1406 4 pole 4600kv
 

First off no need to kiss @ss, everone here knows CC makes awesome products and has first class people working to help customers, but i would like to thank all of them for the excellent service past and present, especially Patrick.

Ok now for the good stuff:yipi: Been sittin on this motor for a week or so dyin' to run it. Finally got the chance last night at Hotrod in sagus. First i tried it in a Kyosho SCR, but it was very evident that the motor was waaayyy to fast and was not legal for the class(think its a 17.5 class for expert there). Soooo... into the 4x4 slash it went for a crack at the unlimited class!

Normaly i run a 6.5 550 on 3s 3200 40c in this class with the mmpro set up as follows:

1.29 firmware
auto lipo @ 3.0v
100% brakes
0% punch control
smartsense
10-15 degrees of timing(0 on the motor can)
med start power
thr. and brk. curves linear
13/54 w/ a center diff

normally after a 5 min. run the motor was around 150 with ape$#!% power everywhere on the track(part of the reason most people know me as Max Power @ the tracks). was always faster than the other 4wd sc's down the straight no matter what track i was at. only problem was all the excess snap would lead to inconsistant lap times.

So in went the green machine 1406 4-pole 4600! Looks identical to the past cm36 motors except for the laser etched "4-pole for more tourqe" logo on one side. construction seemed top notch as always, but the kicker is when you turn the shaft over by hand! if the shaft were bigger i could have closed my eyes and thought it was a 2200:lol: Now for the best part, the man himself told me these were 200C magnets:surprised: thats like 400 F!!! with Patrick sugesting a range of 130-140C to be safe:lol: dude @ 250F im more worried about the car around it melting than damaging the motor magnets:rofl:

OK lets get back to it, so i opted for a 2s setup and snagged a turnigy 5000 30c from a buddy for a more usable rpm range for the med size track. Also i figured on 2s it would push the motor a little more in the heavy 4x4. on 2s it should have within ~1000rpm (about 35,000) of my heavier 550 motor on 3s. set the mmpro as follows:

1.29 firmware
auto lipo @ 3.0v
100% brakes
0% punch control
smartsense
0 degrees timing
med start power
thr. and brk. curves linear
15/54 w/ center diff

Lets just say that this thing rips! every bit as fast on the topend as my 550/3s setup, but much more managable for a speed junkie like myself. Basicaly i beat on this thing like it owed me money during practice and racing and couldnt get it to break 150F. didnt up timing or anything else cause it was fast enough already, but it was amazing how close all my lap times were! 20 sec lap is smokin for any class there, and i was clockin 21's all night long! Was my first race night on the new track layout and in a heat with 9 other unlimited trucks, half 4x4 half 4x2 i think. needles to say i was the only slash in a sea of Jammin's.

First qual went well and i took hold of second place early on and never looked back. Second qual.... uhhhh..... i think one of the jammins got jealous cause he basicly drove into the first corner pile up that closed up around me at full speed and destroyed my right rear axle. Despite my DNF in the second round i held my second qualifier spot in the main with a lap on the feild with a 14 5:22. The main felt like people were out to get me AND the track transponder died like 3laps in so lap times are ???? But i hammered down and pulled off a second place finish after lapping all but the guy in first place (cause he lapped me twice!). was a 7 min main and i think i pulled 20 laps. Oh i forgot to mention that "guy" was none other than Jammin's/Novaks Chad Bradley. The dude is fast in every class believe me!

even after that brutal 7 min race the motor was @ 150F!!! unbelievable!! all in all i must say this thing really felt right at home in the 4x4 slash. power band was super smooth but still had plenty of tourqe for quick passes and pop to clear larger jumps. didnt get a chance to use my watt meter for a ballpark of current draw, was busy helping my buddy run the program/race/and have his truck ready for his 2 classes. planning on some backyard track action this week so i will try it then.

As far as misses goes I gotta say im kinda at a loss. Other than being green and not matching (which i got over in like 5 minutes) it really is a great motor. I think the only thing that could make it better is if it were sensored. But honestly i never noticed the sensorless deal unless i crashed and the truck rolled backwards, pretty standard stuff though for sensorless, doesnt bother me a bit. More incentive to hold it together and not crash:oops:

Think Castle hit the nail on the head with the 4-pole 1/10 scale motors! their 3800kv sc combo is gonna be a monster(pun intended):lol: Oh yeah one last thought before the pics, how long you think it will be before we see the same 200C magnets in all their motors? Just food for thought....

