MY turn to Ask the QUESTIONS
 

Ok guys, I feel that I can trust you all to give me a bunch of good straight up answers here.............so here is the question.

What electric or nitro/mod to electric truck or buggy should I look at for just your basic backyard/Street/gravel pit bashing and a good brushless set-up to go with it. Main factors no monster tires (not into the car crushing look) easy access to parts and low cost..........I'm trying to get my step son interested in r/c and the planes are just to tuff at this stage.........but when I had the Stampede he could crank that around pretty damn good..............I'd like to possibly do 2 so that we can run together instead of me taking the controls from him all of the time............I'm hoping that with my new job that I will have the funds for this sometime this summer cause the gravel pit behind my property is just calling for some trashing.

I welcome all of your comments guys so lets here em'

An e-maxx would be a rather good choice, but it needs hopups to be made good;
-3.3 driveshafts
-3.3 knuckles
-flm aluminum cups
-steel idlers in the transmission
-proper shocks that don't pop as soon as the truck lands a bit wrong
-proper servo saver
-good spur/slipper

i personally like/prefer a savage for a basher;

a new Savage X comes standard with good shocks, camshaft servo saver, tough drivetrain (including 1/8th 6 spider diffs with upgraded tough aluminum cups, a MOD1 dual slipper and steel driveshafts over the stock tupperware of the e-maxx) and with some tweaking you can make a fair stable racer out of it as well.

I would personally vote for the savage.
here is the latest savage i converted to electric;
http://picasaweb.google.com/buikpijn/CarbonSavage

No monster truck tires... meaning no super wide tractor treads, or no truck tires at all? That would eliminate al trucks. I don't do the wide 40 series type stuff either. You might like the Moabs for bashing... they have the rock crawler/ mud tire look. They look good on a 1/10 truck imo.

For 1/10 scale:

I like the Stampede for kids and bashing in the yard... makes a cheap basher without too many hopups.

The HPI Wheelie King would be a neat 4wd basher.

THe HPI 4wd nitro stadium truck "MT2" makes a good bahser too.... tough driven train and 4wd without the size and weight of a 1/8.

A 4wd buggy would be good too... the Tamiya Dark Impact is a cool car. I have thought about getting one of those for my kids.

Then there is the big stuff... emaxx..savage..all the 1/8 buggy/trucks... ANY 1/8 buggy or truck would work good.

If you like the buggies here's an Ofna hyper7 roller for about $200
http://www.nitrohouse.com/blowout_specials.htm

I'd actually say a Jato. It doesn't have any huge tires and has that sleek fast look, it will be very easy to convert, and it will be nice and tough. It also wont kill the wallet.

Yeah, the Jato was quite easy to convert. You just need to get the single speed conversion for the tranny and make the motor mount, batt holder, and some type of place to put the electronics...

I built my 8 year old a Monster GT. Accommodating the motor and esc were easy, but I did have to get a bit creative with the tranny to lock it into first gear and remain strong enough to take the torque of the brushless. After having gotten it built, the only things I've had to replace are rod ends. It's a VERY tough setup, although the tires are on the big side.

To keep things affordable, I went with a Mamba Max controller, a Feigao 8XL, and a 4S2P 8Ah maxamps pack. It runs for it seems like forever, with the conservative gearing. The whole things acts like a fast crawler.

This is great guys.........GD I need to ask what the 4x is in your avitar..........I had a Tamiya Fox back when I was 14 yrs old that was tricked out with Hot Trick racing products........it had a losi Can motor and a lot of extra goodies that Hot Trick made........all of the parts where basically modified RC-10 stuff. I may look at another Stampede for the kid but I think I need something like a stadium truck for myself........

I think a associated T4 would be a good choice for brushless

the 4wd buggy in GD avatar is a kyosho optima

In my opinion, a HPI MT2 18ss would be great. It is a the size of a 1/10 scale stadium truck, yet is 4wd so it would rarely get stuck in the deep gravel.

crazyjr I looked at the T4, I like it but 4x would be even better I'm gonna see what I can find out on the HPI MT2 18ss.........be back soon

HPI...........big nope no nitro..........and I don't think a conversion would be the way to go.........

Why not HPI?... they are a great reliable company.

the only rc they made that fits you're criteria is the RS4mt electric. too bad they don't make it anymore

In this situation.......I really really don't see anything but a pede/rusty stepping up to the plate. It is the only RC I know of that is simple/tuff-enough to do the job. Lets face it. The dam things are tough as nails, easy to power, and dirt dirty cheap to maintain. I'm sorry if I offend anyone here....but any other recommendation for this situation is just BS. Tuff/cheap/brushless............I mean come on guys. Traxxas pede/rusy/or bandit is all there is. Everything else is either crap/pricey/or just too complicated.

You came to the wrong place with that argument..

maybe a mini lst if you keep it stock they run great and for about 200 and they are alot of fun but if you start to upgrade it be prepared to hold on to your wallet.

Most accurate post if I ever saw one. :027:

Conversions is like 99.9999999999999% of what this forums about. I'm pretty sure more people have converted Revo's and LST's and stuff than an actual electric trucks.

