New Arizona SB1070 Law
 

As usual, another thread got hijacked, this time about this topic. So, I will move all the subject matter to this thread.

As this is a political topic, play nice. :smile:

Below is where it started:



By the way, if our elected leaders don't stop wrecking this country soon, I won't be "the American" much longer. The last straw is if our so-called "leaders" allow illegal immigrant amnesty. I'm just tired of paying taxes that go to their handouts (schools, medical, etc).

So, I may be looking at relocating soon, and believe it or not, Australia was on the list of options. :smile:

Didn't Arizona just enacted an anti immigration law last week? I think many states are standing up to the feds now, might be a civil war soon. :tongue:

Come on down under Brian, you'll enjoy living here...RC parts are a little harder to come by but you don't need to sleep with a 44 under your pillow

Yes they did, and the feds are talking about bringing lawsuits against them for it, even though it simply mirrors the federal law - the feds simply don't enforce it. So, AZ decided enough is enough and passed a law that gives them the power to do what the feds won't. Opponents argue it creates racial profiling, and there is a possibility of that (I'm sure everyone has heard/experienced a situation where law enforcement abuses their priveledges), but if the new law is followed, then that can't happen. It's pretty bad when 400k of a 2M population is illegal draining gov't resources.

The media for the most part is slanting the whole issue to seem like people in general are against AZ (some states, like CA and MN, have boycotted AZ state officials). But when you look at actual polls, it shows the vast majority of US citizens are wholeheartedly for AZ. In fact, there are (last I counted), 12 states who plan on introducing legislation similar to AZ.

I've always said to eliminate the freebies and the illegals that are just here to freeload and they won't want to come here. Also, eliminate the "anchor baby" policy (where illegals sneak here, have a kid on US soil, thereby legalizing them). Simply give the parents a choice: take your baby back to your home country with you (forfeiting the child's US citizenship), or put the baby up for adoption. Either way, the parents leave.

What's even funnier is that just about every other country on the planet has far harsher laws regarding illegal immigration than we do, but we are deemed racists. Hypocites!

It's unfortunate that other countries' gov'ts are so poorly run, but those people need to fix that themselves instead of coming here and demanding we bend our ways to their whim. Time for the US to take of US citizens instead of catering to every illegal shmuck who whines for fear of offending someone. No more "press 1 for English" crap!

I could go on and on and on, but I don't want this thread to degrade to politics too much. :oops:

Brian, speaking you mind is the only way things get done and voices get heard. Sure they get hushed by the slanted media of today pushing certain agendas because they paid politicians, but we can change this by making our own voices heard!

I too am against all freebies, not just with illegals either. Governmental assistance programs are just as big of a waste of money as well! It's sick! constant abusers of the system.

I took a CPE class last Wednesday on of all things, healthcare reform. Yep, a class to illustrate all the additional fines and penalties going to be assessed, as well as the outrageous amount of NONDEDUCTIBLE expenses the health insurance providers will no longer get. O yea insurance is definitely going up!

But in this class they went over a section about the cost of the bill, approx. $940 billion, and how over time it will reduce the federal deficit*. Yep there was an asterisk by that one which basically stated they used an ill-advised method of accounting to come up with this and that the real number won't reduce the deficit. The slide also went on to say, and I quote:

Are you kidding? So "unauthorized immigrants are now included in the populous of the American people. And what ticks me off is that they don't call them as they should be, illegal!

Sorry to cause political uproar if so but people need to understand the situation and how American is going to hell in a hand basket.

Oh believe me, I agree with you. The AZ thing is just the newest and highest profile thing at the moment and so has the best chance for changes, if ever. There are a LOT of things wrong with the US, but we have to take one thing at a time.

I just really wish our leaders would use common sense more. It's hard to know who to elect when your choices are between crap and crappier. So, you are forced to vote for who will cause the least amount of damage...

Illegal immigration is a problem for all countries. Australia is no different

I can assure you, if you plan arriving unannounced (by boat typically) or overstaying your visa, you are quickly taken to detention centres & processed as slowly as possible. The detention centres are not a place you want to find yourself & certainly not your family

Australia is hard & uncaring country to illegal immigrants

Good! Makes me want to go there even more now.

I've humorously considered renouncing my US citizenship, going to Mexico, and then re-entering the US illegally so I can get all the handouts too. But unfortunately, I have too much integrity for that.

Since we are on the topic: http://www.alipac.us/article-5267-thread-1-0.html

I leave you to draw your own conclusions...

Sorry to hijack the thread PBO. :oops:

If this thread gets more activity about this topic, I will just create a new thread and move everything there.

BG, just wait until he pushes legislation for the 30 million illegals to receive free and full citizenship... This has been discussed amongst politicians already. they are waiting for appropriate time, or should I say election time.

A polite person might call that nepotism!

Just retitle it if you can Brian, wasn't the best joke in the world anyway :lol:

For every boat person that arrives here, 10 people hop off the plane and 'disappear'. Some get caught but once they've been here a set amount of time I beleive they get to stay. That's what I've been lead to beleive anyway, I've met numerous immigrants that arrived illegally but are no longer hiding.

That's because they have nothing to fear since the law (or lack thereof) is on their side.

I'm not an illegal so I don't know the ins & outs of disappearing however I do know that it's easy enough to pay into the system with PAYE etc. Unless you can create/steal a new identity, I don't think you can take back from the system...as in - leave the country, recieve Medicare benefits (they closed that loop), open a bank account, get finance etc or am I wrong about that??

I like how the media is playing the "racial profiling" card on this subject....yeah, like it doesn't happen already......

Moving to mexico
 

Dear President Obama:

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican Government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my housetop, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need income tax credits so that although I don't pay Mexican taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500.00 to help me buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

You're the man!!!

I'm not too sure of the technicalities like that but like BG said the law will accommadate them to a degree. A bit like rewarding them for avoiding laws that apply to everyone else. Even when they do go through a legitimate course and get knocked back they just apply for an NZ residency and pop over.

You have to admit we are soft here. Boat people bypass several countries that take assylum seekers just to get here. If they are granted never mind the the rental crisis, they get a place to stay and gov't benefits all layed out for them in their own language.

I used to think my dad was harsh when he said 'shoot them out of the water', but make sure it got on TV that would send the message to stay where they are.

'Laws are in place for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise', that's bullshit people are always going to wrought the system.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm not against immigrants (my wife is testimont to that) I just don't like people who have blatent disregard for the laws that apply to everyone. Including those that come on the plane.

Nice one Jerry.

The big picture.
 

The whole thing is just a big bunch of crap IMHO. Like stated previously the laws are and have been in effect for many years, and AZ just copied what was already in our federal statutes and made them local state laws in order to give them the power to act on those laws within the state Gov system. It has also been stated that if you read the laws as written there is previsions to prevent racial profiling. So the whole arguement is another piece of crap for the ACLU and NAACP to use as a tool to overthrow rules that the majority of the people in the USA want. As I have stated in previous threads I just don't see what the stand on this is. If anyone arrives here in the USA they have the same chances as everyone else to apply for citizenship and go through the legal process that was setup in the first place to become a part of our country. If you (black, white, yellow, red or whatever color your skin is or whatever God/religeon you believe in) cannot follow the rules setup in our country, then get the hell out. How can anyone really find fault in that process, and wage a legal arguement that has any merrit what so ever? Who in the hell is running this country anyway? My best friend always jokes about how I should not worry, because OBAMA is going to fix everything wrong with this country. What a joke.

Maybe I should rephrase what I said before- 'laws that apply to everyone' should be 'laws that should apply to everyone'. Something that gov't's struggle with.

