Ordered an electric 'motorcycle', err... scooter
 

hey guys, long time no see. i've been busy with home-ownership stuff and haven't had much of a chance to play with toys...until i saw this:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...01023977_n.jpg
100% brushless electric (rear hub), max mph: 30 mph, distance per charge: 40 miles.

it has a 48-volt, 80-amp SLUNCE battery pack that provides up to 2,000 charges, with a charge time of 2.5-4.5 hours.

here are more specs - anyone have experience with one of these? at a price of $1250, i had to order one. my head is reeling with ways to mod it - but i'm not familiar with that controller (interesting that it's a USB controller)
• Frame Type—Maxi-Scooter
• Frame Material—Steel Alloy Wheelbase of 64"
• Rear Suspension—Adjustable Tension Coil-Over Shocks
• Fork—1-3/8" Single Crown Scooter Fork
• Total Weight—386 Pounds
• Cargo Capacity Max—295 Pounds
• Motor Type—High Output Sealed Permanent Magnet Brushless Direct Current (BLDC) Rear Hub Motor
• Peak Power—1.5 kW at 4500 RPM
• Peak Continuous Current—60 Amps
• Torque—200nm at 0-1050 RPM
• Controller—60-Volt, 150-Amp USB Programmable Kelly Controller
• Charger—60-Volt, 20-Amp Charger that Plugs into a Standard 110-Volt Outlet
• Tires—Kuna® Cross Street Tread, 130/60-10
• Brakes—Front & Rear Dot Hydraulic Disc Brake with Electric Motor Cutoff and Brake Switches (L/R)
• Quick Disconnect Wire Connections

i think this is their source for the hub motors and controllers: http://kellycontroller.com/brushless...tors-c-62.html

i can't find anything on the 'slunce batteries', other than the solar-powered company www.slunce.us.com

Hope it works out for you

Yeah, when I went on vacation to Niagara Falls last time, they had these things for rent so you could drive around the vineyards and sample the wine.

It was a lot of fun and they really will surprise you when you get on them. Good speed and great battery life. They would not really work around where I live because they would not go fast enough but as long as you stay to the side of the road, you should be fine. Since it is electric, you don't need to register or insure them or anything.

My vote is yes!

Cool scooter man.

i know it's not the most 'manly' thing to drive, but i'll use it for my commute to work and back (i live only 3.5 miles from where i work). that'll definitely soak up some savings in gas - $60-$70 every other week from my gas-guzzling premium-drinking Z.

this is what i wanted, but the wife said no. someday... :yes:

http://www.brammo.com/empulse/

Those Brammo's are nice!

I have a schwinn motorcycle heh(E-scooter from costco with no plastics) I drive that thing every night like an after dinner espresso. Took all the reflectors off so the 1x cant catch me going over the bridge along the bike paths

Cool scooter! Have fun!

Hey hashemo where do you live? Just wondering about what you said about insurance and registry.

i can't speak for hashemio, but here in MI any vehicle that does 30 mph or less doesn't need to be titled and doesn't need insurance. i have to go to the DMV (sec of state) and get an $18 permit, which includes a sticker to put on the back of the scooter.

I like it , where do I purchase something like this ? Can you post some details , price seems right - thankyou

this is their website, and info on the metro 2. they also have a metro which is basically the same thing, but goes up to 60 mph...and an electric car.
http://www.greenbeeev.com/Green_Bee_Metro_2_.html

i got a groupon deal where it's half off the metro 2. i don't know if this groupon works in your area, though.
http://www.groupon.com/deals/dc-brd-...&c=deal_button

i think its pretty cool

I can't find anything on SLUNCE batteries, maybe it's an acronym?

i'll find more out about the batteries when they contact me to get payment for shipping. (memory, how long it can sit without a charge, etc.) it looks like Kelly includes a charger in their kit, but i can't find anywhere on kelly's site about what batteries it charges.

edit: ahh, here we go:
http://kellycontroller.com/f4815-48v...ger-p-105.html

Green Bee just posted this:
apparently it uses technology from their sister company, http://slunce.us.com/

got an update on saturday. they told me to pay shipping and tax applicable for my state: $350 and $75 respectively. then they issued a refund the next day of $75, and the note said 'you sent too much money. we are returning the rest. thank you.'

i'm curious as to how over-engineered the system is. can i use a 52v battery pack instead of the 48v it comes with to get a little extra speed?