GUYS GUYS........don't get me wrong I live to convert.......heck three of my planes are converted slimmer kits...........I just don't want to stick a ton into two cars........I do like the Associated T4 but yeah to keep cost down I think the stampede/rustler angle is the way to go..............plus I have two outlets in town for parts for them..........Now I'll do mine with BL but what do you think the step son will say when I smoke the crap out of his brushed set-up..............HAHA.

Well.. the Pede/Rusty are super cheap and you got the hookup of batts... so it wouldn't be too bad with MM systems.

That's about $360 per truck plus your lipo packs and whatever upgrades you want... tires, etc... and a few bucks for a couple steel idler gears.

And you can sell off the stock electrics that come in the box...

I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems the electric-specific vehicles don't seem as solid or built as sturdily as the Nitro counterparts. My son has a Pede and it works well and all, but for a speedy and/or powerful R/C, a Nitro roller conversion seems to be the thing to do, despite the trials and tribulations of the conversion process. Of course, anything can be made bulletproof to handle high power with enough $$$...

I think the pede/rustler do have some weak spots.. but they are not too difficult or expenxive to fix.

I agree totally... the nitro versions are normally built tougher. A classic example.. probably the best one... was the HPI MT 1/10 truck. The original electric truck was a horribly fragile piece of crap. But then they redid the whole truck and came out with the nitro version. For some reason they never redesigned the electric, but dumped it instead.

My cousin still has a like new electric mt.... you almost have to treat it like a vintage r/c...

Yes, I think the Nitro's are built better because of the whole "Nitro is faster" mindset which means harder impacts, etc. However, I think as soon as companies start including brushless systems standard (Losi doesn't count though, since the SS4300 isn't exactly a bullet, and thats a race truck). But once brushless systems are included in stuff like the E-Maxx (or equivilant truck) and such, things will get much tougher.

However, the Stampede and Rusty are the most durable RTR electric trucks if I ever saw one.

Jam, I'd say you can go with a MM4600 oor 5700 on 3S lipo, while keeping the young one to 2S lipo with the 4600 or 5700 if you think he's up do it. This can also be controlled with timing, punch control, and start power. Later on, an easy speed increase will just be an upgrade to 3S.

However, if you do want a T4, a buddy of mine is selling a NIB Factory Team one for a (very) resonable price - I'm actually selling it for him, its in my closet right now lol. Drop me a PM if interested.

Can't forget the EPA adjustment on your radio...

I think alot of people forget that the new XL5 pedes are alot better then they used to be. The problem with getting any 10th scale electric other then pede/rusy...nothing else has the revo type slipper. And lets face it. That revo style slipper is the only slipper on the market that actually works for high powered brushless.

Also. I wouldn't waist your money on a MM motor. Get the speed controller and a lower kv motor. Something in the 10s or even 12s range. I've tried pretty much every brushless motor you can fit on a pede. Anything higher then 3100kv will just be a pain in the ars.

You don't think the 4600 on 6 cells is tame enough? I was planning on upgrading my son's pede with the MM and 4600 motor...

4600 is waaaaayy to high kv for a pede. Get the lowest kv S can sized motor Mike has. I'd recommend around 2400kv but I doubt you're lucky enough to find anything that low. If he still has any 2400kv Lehner Basic XL then snatch it up. Whatever you do, don't waist your money on a mm motor. Even the 4600 is WAY too high rpm. Believe it or not, that 2400kv will have more power, have MUCH better run times, and run cooler. With those higher kv motors its like they are lugging every where they go. Don't even worry about those lower kv motors not being fast enough. My pede has a 2600kv in it and I clocked it at 60mph with 3cell, and still had plenty of power in reserve. The common misconception that pedes need a 4000+kv motor to be fast is a fricken myth and it needs its own sticky on the subject. Hey, you should see my little bros pede go that has 1200kv lehner basic xl on 3cell. It's not exactly a bullet, but it'll beat the waller out of a stock pede. And go for over an hour between battery changes.

Hmm. I didn't bother to look at the tranny ratios so I just assumed the 4600 would be ok. The 4600 in the Jato stays cool so I figured it would work ok in the Pede. You know what they say about assuming...

No offense to the rc calculator, but if you run the ratios on it at that KV it'll look slow. I find the calculator to be great for comparison purposes though. according to the rc calculator a 2600kv motor with 86t-spure/30t-pinion should only do 50mph, 55 tops on 3s lipo. Just isn't the case though. I've done 60 and it still had power to spare. Any faster and the nose of the truck goes up.


I haven't had a jato, but I still find it hard to believe a mm4600 can push a Jato without getting hot. You must really drive your trucks softly. Or have super week batteries.

