Brushless Boat Question
 

I'm looking into getting a brushless boat.

I've never owned or even driven a boat before. What would be a good boat platform to start with? There are many options out there and I just don't want to buy some junk my first time out.

I've owned a few brushless trucks and I don't mind working on the boat of doing mods to it.

I'd like to spend $300-400 for the majority of the parts needed for the boat. I have a Spektrem Tx/Rx that I think should work.

Thanks for the help,
Nick

You want to try one RTR with a castle esc/medusa/spectrum?

I have one for sale

I have a Spartan and it's decent but I wish I did more research and started with a Miss Geico

I started to look at the Spartan, but then found the Proboat and AquaCraft were more recommended by veteran boat people.

Right now I'm looking at the Proboat Impulse 31 or the AquaCraft Motley Crew. Both around the $320-350 range.

These were the most recommended boats from the people over at Off Shore Electrics.

Nick

Sounds like good advice if you dont like building and want a RTR boat, if you may want to upgrade it later go for the impulse, which will handle a full on P mono or P offshore race setup, whereas the AQ MC will fall apart if upgraded to much faster than stock.

That is not to say that they are not both race worthy boats, impulse will run P Spec mono or P Spec offshore classes as it comes, and the MC will run P Spec offshore as it comes.

What do you want out of a boat, how will you run it, in what conditions will you run it, on what size lake, how important are aesthetics to you? these are all questions that you should think about to decide what type of boat you want. Outriggers are the fastest, depending on sponson design can handle rough water well, are second best turning to the right, but dont turn left at all, are ugly and use up a lot of lake. scale hydroplanes are the second fastest, and are beautifull but dont turn right all that well, dont turn left at all, are the worst in rough water or high winds and take up the most amount of room on a lake. Cats are middling in the speed range and do well in rough water but not so great in the wind, there are 2 types, wide ones like the AQ MC that turn both ways very well and narrow ones like the Genesis that dont turn that well either way but are faster and better in the rough/wind. Monos are the slowest of the surface drive boats but are the best in very rough water as they can be made to self-right, like narrow cats they offer middle of the road turning in both directions. Submerged drive boats like ECOs are the slowest, but make up for it with huge acceleration, by turning in both directions jaw droppingly well, and are ideal for those with small lakes to play on, however if you are in the USofA and want to race I dont believe there is any ECO racing going on at the moment, so check with your local club. (in fact thats good advice for any of them, if you want to race or feel like you possibly may do in the future, do to your local club and see what others are running, to avoid building an amazing P Spec offshore for example, then finding that class isn't raced in your area.)

Size matters too a 16" Mini boat can be a lot of fun on a small budget, if you put that same budget into a bigger boat it would be pretty slow and boring, but if you have a bigger budget a bigger boat will handle any given wave conditions better and as always be more impressive

Once you have decided what size of what sort of boat you want then think about your build skills RTRs are easy and normally fairly cheap as it will all be Chinese gear assembled in China, but the quality of the gear and the build will not be the best as they are made to a price point, if you go with a RTR at least gge a good pull on the motor/servo/battery mount to make sure they are glued in solidly and make sure the driveshaft is lined up with the motor coupling, as these are often points of RTR failure, oh check all the screws too. If you are capable and willing to put your own labour into it you will probably end up with a better boat in the end but you may also be surprised to find that it costs you just as much or more if you don't use all Chinese components, which is the savings of bulk buying covering the Chinese labour cost, but you will undoubtedly put more care and attention into the build that a Chinaman with a quota of 20 boats to build today. RTRs also limit your choice severely as there are only a few good ones out there of all the types put together. Riggers, Tenshock Y and Mini Y. Hydros, AQ UL1. Cats, Toysport Jolly, AQ MC, PB miss Geico, PB Mystic, Astec Apperition. Monos, PB impulse 31, Toysport synchron, Toysport triton, Tenshock Mono1, Kintec rocket, Kintec persuit Joysway offshore warrior. Submerged drive, Tenshock Eco, Toysport Joker, Tenshock Mini ECO.
which is a pretty comprehensive list of all the RTRs that I think are worth a damn, and you wont find a tenshock or toysport in your LHS, tenshocks are only available in the USofA through minicatracing, and toysport arent so much an RTR as a smallscale hull company, but Joseph is happy to fit out his hulls to whatever stage the customer wants so are available RTR though neither hull hardware nor labour is chinese so as ever the quality comes at a price. If you are willing to build in wood from a kit or plans, or just fit out an empty glass hull the choice of top quality boats becomes much larger and there are numerous good hulls for each type in many different sizes.