Oh yeah........ GO CASTLE!!!!!!!!!

holy wow! VERY VERY nice.....
Is the only difference between the 4 and 2 pole 4600 the rotor? if so, would it be possible to put a 4 pole in my cm36 4600?

have not opened it up but judging from the description on the box i would say its safe to assume that the rotor is the main difference between the two. like i said above it looks identical to the previous cm36 motors except for the laser etching that states it has 4-poles. I dont really know for sure.

You also need a different stator. You cant really convert unless you really want to keep your can.

now im really curious... I'll have to pop her open tomorrow and compare it to cm-36 stator and see if there is any visible difference. it sure feels different when you turn it over by hand. betting it has a slotted stator vs. the cm36 which spins free with no "notchiness".

The stator would need to be different because a 4 pole motor has 2 sets of 3 phase windings rather than 3.

not really sure i follow.... 4-pole just means the rotor has four slices of magnet on it instead of 2.... you lost me on the "sets" of windings part.

If you open up a 2 pole motor you will see the stator is in 3 parts which the wire winds around. These create 6 electromagnetic poles which cause the motor to spin as it tries to align the rotor magnets. A 4 pole motor usually has more sets of windings to make more electromagnetic poles.

2 pole
http://www.hpieurope.com/graphics/wa..._diagram2t.jpg

When I was looking for a diagram I came across a diagram for a 4 pole motor using 3 sets of windings so maybe it is possible to use the same stator. I'm no expert.

http://home.solcon.nl/gjkool/brushle...schms-3p-E.JPG

http://home.solcon.nl/gjkool/brushle...s-6p-dhk-E.JPG

So you somehow failed to mention how/where you got this 4 pole 1406 motor?

I was thinking the same, I didn't know these were released yet...:neutral:

Must be a Beta.

Also, since he mentions the comparison between this and the 2200 motor (notchiness), I would imagine the stator is also a slotted type - like Neu, CC Neu, Tekin T8, etc. The 2 pole motors are slotless - like Feigao, Trx VXL, etc. So, a simple rotor swap wouldn't work.

Yep, just talked to Bernie in castle tech support and he confirmed the stator is different.

correctomundo! they should be released very soon, but i got this one a week or so ago from Patrick to run through its paces at the track and tell him what i thought. was a little shocked honestly, but we talked and boom, i get to test a new motor in the socal racing scene. gonna try to get to westcoast this week and run again, EVERYONE there is fast so it would be a great time and I could see how much can be squezed out of the little guy!

For those who were asking:

No, you can't upgrade the CM36 motors to a 1406 rotor... just wouldn't work. The 1406 uses a 4 pole rotor, and 12 slot stator. It's really just a miniature version of our award-winning 1515 motor.

It does have 200C rated magnets, 180C rated windings, and high performance bearings (NMB Japan.)

About a year ago, we started wondering how a "ROAR" legal size motor would perform with an internal design that was the same as the 1515. We had to reduce the rotor diameter a bit to meet the 36.02mm maximum outside diameter specified by ROAR, but after building samples and seeing how well the motor performed, we decided to roll out a whole line that matched our existing CM36 line.

The 1406 motor generates more torque, is more efficient over almost the entire operational band, and has much higher maximum power output than the CM36.

It is making it's debut at the Chicago show this week. :) That's why I gave Slim the OK to start a discussion about this new motor.

This motor uses the same internal construction as the 1410 (3800Kv) SCT motor, but uses a shorter rotor and stack to raise the Kv to 1/10th scale range.

well there you go, honey i shrunk the 1515! opened her up this morning and sure enough its a mini 15 series motor! no wonder it had so much power and didnt want to get hot, kinda deceiving for its size.

thanks again Patrick, great motor and some great info on it too. I think 4 pole 1/10 scale motors are gonna be the new standard after people see what they are capable of.

Great news! Now just add them to the motor sale. Lol

Can anyone say "VXL killer"? :lol:

I have a VXL in my e-jato only because Medusas are pretty scarce nowadays and the only other reasonably-priced easily-obtainable motor with a kv suited for 3-4s lipo was the VXL. Even then, I'm not entirely happy with it. It stays cool but doesn't have the snap I'm used to. The CM36 line has its uses I'm sure, but I bet you'll sell a lot of these 4 pole versions...

Want a medusa? Pm me if you want one.

I think I'll be changing soon.

And so it begins, anyone know if castle is a publicly traded company? Might be the time to buy some stock. I think it's great to see a company coming up with newer better ideas instead of copying or rebadging. Definately speaks volumes about the company in my opinion. Not to mention they are spearheading the "roar" sector of the market which has been long ruled by a select few manufactures. Would love to see castle take over, and with motors like these y'all better watch out ya hear?

Or VXL replacement?

Traxxas already uses the MMM combo in the ERBE and EMBL. I could definitely see them changing the VXL systems to this new Castle motor with a spec ESC. Then they could advertise the Rustler VXL at 80+mph... :whistle:

I think Brian had it right. VXL KILLER... Either this or the 1410 is replacing the VXL in the FLM Rustler... With 90% Al and Masher 2k's the VXL easily gets to 170*. Plus I really prefer Castle Products.

Patrick, Can you give us the inside scoop on the Winds available? Or just 4600kv to start? I ask because I would prefer something 3000-3500 (or just go 1410?) Good on 3s without winding out the RPMs too much... (~35,000 on 3s)

I just realized that 2s and this is right there at 35k RPM. But I have no 2s! :lol:

Pretty sure that they will come in all the same winds as the cm36 series and then the longer 1410 3800 kv.

Yeah, slim is right.

We will be offering a 7700Kv, 6900Kv, 5700Kv and 4600Kv.

(and of course, the 3800Kv 1410 motor...)

Thanx!

The 3800kv motor will be sweet on 3s. Just need a ~2200kv for 4s use. :smile:

That's coming... 1415, 2400Kv bundled with Mamba Max Pro...

We call it the SCT Pro -- or something like that. :whistle:

That right there is R/C pron! :oops:

Hey Patrick, Will these replace the current offerings in 1/10 scale? Also, can you say if you are looking at a similar motor design for the mini crowd? I'd like to see a 1210 in a 3500 to 4000kv for the mini E-revo

Won't replace -- but will be available as additional combos...

Will first be available in combo with the MMP, and as standalone.

Thanx!

Patrick

Ooohhh man! The box for the 1406 was right.... Are your gears strong enough? We will find out huh? Can't wait to thow a 3s to this 4600 and watch her fly!

ok thanks, nothing wrong with the CM36 motors thats for sure. My 4600 is 3+years old and still humming along

How soon will we see any of these at retailers Patrick?

These motors look so cool I might have to buy a new vehicle just so I can get one. Maybe it's time I get a short course truck.

I'd love to see a sensored 1800kv rock crawler version of these 4 pole cm36's. Probably not worth the time and cost of development for a niche market though.

I was going to ask the same question, I want at least one 4600/1406 and one 3800/1410. I think the 2400/1415 will make a nice motor to try my theory of low volt high gear plan, 2s while gearing for mid to upper 30's

Differential Ratio: 2.6
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 78
Pinion Tooth Count: 38
Total Voltage: 7.4
Motor KV: 2400
Tire Diameter (inches): 4
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.05 : 1
Total Ratio: 5.33684 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 12.57 inches (319.19 mm)
Rollout: 2.35:1
Total Motor Speed: 17760 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 39.6 mph (63.61 km/h)
Effective KV Value: 2400
KT constant: 0.56 oz-in/A

this will be in a associated T4 If i can find a big enough pinion and fit it in. I already have a similar setup with a Lehner basic XL 1200 and 5s lipo (low for the KV) mid 30's with near 30 minutes of runtime with 2500 flightpower 5s pack

4-pole 7700? Get outta here!!! Gonna have to increase the motor budget :whip:

Unless I can work out a sponsorship with CC :lol:

There ya go NitroStarter. 80mph Rustler All Day Long... :yes:

Not to mention 120+ TC5's *Co-Bondo-ugh*

:O

combos? me likey!

:D

That was gonna be my first question :) i've wanted a mmpro and a decent motor for the hyper 10tt i'm gonna convert... this looks like the combo to go for ;)

Warning -- spoiler: (Got this from Steven Jones this morning -- he's the Castle engineer working on 14xx series motor testing and tuning...)

From: Steve Jones
Subject: 1415 2400Kv dyno results
to: engineering

Summary:
This thing rocks!
With 32pitch gears i hit a peak efficiency of 88% (!!!!) but i didn't have a low enough gear ratio and ran out of brake on the dyno.
...
Overall this motor performed excellently.

88% through gears into the dyno -- And with gear losses, the real efficiency is even higher...

All in all, excellent news on the Neu/Castle motor front.

any hints on pricing patrick?