Yeah, it's a tough situation with the boat people. On one hand you have people risking literally everything to come to a country they think will offer them & presumably their families the opportunities & security they want. On the other you have genuine refugees seeking asylum from persecution...if caught, they all get locked up for processing & hopefully they weed out the good from bad

I must admit, I'm not too keen on immigrants (legal or not) who isolate themselves into their own communities, don't bother learning the language, treat our country like their former country & hate everyone except their fellow countrymen...if we're all so bad - why the hell did you bother coming. Happy to buy them a plane ticket "home" to make way for someone who actually appreciates being here

I had a casual employee who gave me some of that one day...ranting and raving about how crap Australia was...couldn't wait to leave for freakin Lebanon of all places...he was instantly pushed out the door, followed closely by his bag full of hair products & car theiving tools...ta ta

Me to.
 

Yeah, it's a tough situation with the boat people. On one hand you have people risking literally everything to come to a country they think will offer them & presumably their families the opportunities & security they want. On the other you have genuine refugees seeking asylum from persecution...if caught, they all get locked up for processing & hopefully they weed out the good from bad

If you were to go on a vacation you would do your research first and make sure that where you are going is safe, and has a vacancy for you right? Plus when things are tough here in teh USA do Americans jump on a boat and head for Cuba? Hell now we figure out how to overcome the issue and move on. Why can't they do that in their own country and stop thinking that the USA is their only savior.

I must admit, I'm not too keen on immigrants (legal or not) who isolate themselves into their own communities, don't bother learning the language, treat our country like their former country & hate everyone except their fellow countrymen...if we're all so bad - why the hell did you bother coming. Happy to buy them a plane ticket "home" to make way for someone who actually appreciates being here


I agree totally. If you wish to reside here then learn the friken language or go back where you came from. A visit is one thing, but to stay here for years and never learning English should be a crime in itself. If you want to become a citizen of the USA, then you should be given one year to learn how to speak enough English for us to understand your speach or go home and don't come back until you can speak it fluently. As for how some of these communities spring up of some other nationality and don't want anyone else around. As long as they keep things on the peaceful side why not. It happens in every level of nature in all species.

I haven't verified if this quote is true or not, but I liked it:
I was also watching the show "America: How we got here" on PBS (or discovery??), and there was a similar statement made by one of our founding fathers. I wish I could remember what it was and who made it.

It's funny to me to see very similar sentiments from just about anyone I talk to (even people with Hispanic descent), yet the media would have you think otherwise. I guess they are counting on the people who do not have minds of their own, and accept what they are told at face value.

Legal immigrants are fine; they have gone through the due process and made the effort to assimilate to us, not the other way around. Those are the people that are welcome. The illegals are just here for the free ride and are getting it. And until that gravy train comes to a stop, no amount of border patrol or so-called legislation is going to help.

I have a new idea: If you are pro-illegal immigrant, then how about if we stuff your house with them, you have to feed them, you have to clothe them, you have to educate them, you have to provide medical care, you have to learn their language and provide them with all documents and media in their language, you have to accept and support their culture, you are responsible for any illegal actions they may perform, and you have to provide them an income. All of this is to be provided from your income with no gov't assistance whatsoever.

I'm sure pro-illegals would be up for that if they could just find that elusive tree the gov. apparently has. They live in a dream world:diablo:

More info: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rss=rss_nation

To be fair, everyone in Arizona (and the whole country imo) regardless of color should have to carry proof of citizenship. Mexicans or brown people are not the only illegal immigrants. There are also many illegal Europeans and Asians here. I think a national I.D. card would be a great idea. No I.D. card, no government services. I can only see someone being against the I.D. card if they have something to hide or are fearful of law enforcement abuses. But in that case you would also have to be against the Arizona law (law enforcement abuses).
I'm against illegals and the freebies they get but if you think that they account for the majority of our tax dollars, then you have been drinking the Kool-aid. IMO most of the waste come from legal americans scamming the system in some way. This includes businessmen and politicians.
Concerning illegals, I've heard some of them are able to acquire legal documents such as SS cards and driver's license by paying off employees that work in those offices which if true is a travesty itself.

What's amazing to me is how complicated the government and some people want to make it seem when in actuality it's a very simple concept.

They also want to paint those against illegal immigration as racist and anti immigration then bring up that this is a country of immigrants. Well basically every country is a country is a country of immigrants.

Immigration is great and many of my friends are immigrants. They did it the correct and legal way while also supporter the US and not staying beholden to their own country of origin.

