MaxAmps Race Edition Lipos
 

I can't believe I'm the first to post about these. :mdr:

Anyways, MA has new packs out which lay claim to a "True 150C" discharge rating. Sounds great. They are using 6500mAH cells... Raise your hand if you think they can actually support a 975A discharge. :oh: ...

Nobody? :lol:

So suddenly they're back to C ratings again. Or will there be a 14430 surge-watt rating on the 4S pack? Even if the cells CAN put out the juice, they aren't going to do it through 12AWG wires. :no:

In all seriousness, when I see that 4S pack start a V8 engine, I'll believe the 150C rating.

Any thoughts? Or have I pretty-much summed up what you were thinking...

I think you pretty much summed it up! lol. However someone should really try to start a car with one! My guess is that it would puff and/or melt off battery leads.

Maybe they will put up a video of it jumpstarting the Deathstar...

I have 2 alkaline D cells that will kick it's ass.

wow.... well it must be right cause they used the word TRUE in the rating without any other info to back it up.... like a graph. i would also like to see a 12awg wire carry 900+ amps even for a fraction of a second. most 600amp industrial panels use 750mcm or larger in multiple runs, and not at 7.4volts either. saddest part is people actually are buying this crap, or they wouldnt advertise it and still be in business. someone need to call these guys out along with the other manufactures and stop the false advertising.

Good grief! how far can the claims go?

Here it is
 

Here is the link for their new race ready battery. They are claiming that it is simply the best Lipo battery in the world.

http://www.maxamps.com/Lipo-6500HC-148-Pack.htm

The claims have no limit, just like the C ratings.

It all has to do with having a fancy sticker printer.

They shore do print some fancy labels.

Assembled fresh in the USA really means "We put the sticker on it!"

$100 says my hyperion g3 vx series 6500 2s will stomp that pack. (while being a premium pack yet costing about $50 less)

Hey Guys,

Thank you for the interest in our new packs. I will have some new videos and graphs to you shortly. I believe you will be impressed. This truly is a solid product and I believe you will be extremely happy with the performance. Rootar, If you will be at ihobby I will take you up on that bet and we can test the packs together.

Brandon

Maxamps has chosen to play the marketing game with the argument about C ratings for so long, it's just old.

Now, since sales are obviously sagging in this economy, (along with the fact that people are catching on.........karma you know?), Maxamps has tried several attention tricks.

First design on your "stackable" assemble-a-pack idea was a lawsuit in the making. I'm glad to see you finally got your head on, and came up with a better idea to eliminate dead shorting and the potential firebomb.

Now, It's obvious you've went back to the "True C rating" instead of the "Burst Rating", but came up with your own numbers once again.

True product competition isn't just about sticking a number on a pack. The proof is in the pudding.

But come on! 150C? That's just a lie.

If you can provide me proof, that your pack can hold even 3.0 volts per cell for 30 seconds at a 975 amp discharge, I'll buy!

IF Maxamps DID come up with such energy density and discharge capability, you would have such huge Government contracts, you would probably forget about the RC market altogether.

That's not how things are gonna go there, in the garage though, is it?

Im confused......in your first post you say you are the editor for RCCA, and now it sounds like you work for MA?

True that.
 

True that. If it was possible to get 150c discharge from Lipos we would have had our roads full of 1:1 cars with Lipos in them already. This just sounds silly now. How stupid do you guys think we are? Almost a 1,000 amps out of an R/C Lipo, REALLY? Are you kidding... Come on show some graphs or a video comparison that will make all of us believers. We really do want to, but up to now you guys have lied and given false advertsing to the point that no one trusts you guys any longer. So wheres the BEEF!

While skeptical, I'll hold off commenting until I see the full ratings along with 3rd party test verification. I personally would like to see a graph of voltage, current, and temperature vs time at various continuous and burst currents. High C rating is only beneficial if it can be drawn for more than 1ms without causing a fire.

I should go update my post. Yes, I was an editor for RC Car Action magazine for almost two years. I am now the Marketing Director for http://www.maxamps.com

We shall see how these fair out. Maybe meet the prices of Hyperions and people would be more incline to give them a chance...


My biggest issue with the whole C rating thing is the way they are advertised to the uneducated hobbyist who is going to the LHS for some good packs. Even my LHS owner doesn't realize the difference in C rating. I was in there the other day when he sold a guy a Maxamps' lipo. He said it was a 80C lipo. I laughed and said, no, its a 40C pack. They are using a different system to rate them to take advantage in the marketing scheme. But the owner didn't want to here it, he was sold that it was an 80C lipo...

So I met up with the guy on a Saturday night drag race they hold and let him use my Hyperion G3's. He was a tad shocked...

im curios to see these graphs and videos that are supposedly coming. just as curious to see how they are loading these packs to test the c rating. personally i would like to see a company start up that tests and rates lipos from all manufactures, if only to keep them honest. if these are 150c batteries im converting my old civic to brushless.

side note: not suprised hes a rep for maxamps, ever see them use any other packs in testing in their mag? could have something to do with MA being readers choice for the last three years? smartest thing maxamps ever did in my opinion.

They made a typo. You have to ignore the 0.

i wish i could be at ihobby way to far away though. Since your the new marketing director of MA does that mean Jason is gone??? :yipi: Don't follow in his footsteps for sure.

Honestly you are in the position to turn things around for the bad taste MA has left for most people. All you have to do is simply post discharge graphs with the related cell and leave it at that. No hype, no crap, no talk, just results, then we can talk about the results :yes: if you want to give guys a reason to not bash your product then all that is needed is proof and a properly represented product. Agian, no hype, no crap, no talk, results first then talk later.

When your willing to post the graphs people will be a little more open minded also.

Sounds like neil got hold of the lipogate tapes! Ha ha

Jason is still with us. I will be posting some graphs and videos shortly and I think you will be impressed with both the results and the method of testing. I didn't want to delay the press release as we wanted this product out in time for iHobby, but rest assured you will get your graphs, tests and videos to back it all up.

If you check out the new prices on the website you will notice we are quite competitive with other high-end brands and in most cases even lower. Also our 3-year warranty really backs up our product and you know you are getting a solid product for the price.

Give me a 2s pack and I'll see what it really can do. I would start off with cycling the pack at 40A at around 10x with the WhatAnut Charger. NO cooldown period. Then a 30 second burnout while watching the voltage under load.

FYI Brandon: I edited your post to remove the reference to a deleted post. Questions/concerns are ok, bashing is not unless backed up by facts.

Neil/ Everyone - Thats about my limit ok...

Brandon's offered to post everything up - Until then healthy skepticism is fine but flaming or being rude is not.

Edit: Guess it was Brian's limit to!

with all that said, why join the forum right after a post was started on your product, only to say the graphs are coming? obviously we are not customers so what impact would that have on your company? dont you think your customers are the ones who deserve the facts? what is said here is not going to affect your sales i am sure. i have owned your packs in the past with the 3 year warranty, and had to PAY for the cells that went bad after 10 cycles even though it was under warranty so pfffttt to that jibberish. not to say your new packs arent better, who really knows? even if they were 150c i wouldnt buy any simply based on my past experience with your product and reps.
i will say that i am glad to see MA TRYING to do what is right and give proof, more than all the other manufactures can say. just seems strange and defensive to emerge when your product has been questioned, after "lurking" for so long......

sorry if this seems offensive to anyone, not meant to be, but like i said i am glad to see that they are making an effort to back their product, who knows maybee they can.

Slim... No grassy knoll conspiracy as I see it he used to work for Car Action - He's recently moved to Maxamps so now its his job to be here...

I think he knows he stepped into the lions den - How about people give him the benefit of the doubt for maybe a week?

Too much to ask?

not at all. like i said its a step in the right direction for MA and the fact that they are producing info is even better. hopefully other companies will follow suit. sorry for seeming so skeptical it in my nature....

Whichever way you consider the 150C claim it's a quantum leap from known high performing cells...and let's be honest who wouldn't want cells that capable

I'd love to see rootar make ihobby with the Hyperion cells. I have the same 6500 & if they can trump those babies I'm sold

I just think its too soon for 150c lipos to be out, if they came out like 2 or 3 years from now it might be easier to believe. I mean what was the highest true c rating before these....like 60c or something? Seems like a pretty big jump!

Brandon,
I have to admire that you would come here and try to push the MA packs, you do like a challenge. Personally I have a hard time believing that MA has a battery at more than triple the out put as Neu Energy's strongest battery which is 46/92 (constant/pulse). Also to be honest based on how MA has done things in the past, I would like to see an independent 3rd party do the test and compare to other high end brands. I look forward to seeing the tests.

The 150C rating is ludicrous considering current technology.

Let's just run some numbers. Simple Math.

We have a 150C 6500 mah Lithium Polymer cell.

At a 975 amp discharge rate, each cell is capable of 4095 watts of power.

If we discharge our fully charged cell at the 150C discharge rate, it will be fully drained in 24 seconds. (If anyone is interested in the formula for calculating any of this, I'll post them up.)

I am a Refrigeration/Maintenance Engineer for a Distribution Center here in Missouri.

It's very common for me to deal with Techs and Sales Reps from industrial battery companies such as IBP and Deka.

Batteries have always fascinated me, so I ask alot of questions and stick my head in the books.

Here is a comparison for you. The battery in question is a 36 volt 1000ah lead acid Industrial Truck battery weighing in at 2850 pounds.

Each main power lead is about as big around as a fat cigar. Cross sectional area comparable to a Nickle.

It takes a well co-ordinated forklift driver about 6 hours to drain one of these batteries. Obviously alot of energy.

The question that I posed to IBP and Deka Techs:

What is the maximum discharge rate limit before damage occurs?

Answer: Right around 750 amps. It is at this point, it blows the jumper bars off the cells.

Jumper Bars are the intercell connections. Each unit is made up of 18 - 2 volt cells connected in series. Total of 36 volts.

They use pairs of jumper bars to jump from one cells positive posts to the next neighboring set of negative posts.

EACH jumper bar is around 2" wide and 1/2" thick and about 6" long. They are made of lead.

I've witnessed several accidents where the main power leads were crush/pinched to the point where a dead short condition occured.

Never have I seen the jumper bars blow off, but a battery this size can discharge enough amps to snap 1/0 leads in a shower of sparks. I have seen this happen. It's quite scarey.

Now, back to the 150C rating. We are going to discharge a 6500mah Lipo Pack at 975 amps continuous?

How are we going to test that since the entire discharge process will only last 24 seconds?

These numbers are off the scale and highly impossible IMO.

Thirth party or nothing .. is well known that we cant trust MA ...

Just to give an example. A while back i bought 2 factory remanucatured packs from MA ebay user. I got a puffed pack and an unbalanced one...


975 amps over a 12awg... lol.

An awg 12 wire will explote into sparks with such a discharge...

That's kinda like saying:

"I'm gonna pull your truck outta the ditch with this piece of fishing line."

:lol:

I just figured I would add this as the OP...

I did not start this thread with the intent of taking shots at MA's new product. That being said, I still think the rating of 150C is quite ridiculous for ANY battery pack that small, not just this one from MA.

If we are talking about a <5ms spike rating then yes, the cells probably can do that. Any longer and the tabs would most likely melt off.

A [universal] method of rating the continuous AND peak discharge of a battery is the way to go. Rating a cell/pack for just one or the other does not provide enough information.

I have to ask this question. How long has it been since anyone here has bought a brand new Maxamp lipo? Has anyone bought a Maxamp lipo very recently? I'm just thinking of Hyundai. They've come a long way since the Pony and Excel. Maybe Maxamp has changed. I doubt the 150C claims are true for now. Like it was said, if a lipo capable of that kind of discharge was available, the military and automotive industry would get hold of it way before the RC industry. Let's just wait quietly and see if everyone here has to eat their hat or if we're in for a good laugh.

I've got to say, numbers and charts are meaningless. For me, the only things that matter are performance, price and safety. I have used new MaxAmps batteries recently and been very pleased with the performance. I'm not crazy about the numbers they use to describe their packs performance...clearly sustained 150C is not even possible given the wires and connectors in use. I am however pleased with the performance I'm getting out of my new MA 5250 packs. They feel great from the first lap to the last and I know that if something does go wrong, I can always make use of the 3 year warranty.

I've run many different brands of battery in my buggy and truggy, honestly I don't feel much difference at all across all the brands when the packs were fully functional. I think the current state of LiPo technology is such that they almost all deliver enough performance for all our hobby needs. MaxAmps offers a broad spectrum of products, they make it easy for consumers to get the right fit for their vehicle and they backup their claims with a great warranty. Why all the negativity?

Yes, would be nice to see every reputable battery manufacturer step up and document the individual cells in the pack, supply graphs for the pack as a whole, etc. and work together to come up with a standard testing package.

Go for it. Better to be more transparent than the next guy. Formulas, unless wrong, are hard to argue with. Numbers and claims can always be manipulated.

I have 2 3s 5200 MA packs that are new(4mos old, have dated reciept), I aquired them via trade.
My Turnigy 30C 5000mah Packs perform better and charge/balance better
The MA packs are very warm and slightly puffy after run, the Turnigys in same RC are ambiant temp and normal after run.
NO B.S. !

My expectations are not high at all but I will not pass judgement till I see facts/graphs on these new 150C packs

Cost vs performance ratio
Attitude of Jason and Austin to queries or legitamate concerns

The CastleCreations reps are a shining beacon of how you should deal with your customer's concerns, complaints & queries; calling people haters and bullies and deleting their posts/ threads to hush them up never exactly gives a good impression of a business, albeit one run from a guy's garage.

Funny thing- I referenced a discharge graph ( re: 35c performing as ~20-27c ); that graph has been removed when I took a look-see over at the nitrokillers forum, funny that...

Quick check... yup, no flaming there, just facts and geniune points :smile: