinion the 1930 is the way to go with the speeds you want to get.

You will definately want to go sensorless. Why do you have such easy access to the Novak and LRP stuff? If you get it at a way lowered price, you might want to just go w/ the 4.5. It definately will NOT get you to 100mph, but it would still be fun. To break into the 3 digit speeds, you need to go w/ a high quality sensorless company (lehner, hacker, aveox) and an esc that can handle a ton of amps. The 12020 could be a good one, Schulze has quite a few (though more expensive than the 12020,) and the Quark monster could probably hold its ground as well. Check out here for some links.


JB

Hey I have a Hacker c50 8s. Would that work? If so send me a pm and we can talk about it.

Would the gtb 4.5 system get me to 80mph/130km/h? I have about 1km of smooth road out of sight (I’ll have to be careful)

lehner 5 turn 1930? Why not put a 5 turn 1940 in it "is bigger the better"?

Yes I can get novak, lrp and hacker I think may be some other brands too, the reason is: I work at a hobby shop and I do get them cheaper there, I know I can get navak and lrp at the moment I have to search the supplier list to see if I can get any other brands.
Our shop has only started dealing with brushless in planes and helicopters…etc but not in cars yet as everyone likes nitro at this stage so we know hardly anything about (car) brushless setups that’s why I’m building a really decent fast car to learn all this stuff, have fun, promote, race and to show.
And there is no point promoting stuff our store can't get.

I’m getting mixed answers here I’m confused I was going to get the gtb / velociti 4.5 combo is that a good idea?
Which of the hacker motors is the fastest? how do they rate their motors in order from fast to slow?
What else do I need to know about motors?
Are lower winds better?
Is more torque better?
Do I need power or rpm to achieve high speeds?
Can I just get a powerful motor with low kv and gear it for speed?

thanks for all your help :)

The 1940 would have more torque than a 1930 so you gear higher for faster speed. A system is only as good as the batteries pushing it. There is a thread in the forum called david vs golliath. It may help explain some things on the speed your trying to get to. The low turn means more kv.

the 1930 fits just perfect in a tc3 stock chassi, if you want to use a 1940 you will have to do a little dremel work

plus you are looking for the tallest gearing on a 1930/5 you can cram in, a 1940 would send you slower since you would prolly not find a tall enough gear to make up for the slower speeds and more torque

1930/5 would be the best choice in my opinion.

The GTB/4.5R won't take you to 80mph. 6cells/2s Lipo can only push out so much power, which is why higher voltage is needed.

I think you would need at least 1000 watts output even in a light tourer. As speed increases power required increases exponentially. 1000 watts if your setup is 80% efficient would require you to pull 1250 watts from batteries. You could maybe get the efficiency up some but probably not much.

Here is an example of why 2s cannot do this.

2s=7.4v and 1250w / 7.4v = 169 amps. No battery can take that kind of draw and an ESC that could handle it would be huge.

On 4s you would still need 85 amps which is a little high. 6s would only need 56 amp which is very doable and would be easy on the equipment.

V * A = wattage pulled and W * efficiency % = wattage output from motor.

I believe this is all correct (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm still learning.

and that is why the man had 24 cells on a car to run 110 mph.

You are right Scoob!

You get it.. :)

lol I want the motor that ran this boat, if it can run a boat that fast it should be able to run a car close to 100mph do you think?
I know he had 32 cells but i'll have to work it out, all I want is the motor now.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/rec...eaking_120.htm

bugger it I’ll just get the novak 4.5-GTB setup:027:

Thats, as it says on the can, a 2250. This is a savage with a 2240 for size comparison: http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/sho...9&page=6&pp=15. He got 30mph on 5s and he is planning to run it on 10s. Plus, he got the 15t and lehner makes down to a 6t, I think. Definately post a vid of the 4.5, though. I hope it all works out for ya.


JB

He's a user on this board too, he posted his truck.

10S can go faster than 60mph, with the right cells, 70mph is easy to reach with 10S. Time for me to build the savage...

I am hoping my 2240 on 8s can hit 70, on 10s I would think 70+ easy, my truck will be light though... I will find out in less than a week... come on fedex.

Would the Lehner XL 5000 (5000rpm/volt) be a better choice than the 1930?
The 2240/10 is about 1400-3000 watts but it has low kv:032:

Personally I think the higher the wattage the more chance I have getting to 80mph. do I still have to look at the kv or just the wattage? what matters the most?

All I want to do is: say that my car can go 80mph+
100mph would be nice:027:

Power = energy/sec. energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity^2 So, the faster you go, more power is required exponentially since velocity is squared.

the 2240 would definately not work and you still need to look at the kv rating.
i would still say that it is best if you go with the 1930. it is the best choice for what you are trying to do.

[QUOTE=boss 302]the 2240 would definately not work QUOTE]

I don’t understand the 2240 is 1400/3000 watts and the 1930 is 1200 watts so would the kv rating really help the 1930 out do the 2240?:032:
I can modify, manufacture gears do what ever to make it work.

thanks MetalMan for the info it really helps:018:

the 2240 is a huge slow turning motor and you need something that has a higher rpm in your car. tomake a 2240 work you would need lots of cells and a humongous pinion.

Ok with the 1930 they list a 1930/6 I would think the 6 is the number of turns?
Is there a faster 1930 (as in less turns) out there?

it looks like the XL 5000 is better than the 1930 is that true?

A 6s lipo setup would achieve some pretty high speeds.You need to figure out how much battery power you can fit in your chassis,talking about motors is pointless untill you've decided how much power you're going to run/what battery set up.
If it's Lipos you plan to run i'd go and look at pack dimensions and weights and see what you can fit in.

In my opinion I will choose the motor first then I can adapt to the batteries because I think the motor is more important than the batteries are at this stage.
I heard that nimh batteries are better than lipo 1 reason is: because nimh can discharge faster is that true? the world fastest car and boat used nimh.

The power comes from the batteries.The more power you can fit in your chassis (in terms of batteries) the faster you can go.It's very easy to select a motor that can extract the maximum power available from your batteries.I was going to suggest a 1930 at around 45K to 50K rpm for whatever voltage you're running,maybe even a 1940 if the load (gearing and drag) will be high enough,but again that depends how much voltage you can fit under the hood.

There are Lipos capable of high discharge too,the bottom line is you can fit more power in the same space with Lipos.

You need to get your batts sorted first. Finding the correct motor for your batts will be easy, its just a matter of selecting what turn motor u want. Finding batteries for a particular motor, and then fitting them in ur chassis can be much harder. So choose batts first, and then we can help u with motor choice