1250$ is very cheap for a electric scooter ;)

she just got here this afternoon. it's currently charging - the battery was just about completely depleted, so i'll take my first test ride when i get home from work. she's more sophisticated than they advertise: it has regenerative braking, an alarm that senses if someone is rolling it and locks the hydraulic brakes, and an ignition feature that locks the handlebars all the way to the left so it can't be turned.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...54938092_o.jpg

Nice scooter man. So when are the upgrades coming in??:yes::yes:

i've decided to wait until i ride it a few times and have a chance to tear it apart and see what i'm already dealing with (space, etc.). then, all bets are off. :lol:

These electric jobbys are incredible for night missions. Need a switch that shuts the lights all off, and 2nd paint the white black and get a black seat cover. Around here we have bike paths going for miles (not legal for the scooters) get from point a to b in 60 seconds though

found out last night the LVC on the charger is bad. gotta call them today and get a new charger (and possibly a new battery). it has 2 red lights, and when the battery is charged/balanced, one turns green. i was told it only takes 4-5 hours to charge a fully depleted battery, i had it on for 7+ hours...thinking it was the first time it was charged and it would take longer. grrrrrr..... Green Bee has some bugs to work out! lol

(i was talking with the guy who delivered it, and he said they're assembled at their plant in CA, but they switched to Chinese components. most likely like the charger)

oh, and it goes faster than they say, too - 40 mph, 45 on a slight downhill. :) the throttle is sensitive too - just the slightest twist makes your head snap back!

very cool, makes me wish i had room for one, oh well if i put it in my kitchen it make a good conversation piece lol

bombed around on it last night to run a couple of errands, and took it to
work today for the first time. i get some weird looks, i guess trying to figure
out why what looks like a vespa doesn't make an engine noise, lol. it's fun -
just hop on, turn the key to 'on', twist the throttle and go.

called the guy who delivered it and explained the charger problem, and they're
sending me a new one. so far their customer service rocks.

Love your scooter. It looks good with that retro look. I don't know if you opened it up to see what's inside yet but at almost 400 pounds, I suspect you have a whole lot of Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) Batteries hidden in there. At 1200 bucks, I don't expect that you have a lithium battery in there. No worries though, if you want more speed and torque and want transform this scooter into a low speed motorcycle that goes up to 70 or even 80 km/h then all you need is some knowledge, some time and a lot of money lol. Have fun with it, I know I have a ball playing with mine. These things can become a hobby even more addictive than RC.

thanks - i love it. i can see already the need for more speed - but for now, i'm fine with 40-45.

i'll open it up real soon to check out the powertrain, but the batteries have me intrigued. this is the most technical info i found - a spokesperson from Green Bee
said in a post on facebook: 'Green Bee Metro 1 and Metro 2 use our very own SLUNCE batteries that are silicone salt based batteries which are non toxic, recyclable and have better performance than lead-base toxic batteries...'

i have NO clue. all i know is that SLUNCE is a sister company to Green Bee, which deals with solar power. i'll have to pick up a lithium pack that's the same voltage and find the harness to hook it up to.

If they have a sister company that does solar stuff then I'm guessing here that they are using batteries in the scooter that they also use for storing power in their solar systems. It also looks to me that they are trying to glorify what is basically SLA batteries. Like I said, almost 400 pounds is extremely heavy for this scooter so it must have a lot of heavy batteries hidden in there. I'm just guessing here. I run a very similar scooter and after I took the SLAs out of it, it weighed 180 pounds. I put a 25 pound lithium battery in it and ran like that for a while at 205 pounds (was 300 pounds with the SLAs). It is unbelievable the difference it makes on how the scooter handles when you take so much weight out of it. It accelerates faster, transitions faster and brakes faster. It's like a totally different machine.

oh i believe you - there isn't enough to the scooter to make it almost 400 pounds except batteries, lol.
i'm not interested in building my own batteries, so i'll have to look for prismatic cell packs already built.
plus, it'll be nice to take the batteries out of the scooter to charge them - something i currently can't do
with the current configuration.

do you have a vendor you recommend that sells already-build packs? i haven't read through many e-bike
threads here, maybe i'll do that. thanks for the help & insight!

There's a few out there, the most talked about are Ping batteries and Cellman. On a budget go with Ping, with more money go with Cellman. But I've read about so many already who ran with Ping with very good success for more than a couple years. I read that you have a 60V controller and a 60V charger.

60V 30Ah Ping

thanks so much! one of those Pings will work nicely. now i just have to save for them. i might start with a single 15ah pack and see how much runtime i get. if it's good, i might get a 2nd one to keep charged and in the trunk as a spare, so i don't wind up walking my scooter back home due to a depleted battery.

2 things: first, Slunce no longer has a working web page. 2nd, the nail in the coffin. there are more than a handful SLA's...you were right.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../403926903.jpg

sjees. That nude pic didn't look too good to me. Swap the batts out man.

You won't go very far with a 200+ pound scooter with only 15Ah. And if you have let's say 60Ah current draw on starts and going up hills then you're putting 4C on that 15Ah battery. I get spikes of almost 80Ah on my 225 pound scooter with me (245) sitting on it. Go with lots of amps for good torque and lots of voltage for good speed which will give you lots of Wh for good range. Go big or go home :lol: But what do I know, I'm still a newb at this stuff. But it's fun.
You can run those SLAs for a while, I did for a full year before I learned enough to tackle making my own battery.

Man I am smiling now looking at that AC looking breaker with the tiny 12 gauge wires, like the breaker I have on my scooter. They look exactly the same. Except mine has 6 gauge welding wire going in it :yes:
I will soon change that breaker for a more suitable fuse and an emergency contactor. I read that these AC breakers will not trip fast enough and the DC current will arc inside and melt the whole thing rendering them useless as a safety feature.

it's rated for 48v - won't 60 possibly fry the controller? i can get a 30ah pack that's 48v - wouldn't that be better? i'll keep the SLAs in there for a while while i learn - i've been into r/c electronics for quite a while, but never really got the hang of the battery tech math, lol

edit: nevermind. i just read that you're pushing 72v 30ah - are you still using the same 48v controller that it came with? strange that yours and mine are so similar! :)

No I have a different controller that I bought from a guy on Endless-Sphere. Your controller probably has a controller with 63V caps in it so it might survive running on a 60V lithium battery. Many have done it with no problems with 60V of SLAs. Some have done it with 60V lithium and they didn't report any failures of their controller. They didn't even need to upgrade the DC/DC converter.

ok - well since i'm no where near ready to drop $1700+ on a 60v LiFePO4 pack, i had another idea. but - some new insight on my current setup. the current SLA's total 80Ah, but only 48v. that must be how they 'over engineered' the system. the controller is 60v. so, i should be good if i get up to 60v, so long as i don't introduce more current.

i'm thinking a less expensive but lighter setup is hardcase lipos. i'm not crazy about using lipos as there are a few big bumps on my way to work and around town, but the scooter is full suspension, and if i enclose all the hardcase lipos in more foam, they should be fine.

problem is, i can't seem to wrap my mind around how many of these i'd need. they are in 2s2p configurations, so i'd need 18 to get to 59.2 nominal volts. it's been so long since i've done this that i forgot how joining packs together works... the above example of 18 packs wired in serial would be 59.2v, but still 6000mAh, correct?

This is going to get costly. 8x7.4=59.2 nominal.(series) This would be 1- 6 amp hour "cell". Then you would need 13 of these "cells" wired in parallel to get a 78 amp hour pack. 8x13=104 of those 2s2p 6 amp hour lipo packs. Using round figures-104x$30=$3120! Ouch!! Don

lol - ok, thanks don for the insight. the part of my brain that wasn't communicating was the fact that 8 lipos in series x 13 rows in parallel. guess i'll just stick to saving for that 60v lithium pack. :lol:

I don't know how many SLA bricks you have in there to get to 80Ah. I was running 34Ah of SLAs before and could get 45 km of range on summer weather. A quarter of that in winter, SLAs don't do well in the cold. Man 80Ah of SLAs is a lot, a 20Ah 12V SLA is like 7.1''long by 3'' wide by 6.5'' high. Geez 48V 80Ah would be 16 of those bricks hidden in that scooter. I don't think that's possible, I'm thinking they say the scooter has 80Ah of battery but I'm doubting that claim. You need to take the whole thing apart :rofl: We want to know the truth about your scooter :intello:

Going lipo on a scooter is not like going lipo on a bicycle IMHO. Scooters are heavy and need more Ah, so more cells in parallel. If I were to go lipo, which I don't wish to because lipo don't have a long life compare to LiFePO, I would get single Turnigy 5000 mah 20C cells and make a battery in 16S6P to have 59.2V nominal and 30Ah. At $8.50 per cell that's $816. Lets say $900 for a Lipo battery that might be good for 300 cycles. And remember, you're sitting on that battery.

And can you reduce the size of that pic up there, I'm tired of scrolling sideways :lol: