Maddness
 

Hi guys. Just been looking at some amazing brushless motors. Spotted a lehner 3080 (10Kw!!!). Just thought to myself, should i dare putting one in an E-Maxx?

If i did i'd be looking at about 60v lipos, speedwise id be seeing around what? 70? 80?

All just ideas...

Darren

i think a 3080 is totally out of the question in terms of size an power. 1 the sheer size of a 3080 is huge i doubt you could make a a mount that would work. 2 the shaft is 10mm you would have to make a pinion for it cause ive never seen a 10mm mod1 pinion. as for 60volts of lipo thats alot of batteries even with lipo this thing will weight a ton. i think if your after 70 mph a 2280 on prolly 29.6 volts (4 7.4 lipo packs) should get you there. sorry to rain on your idea :002:

Its quite possible that a couple of 3080 motors could be used in an electric city car. Two of these motors would give about 27hp, would be plenty to move a little inner city car and would keep all the green activists happy :).

Wow, those 3080's are BIG! 120mm x 60mmD?!? Must be something for robot wars, or a R/C life-sized buggy.

What kind of controller would you use?? Either way, it'll take an obscene amount of voltage and/or current!

But boy what would it look like. " You run brushless..... Now This is brushless".. LOL

YOU CAN DO IT! (Rob schnider voice)

3080 10t
16s4p lipo
Kontronicks power jazz

perfect!

The Waterboy was friggin hilarious. Awesome movie...

I was thinking of getting a 3060 and mounting it to a chassis with direct drive the the rear diff. I think it would have enough power to pull it and would be awesom fast. Never tried yet though. :027:

Seems like a bad idea in some ways and a good idea in other ways.

I'll keep thinking about it.

Stampy - Yes, gears would have to be custom made. Motor mount idea would clam round the motor case at the rear and support it there, so it doesnt move.

I don't know the amp draw, but i'll look around.

I was looking at using two 3080s to power an electric kart, but I couldn't find an ESC that could handle the voltage and amperage. I checked out the Power Jazz, but it can only handle 120 amps. If you used all 120 continuously and 63 volts, you could only produce 7560 watts. You need a 63 volt controller that can handle 160 amps continuous to produce 10kw. Schulze has two that can handle the amps (Future 32.170 and 40.160), but they fall short on voltage. I'm sure that there is an industrial company that has one, but I dont know of any controller capable of handling it. I'm sure there is one out there or else Lehner couldn't sell any of their 30 series motors. The car would have to be built around the motor. I dont think any current production car would be able to take 10kw even with upgrades.... maybe the Baja 5B. That would be incredible! Anyway... sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you find a controller please tell me. I'm always looking for stuff like that. If I find one, I'll tell you.


JB

It might be easier to simply get a small low current/voltage ESC and then add as many output FETs as needed to handle the current. You'd basically just be using the input decoder circuitry (from the transmitter) and the "programming" from it. The voltage capacity is limited by the choice of FETs. Yeah, it would be clunky and rather large - not like the nice neat little ESC we are used to...

What are you guys thinking?!! You've been stripping gears and spurs with the 22 series and yet, you're thinking of mounting an almost 2kilo motor in your pooor truck?!! I tell the truth, it wont be any joy, at all. Use a 2280 if you want extreme power. A 3060 or 3080 are beyond rediculous.

Hmmm.... could you elaborate a little. I hate messing w/ electronics (especially such crucial and intricate ones), but this intrigues me.


JB

Hmmm I'll look at controllers. There was a boat that had two 3080's in it, so there must be a controller out there to handle it.

Boats are a lot easier on controllers than cars are. Still I reckon a top end schulze or micro controller would be able to handle it in most cars.

By any means, I am not saying this will be easy! This is rough breakdown of what I'd attempt:

- Use the "brains" from the small ESC. If I was really good, I'd redesign all the circuitry for the receiver input, programming, and CPU control - but I'm not that good, so I'd cheat. :)

- Create a V/A amp (voltage and current amplifier) that will amplify the signal voltage to the battery voltage and amplify the current to 200A or more.

- Since the needed battery voltage (>50v) is quite a bit higher than the small ESC could handle, I'd initially bring the high battery voltage into the V/A amp and then also regulate it down to 8v to send to the battery input of the small ESC.

- Feed the three motor wire outputs of the small ESC to a voltage amplifier so the voltage is as high as the high voltage from the batteries.

- Then, use as many MOSFETs in parallel as needed to achive the current you want (>200A). Due to the way MOSFETs work, they can be easily paralleled. The devices would not be surface mounted, but typical TO-220 cases properly mounted to a heatsink. As you can imagine, the resulting

- Add some protection circuitry to the battery input and motor output of the small ESC so that if a problem occurs with the seperate V/A amp board, the ESC will still be usable.

- Use 6 gauge wire for the power, and 8 gauge for the final motor outputs.

I just wish I had a BL ESC to spare so I could experiment, something like the Mamba is pretty cheap at $80, but too expensive to just experiment with. Since it's not going to drive a low impedance load (V/A amp will take care of that), it won't even need a heatsink.

There are a few disadvantages to this:
- The V/A board will end up being rather large.
- The batteries that can supply this kind of current and voltage would be something like 4 or 5 car small batteries in series, which would be heavy!
- It would have to be a fairly large truck 1:6 or 1:4 scale to fit all the components and use driveline parts that won't shred with the torque!

my guess is the guy made it from scratch. How big was that boat!! :eek: i bet my fat arse could ride it! :005:

Well I suck at electronics, but this sounds interesting enough to get me to look into it some more. I was thinking of using an ESC like this (actually two) to power dual 3080s for making an electric go kart. My eyes have been opened. lol... now only if my wallet could back it up.


JB

What do you need to know about brushless motors to get the fastest one? will the wattage tell it all? or do you need to look at ALL the specs e.g kv, kt, wattage etc….

1/5TH SCALE diffs on a 1/8th to 1/7th size chassis basically all custom, make it big enough for 12s3p lipos..... 4 wheel tire smoke... cool but would you want to run a $6000+ rc that is destined to break itself all the time.

ummm..... yea, i do. Ok, well I dont have the money, but that would be really fun. Stick it in the 1/8 scale buggy class and OWN!!! lol... and why would it break all the time? It only would if you are a sucky driver or designed it poorly. Make it out of all steel. It could certainly push around that weight and probably wouldnt break either. Man that would be cool


JB

BrianG, so by the diagram you showed, the esc would be a brain and the amp would do all the HV work. Sounds like a slotcar controler i got, pretty good idea.

Darren why play with a motor that you can't get a esc for when a 1950 can be scary with 6-8 lipo's

Hmm... brushless pocked bike anyone?? :D

Man, that would be way, way, way too much fun :)

Too bad I don't have the time to do it.. hmmm that may work out for a hell of a final project for my engineering course.. :)

Don't the esc need a feed back from the motor to work. You would need to do something like a sensored for it to work out.

It might get a little pulse from the amp. if it goes in it should go back even a little

Yeah, I kinda forgot about that. :dft001: There may be a current-sampling coil or something on the motor wires that picks up the PWM AC signal. The switching frequency and current of the ESC outputs is high, so only a few turns around each lead would be needed. The only other way to pick up a current-sample I can think of is to use a VERY small value resistor and measure the voltage drop. But that would be less efficient, especially at the high currents these ESC can pass. Either way, I suppose re-locating the sampling coils to the outputs of the V/A amp, or calculating a new sampling resistor value to put at the outputs of the V/A amp would work. Then, feeding this data back to the "brain". Unfortunately, I don't have an ESC I can pull apart to see.

MOSFETs are voltage driven, so there would be VERY VERY little feedback from the V/A amp if you counted on them to provide feedback.

Oh yeah!
 

Well guys, my supermaxx is due to be finished before xmas. I've thought about doing the 3080 maxx for a while now, and decided that if I can find a 10S lipo 3080 compatible ESC, then the project will be started after I have finished my Supermaxx.

The truck will run all stock except for pinion/spurs (obviously) and I will 'try' to run a G2 chassis. The motor mount is my only real problem. Mike would you be up for making one? If so, i'll get a 'Sponsored by RC-Monster' shell for it, just for the thanks. The truck will ride as low as possible, using 4 UE SuperShocks. Not sure about tyres, maybe 40 series road rage's. Shell will be a proline crowd pleaser. I may run a wing if I see any hint of the truck lifting.

As far as lipo goes, done anyone know what I should use?

Now; I know that promod used dual 2240's and 8S lipo to reach 80mph. I'm 'hoping' that this truck will break into 3 figure speeds. Would this be reachable, I think so.

I know im going to get 'it wont turn' type comments, and i dont want it to. It's purely a straight line truck and will probably be sold not long after i've reached the hundred. Once the truck has been done, I'm gonna contact one of the rc mags and see if they can do an article on it. I will get video footage of the truck without a doubt.

This is gonna be like a jet fighter engine in a bicycle :)

i would really love to see this happen. you're just going to open the diff and it will look like you just cracked an egg open. lol it will be liquified

Last I heard Promod was only running a single motor. I don't know why you would need a dual 2240 setup. The limit is more in the cells than motor. I wish you luck though on project.

Thanks mate!

I believe you once had in your sig 'I have a dream of my maxx going 100mph'?

If that was you, ill send you the 100mph pic before anyone else :) .

What is the company that makes bearings, the orange shelided ones? boca? Might have to buy a bunch from them.

That was me. I had a 2250 and it was awesome. If you was to go with a 2280 and like 12s lipo. I think you would run 100. I was going to try for 80 mph. I found the truck didn't like the power as much as i did. As far as speed controller. Schulze has the 40.160. That take about 12s I would guess.

So the schulze should be good for what I wanna do? If it goes on fire, serum gets the pic first :005:

even the best of e-maxx differencials probably wouldn't stand a chance against a 3080. thats just rediculis! the speed on a smart car would even hit amazing speeds it it was twin powerd and water cooled. then i wouldn't amagine the power of a 3080 in a maxx!!!!!

darren, your crazy, a 2280 is out the story and your doubleing the power. you motor mount should be atleast 5-7MM thick!
lol

cant you remove the brushless shaft and atach it onto a lathe and reduce the shaft size from 10mm to a 5mm? i dont think that it would weaken it if you only reduse the shaft a bit.

That may be a good idea, since I wont be using the motors torque for crazy acceleration.

If mike can make the motormount, i'll happily buy from him. I'd get it about 8mm thick.

If Mike can't get the motor mount made to your specification, I've been using various angle aluminum for motor mounts with good results. In my Jato (Mamba Max 4600) I use 3mm thick, in my Revo (Wanderer 10XL) I use 5mm thick. For that motor, 8 or 9mm is definitely needed. What about this (6.35mm) or this (9.5mm)? Of course, you'd have to cut it to size and trim the excess for weight.

instead of my 2280, I was goin' to get the 3080, but then .. I thought.. too much.. and it probably would be too much.. a 4 lb motor.. hahaah.. I did try sticking my 2280 directly to my rear diff on my E-maxx.. the motor handled it no problem.. @ Fine designs there's a cat with twin 3080... that's nuts.. I guess he only esc for it are the 40.160wk.. (I had two of these at one time) but the 3080 is definately an overkill.. but I really would like to see someone do this... C'mon.. YOU CAN DOOOOeeeeT!!!!

I was slightly inspired when I seen your truck. I though, I need some overkill!:018:

What was top speed like with the direct drive?

Brain, that stuff looks like it would be good, i'd definetly have to make a rear motor support, though that metal helps alot.

So, to find some 10mm pinions.

I think with this motor, the spur gear will be smaller than the pinion.

I think if you connect the 3080 to the rear diff. It would pull it even better than aqwuts did. If I want a 3080 I would try it. You need almost or some kind of direct drive system. I wouldn't worry with a trans for sure. maybe get you a center diff and mount the motor to it with a fat pinion gear.
35 to 46 tooth or so. Would have to push alot of rpm to get 100 mph.

Like the dude said earlier.... your gears won't last.. if you have cvds.. it will snap them... your diffs won't last either.. I've already fried my rear Spyder 8 dffs.... You'd need some custom cvds from rcalloys... 10mm shafts.. It shouldn't be to hard to make a rear support....... it's pretty easy.. I have to pretty up my e-maxx so it will bling like candymans and Serums... do it man... I'd love to see that 3080 run.. but man. it's gonna be crazy expensive for the upkeep....