I agree to a certian extent, the nitro's do seem to be tougher toa certian extent. But there is an electric stadium that is as tough as any nitro, thats an associated T4. It has the GT diff and is all around stable with brushless power (except for on 3s:020: ) and the only parts i ever broke were my doing not from the power. I have a t4 RTR as well and run it for a year before i stepped up to the team, I never adjusted or rebuilt the diff in the time i run it. The T3 is good as well and in some cases may be better, the suspension seems to be tougher than the T4 and i have had one for four years and never rebuilt the diff. The reason i mentioned the diffs so much, is because i got friends who race XXX-T's and with stock (old style)ss5800's, they rebuild their diffs every 5 runs, because from the 6th to the 8th run, the diff will fail

No offense taken. If the actual speeds are greater than calculated, there MUST be something to account for it; kv value is higher than spec'd, tire balooning, voltage maintaining a high level, etc. The calculator is not magic; it's just kv * voltage / total reduction ratio * tire circumference / 1056. (the 1056 is simply a simplified conversion from in/sec to mph). It's just math. Other people have used it and it comes out pretty darn close.

The 4600 pushes the Jato around with ease and does not get hot. And it's geared tall to get 47mph out of a single speed tranny and only 2s. I don't think the temp has gotten above 140* (measured). As far as driving style; well, I don't mash the throttle from a standstill all the time - that just wears out my tires. :) Oh, and I'm using 2s2p emoli packs for batteries. Cutoff is set to 3.1v/cell and the LVC doesn't kick in until the pack dumps, so the battery voltage isn't sagging badly.

@crazy: OK, "most" of the Nitros are built tougher. ;)

Topic moved to general questions.

Like Brian said the calc program is simple math. You can do the same thing with pencil and paper.

With a known kv of the motor and the voltage of the battery, either measured or estimated realisticly... you can get very close to actual speeds achieved.

The only thing you can't easily account for is the losses in efficiency of the esc and motor. If you assume a 20% total loss that's probably close in most cases.

I'm guessing most of the time that the calculator is off it is due to guessing the voltage drop wrong, or the kv of the motor isn't exactly what it's rated. For example Castles motors are not exaclty as they are labled... 4600 is not 4600kv but it's close to that. And the voltage while at top speed can be tricky to guess...

i havent had my diff fail and i have about 25 runs with higher power then a 5800ss
i do however have the mf2.
my diff is still silky smooth.

I love the MF2,a 2wd electric stadium truck is hard to beat for fun,low maintenance and low running costs.i think they're perfect for someone who wants a fun basher but doesn't have a huge amount of time to put into RC,plus they're relatively easy to achieve very high speeds from.And they're pretty hard to break compared to a MT.And they handle so well,a good MF2 is a joy to drive(kit settings are pretty dialed since it's a Losi).

I do need to do regular diff rebuilds though,any mistake adjusting the diff when you're running a lot of power and the diff gear will melt,not just too loose,if it's too tight it will over heat when it diffs out.that said,diff gears cost pennies and it's a very quick job.I have a 7075 hard anodised diff gear for the genII tranny if i can figure out the diff ball size it uses.I always carry a spare complete tranny when i run anyway,and rebuild the other one later.once you get the knack of building the diff and adjusting the diff and slipper they last fairly long though.

here's mine after a winter overhaul, all ready for spring time:024:

If it's a 1/10 4wd there's not too many options(unless you want a buggy) other than the MT2 18SS,which are great but are tight for space,conversions are usually an excercise in packaging.

the schumacher havoc is 2wd 1/8 truck that has a bullet proof ball diff and transmission,i've always thought someone should convert one of those.

MF2 good basher? not as hard to break as MT? Low maintenance and running cost?

I don't know about all that. Sure not the experience I've had with my XXX-t trucks. In fact I find it to be the complete opposite. XXX-T are good for racing and racing only. They handle good if you know how to set them up right(hard to do). They are also very fragile and really not all that cheap to maintain compared to pede/rusty.

I kinda agree. The XXX's aren't very durable. I think they are rather easy to setup, though that was my first RC so I dunno...I got use to it pretty fast.

I was talking about 1/10 stadium trucks in general,rustler included,in comparison to MTs,it's just i happen to run that one so i gave it as an example.i find them extremely durable,owing to the fact they weigh next to nothing,they don't have the inertia to hurt themselves very often.drop a spider from a second floor window,then an elephant and see who comes off best.Durability is a prime concern in racing too.As for XXXTs only being good for racing,well i have a blast with mine anyway.I still think a 1/10 stadium truck is cheaper to run than and break less than a MT,and less time consuming,some more than others naturally,like you say the traxxas trucks since they have that bit of flex.having the planetary diff and not a ball diff should make for less maintenance too,can't go wrong with the rustler/pede for lot's of reasons,availability of parts,cost of running,maintenance,durability,fun etc.

Well here's the deal guys.....Mr1st (user name here) is offering me a 06' Rustler with stock TX and a MM 5700 with ESC.....I will not get into the details of the deal. But I think it's a really good deal. It should be a good little test bed and a great way to get the kid into a BL set up. The only thing that worries me is that he isn't responding to my request for his address.

Well after finding out where MR1st is located (Somewhere in the Middle east, he wouldn't be specific) And this has nothing to do with him personnaly it's just that At this time and point I will not ship or receive anything from that region of the world........and the same goes for most carriers. So the deal is off and my search continues.