New Mamba software (beta) posted today
 

Added some new features, including true torque control (should be very interesting to see the applications for this!)

Getting it now. I can't wait to try this out at the drag strip. Thanks PDC!! :yipi:

One question Patrick - can we hold full throttle on a 7700Kv or 9000Kv motor on 3S lipo for 3 seconds? That's what we use on our set-ups but I'm a little concerned about grenading a motor doing this. What do you say? Also, how is this new torque setting different to punch control? And can it be used on sensorless motors? Thanks.

Edit: Or do you recommending on running 2S for the motor test and then go to 3S later? Will that be as effective as running the raceday voltage for the test?

Installing now :)

I've been waiting for this for too long.

Finally! :party::yipi::party:

I will install this new update right away.

Explaineth please?

NEW---BETA ---SOFTWARE---:lol:

I think he means explain the new features.

your my hero, thats going to be nice in my touring car, my diffs will be thanking you too:lol:

Ok, updated the firmware on both my MMM and MMP. I see a problem. If I barely give throttle the car creeps forward, then jerks forward to almost full speed for a second them calms back down, if I hold the throttle just barely it continues to do this lurching forward then slow then lurching again.

This is in two cars two separate esc's, MMM and MMP. Going back to previous firmware.

Did you reset full throttle, brake, neutral?

Recalibrate? Yes, I recalibrate after every time the esc is plugged into Castle Link.

This "torque control" could be great. I'm seeing it as an aid for throttle control in the infield without compromising (possibly even increasing) speed in the straight.

Could this be a step toward traction control? Is there a way for the esc to detect rapid changes in motor rpm so it adjust the motor torque accordingly? Then ABS breaks next! :)

hello guys, here are my first impressions :

- the Kv test of the motor didnt work for me, it says 3840Kv and I run a 1520/1Y "1600Kv" and i did the test twice, maybe we have to run it with specific voltage ???:oops:

- the torque limiter seems to total cancel the effect of the punch control, and like one of you said before, generate some strange crawling/cogging à start :oops:

- the power limiter works perfectly ! And it's a good thing for people who want different power/speed for their different applications without changing pinion or voltage :yipi::yipi:

My setup : 70% punch control, 4 timing, no drag brake...

==> I noticed that the fan is always on since the new firmware, and I wonder if it has something to do with the power limiter. Indeed, correct me if I am wrong, limiting the power will heat a little more the FET of the ESC no ?

NuZ

NuZ --

The Kv test reports Kv as electrical Kv. So it will show "true" Kv on a two pole motor. Your 1600Kv motor is a 4pole, so it will show exactly double the "real" Kv. So, with timing (as programmed) the Kv of your motor is about 1900.

The torque control software should be set to a pretty high value in a setup where there is little wheel spin (low torque control). If you have a lot of wheel spin, set it lower (high torque control.)

For torque control, low values mean low torque, high values mean high torque. For a high voltage system, you will want to run pretty high values.

Torque control works completely differently than punch control. Punch control limits throttle change rate -- so if you go from "off" to "full" throttle, punch control will slowly raise the throttle to full over, say, half a second.

Torque control works by limiting the amount of torque the motor is allowed to make. It's a true closed-loop torque control.

@Nuz 69: You're running a 4-pole motor, so you will need to divide the result by 2.

If I understand the setting correctly, because it's limiting the torque of the motor, it will supersede the effects of punch control; which is more of a voltage/RPM limiter. (correct me if I'm wrong Pat)

I'll let the engineers know about the issues with the torque control start-up.

The fan should not be running the entire time, torque control should actually reduce motor and ESC temps. Not sure why, but that is what I was told be Richard (our software engineer). Hopefully Pat can shed some light on the how and why.

I'll check with Richard and find out why the fan is running continuously. Was it a Mamba Monster or Mamba Max Pro??

@Fg101C: Did the problem persist when you turned off torque control? Or did you have the issue with it turned off as well?

Thomas Porfert
Castle Tech Support

Try this--

Turn off punch control. Set torque control to "7".

Try driving and see what it's like. If you get lots of wheel spin, try setting torque control to half the value (3.5)

Remember, higher values means MORE torque is allowed. Lower values means less torque allowed.

Torque control is designed differently than punch control. It doesn't ever limit the throttle change, but limits the amount of torque that the motor is allowed to make.

Play with it a bit. We are still refining the software. :)

LOL @ Thomas.... :lol:

We always do that.

Thx for your feedbacks P. and T.

==> My ESC is a Mamba Monster.

==> The torque control is in fact a current limiter, as the torque depend of the current ?

==> the cogging/crawling problem occured only with the torque control activated, so it's not due to the new firmware.