Which Spektrum is it that you have? The early Spektrum steering wheel radios didn't work well for boats, if you have a DSM2 5+ channel aeroplane set it will be fine as is, or if it is a steering wheel set with a picture of a boat on it will be OK if you get a MR3000 or MR200 reciever to go with it. If its a steering wheel set without a picture of a boat on it, it's low power DSM1 s#!t and not worth losing your boat over.

Check out the website in my signature, lots more info there than I can put in a post.

I also have been pondering a boat for yrs seeing as I am surrounded by ponds and salt water. Just never got the bug I guess. Although with the summer fast approaching, I am thinking of one again.

Wow that is a lot of info right there. Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all of this to me.

I will be using this boat as a test to see if I really like driving/ owning a boat in general. I will be using it on a good size lake in ME along with other small bodies of water around where I live.

I'm not looking to race at all or join a boat club.

I have a newer Spektem DX3S but I would need a Marine receiver.

I think I would be running on mostly calm waters most of the time. The lake in ME is pretty quiet just small boats and anywhere else wouldn't have any boats in it.

If I do get a boat I will be going out with a buddy of mine who does a good amount of fishing on local ponds around the area, once he sees mine he will probably want one as well.

I think for my first boat I'd like to stay with a RTR boat, then if I do like it a lot then I'll build my own.

Thanks again for the help,
Nick

For a RTR to do general boating about in a mix of large and small lakes with calm water I would probably go for the AQ Motley crew, but some may say I'm biased towards cats, while I've had all the types of boats, most have been cats.

When you become blase with the speed don't stick a bigger motor in it, build yourself a 4s rigger with a 1515 in it and make your mate's jaw hit the floor. Again!

Once again, thank you very much for the information and help.

Why do you prefer a cat over a regular v hull?

Can you show me some pictures, video and build threads on a 4s rigger with a 1515? Also, what am I looking at price wise to build something like that?

Nick

Keep in mind, the run times on a boat will not be the runtimes you get in your land vehicles. Boats are normally run wide open throttle for the majority of a run which eats up mah.

hydro
 

Very true, 5s 5000mah lasted me about 17 minutes in my RC8T, 5 minutes in my Spartan. I bought a set of Traxxas 10,000mah packs and I get about 9:30 out of them.

I prefer the speed and handling of cats and like to live life on the edge so a little less stability in the wind doesn't bother me. If it is an issue to you get the Tenshock Mono1 as it is the only self-righting RTR close to your budget.

Plenty of info on the boat mini_t racer linked in this thread on RRR & OSE

I built the boat above and it cost me:-
$100 for the kit
$130 hardware.
$199 1412/1y is the motor I wanted but Nue wont let you order direct and it was taking castle so long the Emailed me asking if I wanted to cancel and I had a line on a used 1415/1.5D so ended up paying $120 for that motor.
all the rest of it was bought here in the UK or used from my stores so aproximate dollar prices for new replacements from here on.
$45 Skywing 200A ESC
$15 thermal epoxy to watercool the above air ESC
$5 alloy tube to watercool the above air ESC.
$5 electronic grade silicone sealant to waterproof the above ESC, RX and Servo.
£100-200 4s battery pack, last 2 seasons I went for the cheap end, this year I will be getting an expensive TP pack.
$60 servo.
$10 6mm bullets.
$5 bottle of medium cyno.
$15 30 min epoxy.
$30 epoxy laminating resin to seal the wood.
$40 paint, paint is optional as the laminating resin makes it waterproof and the natural wood does look pretty good, I used primer 2 colours and clear which all adds up.
$10 stanley/craft knife.
$10 emery paper.
$5 grease for cable.
$5 oil for motor bearings.
$200 Futaba 6EX radio/$65 for RX/free as I had it already, depending on your viewpoint.
Prop, sky is the limit here $7 for graupner carbon props that dont need balancing, 10-20 for BeCu or stainless metal props if you can sharpen and balance them yourself, $20 for a good magnetic balancer, $30-70 if you need someone else to do it for you, or $1000+ for a box full of props built up over the years like I have.

The one on the right hand side is my 1415 rigger.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/img_1745.jpg

I may as well answer you PM here so all can see, i favor the AQ MC to the PB Impulse Purely de to my own bias towards cats and personal preference, there is nothing wrong with either for the stock power, it is just like me prefering buggies to monster trucks, and F1 to Nascar.

The PB impulse and AQ MC both have very similar power systems and as such will give similar run times, as nitrostarter said dont expect anything like the run time of your cars/trucks though, if i pull ovals with my onroad buggy i get peaks of 120A but the average ampdraw is only 20A my boats which are set up for Naviga hydro racing I pull an average of 70A with peaks of 120A 15 min runs with the buggy and 5 minute runs with the boat, and that is quite a soft setup compared to the states where sprint racing it the norm, for 5-6 laps and its all done in a minute and a half, if you are concerned with runtimes stay away from the big 1415/1515s and stick with the stock spec motors which will give you over 5 mins on the stock prop.

I moved on from RTRs before RTRs came along and as such I have had neither but I believe the Impulse 31 does have room for 4s2p but the AQ MC does not have room for 2p, 2p does not necessarily mean you can run twice as long though anyway as the extra heatsoak from that long runtime may be too much, those that race with 2p may be discharging less than 5000mAh in the minute or so that they are running for but need the 2p, to avoid large voltage drops on the high currents they pull and the weight to keep the boat on the water at the high speeds, while they may have the capacity to run for 3 minutes if they actually ran that long they would fry the motor or ESC.

http://www.minicatracingusa.com/vmono.html

Is this the same as the Tenshock Mono1? It looks to be the same one. It's weird how this webstie has everything else discontinued, not available or only one of a color left?

I think I'm going to take your advice, this looks like a bad ass little machine.

Wow those Riggers look like a ton of fun. Lots of torque coming from those boats.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I just need to sell my Ten-T now and I'll be good to go.

Nick

No that is the one that I called the Joysway offshore warrior, as Joysway is the manafacturer and that is the name they gave it, its a decent boat by any name though and I forgot that it is self righting too, it is a 17" mini size boat for 3s 2000mAh ish packs. The Tenshock Mono1 is a bigger boat at 23" for 2s5000/3s3500mAh ish packs.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/img_0791.jpg
My Tenshock mono 1 , only thing Tenshock is the hull itself though as I got a good deal on it used and put my own bits in it.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...racing3of7.jpg
My JAE.21FE, there's nothing faster or more of an adrenalin rush than a rigger, they can get into (and out of) trouble so quickly they really do make your knees knock here I'm getting a little out of shape on the wake of another 4s Hydro that I am overtaking, and by the next frame 1/3 of a second later its settled back down to normal attitude as it was a second before.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...racing4of7.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...racing8of7.jpg
My Aeromarine Mean Machine on 8s, coming out of the right turn onto the pit straight and flying nicely, if you like a bit of style with your adrenaline and enjoy living life on the edge, then cats are where its at.

I wish there was a place in the US that sold the Tenshock Mono1. It looks like it is just available in the UK.

Thanks again for the help and the pics. I need to find someone local to me with a boat so I can try this out before I buy one.

Looks like a TON of fun.

Nick

MinicatRacing have exclusive deal with tenshock to be the sole importer to USA, they decided not to stock the Mono one on the basis of the older and uglier version which didn't sell well, speak to them and they may add one to their next order though. Being as you are in the states, the 20% VAT sales tax we pay here would not apply to you, and I have imported bigger hulls from the states for around $50 so I wouldn't be surprised if you could get one delivered to you in the states from Heaths in the UK as cheap or cheaper than I could get it 70 miles away.

I will probably get some stick for this, but FE model boats are a LOT more fun than model cars IMO, if I had a lake on my doorstep as I have a road now, I would never use my cars again.

Once again, thanks Paul.

I'm going to e-mail MinicatRacing and Heaths and see what they quote for a price delivered.

I've been looking at the PB Impulse 31, do you really think the Tenshock Mono1 is that much better than this boat? To go through all of this trouble. I can get Proboat parts at my local hobby store.

That is a bold statement about boats vs cars. I guess I'm going to find out.

Thanks again,
Nick

They are very different the Tenshock is a stepped hull and the impulse isn't, sstepped hulls rule you out of Mono races in America but as you dont intend to race that doesnt matter, the stepped hull is a more efficient design but at the end of the day its a smaller and much less powerful boat, the Impulse has at least the capability of being faster even if it isn't with the stock prop, in race mode the Tenshock runs for 6 minutes on 2s and the Impulse runs 4 minutes on 4s but the more efficient design means it wont be much slower despite having 1/3rd the power. where the tenshock wins out is that its self-righting as it comes , which is an awesome feature to have as you can go out and boat even if the waves are big or its windy, the impulse can probably be made to self-right with the addition of a flood chamber (most Monos can) but it is a pretty big and scary modification for a newb. boating requires a certain amount of reading the water to how fast you can go in which direction with the conditions of the day and self-righting means you haven't got to get the boat or wait for it to come in when you get it wrong which speeds up the learning process.

What packs do you have? From the KVs in your signature you could be running anything from 4s-6s if you have a bunch of 4s packs from trucks and no 2s packs from cars it makes the Impulse cheaper, conversely, if you have neither the tenshock is getting better with its half price packs, and if your trucks are 5s/6s and you have some 2s packs from 1:10th touring cars, the tenshock is a much cheaper proposition.

Boats are not like cars where you need a local supply for arms, hinge pins, body posts, shock towers that you break frequently. If you maintain it well (grease the strut/flex before running, take the flex out at the end of the day, dry and oil it to stop it rusting, and a drop of oil on the motor bearings) you will need very little in the way of parts. Stock plastic props break, (but I wouldn't swap for another Proboat one, either a Graupner carbon (still break but a better prop while it lasts) metal from Octura, ABC, Prather (need sharpening and balancing) or a CNC alloy from ETTI, R2, Tenshock ( break less often than plastic/carbon but can still be dinged my debris, sharp and pre-balanced but expensive) (one and you will want new bearings in the strut every couple of years, and new batteries every year or two as well because the high constant currents of boats do stress cells more than cars do.

Wow you are a wealth of knowledge.

I'm running 4s packs right now and I have a few 2s packs as well. I would like to use 2-4s backs in series and 4s with 10,000mah but only if the motor/esc can take that.

What I'm concerned about is run times and being able to retrive the boat. A friend of mine, who will be with me most of the time, has a small boat that we could use. Other than that I'm on my own.

What would be a good setup for a longer runtime? 10 minutes plus?

Thanks again for all of your help,
Nick

A fishing pole with a tennis ball is often used to retrieve dead boats as well.

I don't think any of the RTRs will take 2-4s packs in series, as most of the cheaper ESCs only go up to 6s Max, and 2x 4s packs in series is of course 8s.

The PB impulse will take lots of 4s2p 10,000mAh setups just fine, but a few of the taller cells may not fit under the subhatch, and necessitate you running without it. 10,000mAh should get you 10 mins on the stock prop or a similar sized metal one.

The Tenshock will not take 2s2p 10,000mAh or 4s 5,000mAh and as such you would have to prop down to get 10 minutes runtime and as such the impulse would be considerably faster if they were both setup for 10 minutes.

I am sure the Impulse can be made to self-right with a flood chamber on 4s1p but am not sure you have room for the chamber and offset weight with 4s2p in it, as few folks here run 2p and few folk in the states run self-righting monos for some reason (in Europe they all are) I know its ugly but I would try strapping a big (empty) plastic coke bottle to the top and seeing if that will flip it over in the bath, if it does then strap it on for your first few runs untill you learn what waves you can take at what speed in what direction, then you have a much better chance of getting back to shore upright when you take it off.

Nitrostarter is right about the fishing pole, I use a cheap childrens telescopic fishing rod, with a tennis ball on it for rescue when I'm boating alone (there's rescue boats at all the races), though I keeep thinking of but never get round to upgrading the tennis ball to something a little smaller, as when wet its pretty darned heavy and makes the last section of the rod bend a worrying amount, and it doesnt half make a loud thump when you score a direct hit, which is quite scary though i have seen no signs of damage from it yet. You dont need an amazingly strong line as your not trying to pick the boat up, just drify it in and it takes very little force but having the last couple of meters/yards made from plastic coated stainless "pike wire" (do you have pike over there? if not its 20-30lb metal line for use with fish that have teeth) is a good idea as I learned early on when i cast over the boat, started reeling in and then it got strangely easy, strange that is till I saw the tennis ball floating away, it had wrapped round the sharp rudder and cut itself free. I got both boat and ball back about 15 minutes later as I was standing on the bank with the wind blowing towards me, which is another top tip.

If your ESC has a programmable cutoff, set the voltage nice and high so you still have some left to get you back to the bank when it hits, timing the run helps too, if you have a stopwatch/digital watch/egg timer/friend/clever TX, as then you will only ever have to hit the LVC once, then time your runs so you come in earlier.