The other argument is the one how the illegals do the jobs that US citizens won't do. This is one of the biggest lies there is. Many will do the jobs but cannot afford to work for the wages that illegals do. When the illegals keep all of their income plus the hand outs they get from the government compared to a citizen who pays 25% in taxes and must cover their own food and medical costs, it doesn't even compare.

You take a guy that makes 30k per year, then take out 6k for medical, 7.5k for taxes, 12k for rent/mortgage, another 3k for food, then the other miscellaneous expense he has nothing left.

Well take an illegal, they may make 20k in cash, 0k to taxes, 0k to health care, 0k to food (food stamps/welfare covers this) then add in subsidized housing, they still end up with at least 15k a year for whatever while the citizen who supposedly makes more ends up with zero.

Proponents of amnesty want to make things more complicated when in reality it's simple math and economics. Just like figuring debt and budgets. Many in the government would try to convince you that government debt is somehow healthy and/or different from personal debt. It's BS, debt is debt and the borrower is ALWAYS slave to the lender. Not too mention the government is creating the same scenario that caused Enron and many others to collapse and the government can and will collapse. If the numbers don't add up at the end of the day you have a problem.

Then get down to profiling. Profiling is a key law enforcement tool and it's absolutely naive to see it any other way. Take me for example:

If the cops get a report that a 30-40 year old Caucasian male with a bald head and goatee approximately 5'10" to 6'10" just robbed a convenience store and was seen going south or north street in a black SUV, I can find it reasonable that the police would pull me over in my black 4runner if I was anywhere in the area. Would I like it, no. Would I understand it, yes. Would I complain and whine because it happened, no. I would be happy the police were doing their jobs well.

Same goes with border protection. If your on the southern border you will be looking more at people of Latin and Middle Eastern descent. If you are on the northern border you will look more at people of European/Caucasian as well as other descent.

If you are in the airport you sure as heck should not be wasting time looking at little old ladies in wheel chairs.

Again, profiling is just one of many tools in the law enforcement arsenal used to fight crime.

According to the AZ law, even a valid drivers license will suffice. If the person cannot provide a license, or if it appears fake, the officer can then request other forms of ID.

I don't understand the resistance against ID'ing people; after all, I get ID'd whenever I buy cigarettes, alcohol, or get stopped by the police. I carry my ID with me at all times.

And to be clear, I am also not talking just about Mexicans. Like you said, this applies to all illegals. It's just that the AZ law is primarily targeted towards that ethnic group simply because they are the problems right now.

Oh, and in case your blood isn't already boiling, take a gander: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/

Your right, they are no the biggest portion of tax, but don't you reckon it's frustrating working and living in a place where illegals can just show up and are given the money you paid in tax. 'Nevermind building a new school we've got to build a detention centre.'

And don't you worry about the white collars, Skase will go down in Australian history as a complete f#!@* and *#@!#$ with ^%$#@! dirty !@#$%$........

I must have missed this. And no, I doubt it's the majority of tax dollars, but it's an amount that we can quantify and should NOT be paying.

I agree with all said above, Any Pro-illegal is aiding and abetting, in my opinion. The Government needs to get Americans working and the illegal group is not helping at all, It's making things worse

Here's what I would do. Don't bash me for thinking this way :lol:.

Why not give the Illegal Immigrants some sort of Social Security Number. I know many Brasilians who uses such a number for Taxes Purposes and they do pay their taxes. That way, the so called Illegal Immigrants can pay their taxes as well.

Now I'll add some more.

America as I know, was founded by Illegal Immigrants as well. So was Brasil. Non asked the Native people permission to do any of the things they did. Now, what drives an Immigrant to the USA? Lets see, I own a company and have 2 potential employee applying for a job. Employee A is an American who just graduated H.S. and is looking for a career and Employee B is an Immigrant who also just graduated H.S. and is also looking for a career. Employee A wants $45,000 a year, but Employee B want $25,000 a year for the same job. Who would I hire, I would hire Employee B for the simple fact that he will save me $20,000 a year plus he speaks a second language.

Man good thing I'm a one person show or I would get flamed for sure :lol:. If big Corp. (Specially in constructions) stop getting Illegal Immigrants to work for them, this problem would be a little less than what it is right now. I know a lot of Americans that have baby sitters and house cleaners that are Illegal Immigrants, but as the family bonds with the Illegal Immigrants they are offered a sponsorship to get their Green Card so they can now pay their taxes. More people paying taxes, more money for the Country and then what? How will the Country use that money? Will they bail out more banks, car manufacturers, mortgage companies, insurance companies and so forth? How many of you small business owner's have gone to one of the bail out banks to get a loan? How many of you got that loan?

Brian and anyone else here, Brasil is a pretty good place to retire to :lol:.

One thing that can be said about the Californian economy and Mexicans, is that they are the economy, without them, the state would not have been what it is today... or what it USED to be before almost 2 years ago. They are willing to do the physical work where the common Caucasian won't. (Or perhaps they can't for money reasons?)

One thing I noticed before I moved away from the city is that the amount of Philippine workers were coming in and stealing our jobs, or rather, the employers were firing the local and get a boat load of cheap workers, what a load of shit. When I first moved to the city I got a job working for a trailer manufacturing outfit for oil sands in Alberta, anyways they hired 3 locals, I was one, we worked our asses of for 2 weeks and then for no reason fired us, saying we are not going to 'work out' here. We were the only locals working there if you can believe it, the rest were Philippine and Mexican Visa workers. Then we found out they we hiring more foreigners in a mixture of 30 Philippine and Mexican workers for 1 year work Visa's. I was infuriated about that for the longest time. I know we worked our butts off and did quality work, not good enough.... not good enough for the bottom line is what it was! They paid them 30% less than what we got paid.

Anyways, I hope more states follow suit with Arizona on this, as well as the Healthcare Bill crap. I am Canadian, but I know it's only a matter of time that it affects us.

What happened to the government serving us, not the other way around. If you got rid of the Feds, any given country would be far better off, and would be able to flourish, with no artificial economy either.

Here's another thing I noticed a lot. Every time I go to the Super Market, I don't see the Latinos with Food Stamps. They pay for the things they buy with Cash. I do see more and more Americans using it though (Blacks and Whites). Sorry to bring races to this, but I'm not racial since I'm a mixture of Native Brasilian Indians, African and Portuguese and my daughter is half Brasilian/half Black. So the thing with Food Stamps and Medicare/Medicaid might not be accurate. From what I know one has to provide their income to get such benefits, so I don't know how a person who can't show their income can receive the above mentioned. It would be nice to see what would happen if all the Illegal Immigrants went back. I know many Brasilians are going back to Brasil (Illegal or not). Basically they are finding harder to live here in the USA and Brasil needs people who knows how to speak English.

One other thing I forgot to mention. I also think a primary language should be used always. Example: USA's primary language is English so every thing should be in English. Brasil's primary language is Portuguese so every thing should be in Portuguese. That should slow down or stop Illegal Immigrants from going to a country. The ID thing is nice. Get pulled over and one doesn't have the proper ID, they should require their country's embassy to pay for the person to go back to their country.

Agreed. Any dollars is too much. I was directing to the folks who say they should leave because too much taxes etc etc. I know it's not perfect here, but I feel it's the best country in the world by far. If we could only figure out how to use/control our money better. (If I could only figure that myself).
As for amnesty, I'm an immigrant myself and I just hate the fact that illegals are jumping the line so to speak. That's one of the reason I think amnesty is a bad idea. It rewards the rule breakers.

we have federal anti illegal immigration laws and AZ is just trying to enforce them because of Phoenix being an amnesty city

Good point & one I was going to raise also

The US economy does to an extent survive on minimum wage earners, without the low min wage the cost of goods & services would rise proportionate to the min wage. Middle America's standard of living would erode very quickly if it were raised significantly

It's a catch 22 for the US economy, a situation that appears to encourage illegals to enter because they are almost guaranteed a job that will allow them to fly under the radar