==> When I said that activate the torque control cancels the effect of the punch control, it's really the case IMO. For example, like you said Patrick, when you hit full throttle quickly without punch control, the motor will reach instantly its max RPM. With punch control you will see a delay until the motor reach the max RPM. When I activated the torque control (I set the value to 3.0), I did some throttle test, and the motor went instantly to max RPM, when I deactivated the torque control it was'nt the case anymore. That's why i said that.

Give me the time to run some other tests without punch control and I will post more feedbacks.

Cool, thanx!

The torque control will give instant response to throttle changes (unlike punch control...)

So if you hold the model, you will see the wheel RPM change almost instantly. There is very little torque required to change the wheel RPM.

But on a track, the torque control will make the car/truck act as though it has a lower torque motor -- wheelspin will be more controlled.

Traction will be greatly increased, with no impact to throttle response.

We've got a little more work to do to finish the full traction control implementation, but this is a good step forward towards full traction control.

Thanx!

Patrick

Escuse my french language, but "wheelspin" design the fact that the wheels spin with no grip ? Like while a drift ?

yes -- that's what I mean by wheelspin. For example, when pulling full throttle from stop, the wheels will spin much faster and harder without torque control. Acceleration will be more controlled and faster (with less wheel spin) with torque control adjusted correctly.

You guys just opened up a big can of kick-a$$ again.

Thanks Castle!

This sounds very interesting and I will have to play with it some. Is it safe to assume you can only realistically reduce torque with this feature or can it be increased too?

Ok guys, my second reviews of this new firware :

====> PROS :

- the torque control acts well in the whole throttle range, except at full throttle : blipping full throttle result in violent acceleration a max motor RPM, like you have with 0% punch control (was a first time for me, pretty impressive with the 1520/1Y :wink:)
- the feeling is better grip under acceleration on dusty sliding surfaces
- throttle smoother at low speed.

====> CONS :

- the punch control seems to be disabled when the torque control is enabled
- strange behavior at very low speed, or when you try to go reverse, the ESC has some difficulties sometimes to catch the rotor and turn it.


My setup : MBX5T NEU-CC 1520/1Y 6S 4000mAh 40C turnigy, geared 15/46 (43mph), timing 4, punch control 70%, torque control 5.0, max power (100%)

Patrick/Thomas, can we do the motor test on 2S and run on 3S later with the same "test results"? Thanks.

Yes, you sure can. Kv isn't dependent on battery voltage.

And the torque limit should also remain constant regardless of battery voltage.

can the torgue control be changed/programed with the castle field link ?

Of course!!

Torque control is programmed by number -- higher numbers means higher torque, lower numbers mean lower torque.

He may be referring to the field programming card...

AH! I misunderstood.

No, unfortunately -- the field link can't set torque control.

ABS already have it, as for TC control, they had it on a few reaaaaaaly old brushed esc's and it worked sooo well that ROAR banned it...

Thank you Patrick. That's just what I thought and glad you confirmed it :yipi:

Ok, another serie of test :

- the fan is always ON and acts strangely, it turns off when throttle is applied and turn ON again at neutral.

- there is a difference with the previous firmware, at very low speed or at start the cogging is more important, and we can hear a longer sound while the ESC probes the rotor to start.

- the power limiter works good.


To conclude on my tests,


==> PROS : torque control, smoother at low speed, power limiter very usefull for my children :lol:

==> CONS : incompatibility between punch control and torque control, a lot of additionnal cogging at start compare to previous firmware :oops: Fan always ON

Perfect timing, just got my EagleTree today. First thing I'll do is test out the torque control and power limiting features.

Question: How does the max throttle limiting feature compare to say turning the throttle EPA up or down on your radio?

Applying less than 100% EPA would simply like not applying the full range to the throttle trigger; so, 75% EPA would be like only going to 75% of the max travel of the trigger.

This release seems like it has potential. Although, since torque is a function of current, I don't know how the ESC can know how much current is being pulled unless it has a current sensor like the ICE line does. Speaking of this, wouldn't torque control be similar to current limiting in a way?

Yeah I get how EPA works, but how does the max throttle limiter work? I just assumed it did the same thing as lowering EPA. So if you set the throttle limiter to 75%, is that accomplishing the same thing as turning the EPA down to 75% (providing you calibrated the ESC with EPA at 100%)? I guess with the throttle limiter you would still have the full range and resolution of your throttle trigger?

IMO the torque limiter is in fact a current limiter. Concerning the power limiter, if the power is too limitated i suspect the ESC to heat a little more than usual. That could explain why with this firmware the fan is always ON...

The torque limiter is not exactly a current limiter, but it works similarly (the difference being that the torque limiter isn't reactive -- in other words, it doesn't react to changes in current, it actively controls torque, which in effect controls current...) Make sense?

So Patrick, how exactly does the torque limiter work then? If the answer is getting into the "trade secret" realm, I understand, but you've provided technical explanations for all the other features, and I just like to know how things work.

I'm also in the dark? Isnt this like using a battery with a lower discharge "C" rating ?