Which Neu Motor
 

I've been going back and forth on a new ESC/Motor setup and can't quite make up my mind.

I finally decided to go with the MGM Compro 16016 controller. It shipped today. I'm currently running a Mamba Max/Feigao 7XL setup in my truggy, but would like a better motor. I was considering a Lehner 8T, but it seems that the Lehners are bordering on being vaporware these days.

What I think I'll get is a Neu motor. I just don't know which one. From what I understand, the Lehner 1940 is roughly comparable to an XL can motor. What in the Neu line is comparable to the 1940? Is it the 1512 line or 1515 line? I'd love to go with a 1512, simply because of the broader range of kv ratings (I'm considering the 1900kv). This is going to be going into my Muggy, which weighs in at just under 12lbs., with an 8Ah 4S battery pack. Will the 1512 be right for the job, or should I go with the 1515? If I go with the 1515, my choices will be narrowed to either the 1700kv model or the 2200kv model.

Thanks.

I would say the XL falls somehwere inbetween the 1512 and 1515. I say that because imo the 1512 is easily superior to the L size motors but I don't know that it's quite the "equal" of an XL. The 1515 is probably a notch above an XL. I guess the efficiency just lets the Neus do more work for their size....

You know my advice (I think?) is the 1515 1700kv... that's what I have in my truggy. I like the fact that it can be geared tall enough to be fast on 4s but also should be well suited to a 6s lipo setup on a lower gear.

That's not to say the 1512 can't do just as well... but I haven't actually run my 1512 in my truggy so I can't say. My guess is that it would be fine.

Once racing season is here in a few weeks I may try the 1512/truggy just to compare. If it works nearly as well then perhaps there is no real need to go to the bigger motor.

There was a guy here who ran a 1512 in a huge truck... it was a XTM Mammoth I think?? Anyway he was very happy with it.

I would say that the 1512 is easily equal in power to an XL motor. The higher quality wind and the solid core (which is what the coils are wrapped around) of the Neu make it quite the powerhouse. My 1512 2d works very well in my relatively heavy (~12lbs at a guess) buggy and it hardly heats up.

I think it was jhautz who used(uses?) a 1512 in a XTM XLB 1/7 buggy.

Brian, I doubt your buggy is 12lbs.

Well, it sure feels heavy. And I do have a lot of "material" on there. I would say it's equal or heavier than my loaded Revo and that is 11lbs with batts.

A nitro Hyper 8 might weigh 8-9lbs., and yours probably weighs less than that without batteries. Your batteries weigh at or under two pounds. Weigh it, and we shall see :).

I guess I'm gonna have to lug everything to work to use the shipping scale. If it's under 12 lbs, I'll be surprised.

You guys are really making me lean toward the 1512. I know that Glass likes the low kv motors, but I really don't like using the larger pinions. Those over 14T. It may just be my imagination, but it seems that motors loose some of their zip when running really large pinions, like 16T and over.

I'm really leaning toward the 1512 1900kv motor. That should put me somewhere in between an 8XL and a 7XL. I'm looking for that range because there are times when I feel that the 7XL is just too much, but when I tried the 8XL there were times when I felt that it just wasn't quite enough. Again, maybe it's just my imagination.

Now...I'm looking at the 1900 kv motor because the specs say that it's more efficient than the 2000 kv motor. Am I right? I'm figuring that the 1900 should give me better runtime with less heat at the sacrifice of a negligible amount of power. If I'm not right about this, I'll just think more of the 2000kv motor. Hey, all things being equal, I'll take all that I can get. The 2600 is just too much to even consider.

If I do wind up going with the 1515, it'll have to be the 2200 kv model. I think the 1700 kv motor will leave me wanting more.

I just realized that if the 1512 doesn't get it in my truggy, I could always just put it into my buggy and get the 1515 later.

I hate making decisions like this.

I went and found that thread on the XLB. It turns out that it only weighed around 10lbs. My Muggy goes just under 12 and I'll only be running 4S. How does the Compro 16016 handle 5S?

I'd really like to go with the 1512.

I have the 1512/2.5D and the 1515/2.5D and I actually prefer the 1512. Its snappier and feels more nimble. Plenty of power too. If you ask for my vote betwen those 2 motors its the 2000kv 1512.

Ive run them both in the XLB, my revo and my 1/8 buggy. The 1512 is the better motor in all of them IMO.

I run them on 5s and there are no heat problems with either motor so depending on what you are planning to do I'd say you could easily go for the 2200kv 1515 and have no issue with heat on 4s (probably even 5s for that matter). They are cool running motors.

I think you are right about the 1700kv motor leaving you wanting on 4s. It leaves me wanting somewhat on 5s. EDIT:Of course I think there might be something wrong with me. :p

jhautz, just the man I was looking for. As I said, I'm going to be putting this into my Muggy and it comes in a just under 12 pounds. I'd really like to go with the 1512 2.5D or 1.5Y. The 1000 rpm/v should make that much of a difference.

The 1515 was my knee jerk choice, but I don't want more motor than I need. I'll just wind up with more of a current draw than I have to live with.

So...are you saying that on 4S, I should go with the 1515 2200kv motor? Or do you think that the 1512 2000kv motor will do nicely on 4S. I do like fast, but want a setup that I can race on the track too. Perhaps the 1512 1900 or 2000kv motor with 4S for the track and then I can run it on 5S when I want to go fast.

Thanks for all of the input guys.

Oh, by the looks of the video, you (jhautz) like to run your cars hard too. How did that truerc pack hold up under stress? Did it get hot?

More Motor than you need.... Your Funny!:D All of these are more motor than you need. Thats the Point!!!

No heat issues with the TrueRC Lipos. They are pretty solid for the money. Yes you can get better performance from other packs, but great bang for the buck. Just make sure you get a big enough pack so that the 12C is enough current. 8000mah would be the minimum I would go for in TrueRC.

If I was doing the choosing, I would go with the bigger higher KV motor. Run times might be a little lower, but it would really cheese me off of I built a whole truck around the BL system and then was diapointed with the power. If its too much for the occational time you take it to a track. Gear it down. The motor will handle it. Plus it sounds like your truck is on the heavier side.

OK, so the 1515/1Y it is. That was what I wanted in the first place. As they say, you should always go with your first instinct. LOL

i have 1512/2.5d (2000kv) on 16 cells and my 12lbs maxx is an instant rocket. Just cant imagine having more torque :) but for 4S 1515 2200kv is prolly better for racing. but get good tires :) had to move to big joes as no other could get a good grip with all the power Neu has :)

I'm having another issue with maxamps and I'm not getting my battery, so this brings more questions to mind.

If the 1515 line of motors are 1500 watt motors, then on 4S the maximum constant current draw on 4S will be about 107A, right? If this is true, then the maximum constant current draw at 5S will be about 85A. This is assuming 3.5v under load and a motor turning about 30K rpm.

If this is right, then on 4S, I'd need a pretty "good" pack to keep up, but on 5S, I don't need such a hot pack to keep up. If this is the case, I could just run the 1515/2.5D on a truerc 5S 8Ah pack (for A LOT less than a maxamps 4S 8Ah pack).

If I decide to go with a 1512, it should be even better yet, because that should draw even less current.

Please tell me I'm right. LOL. If this is alright, I'll make the switch to 5S. The truerc 5S packs are only like a couple of mm taller than the maxamps 4S packs. The truerc packs are just a bit wider and longer, which isn't a problem.

Now I need to figure out what I'm going to be doing with these brand new Kokam 4S packs that I just bought.

Don't get too hung up on the power ratings. The rating simply means it can handle 1500 watts (~2HP), but will only pull this kind of power in bursts. Just looks at most everyone's eagletree discharge graphs. 100-120A bursts are common, but the average is far less. Unless you plan on pulling a trailer where the motor will be working every step of the way, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

By the way, a motor is not a "constant power" load, so you can't assume it will pull the right amount of current to equal its rated power. If a motor will draw 107A @ 4s, it will draw more as 5s (133.75A using your 3.5v/cell example). If you want to keep the amperage at ~107A but use 5s instead, go up one wind rating (like a 2.5d instead of a 2d).

BrianG,

Man, you're up late. I'm a chronic insomniac.

What I meant was this. If I am running "X" motor on 4S to attain 30,000 rpm, then running motor "y" (a higher turn motor) on 5S to attain 30,000 rpm should result in less current draw, while doing the same work. Is this right?

I wasn't talking about going from 4S to 5S on the same motor and expecting the current draw to go down. If I stay with 4S, I'll probably go with the 2200kv motor. If I go with 5S, I'll probably go with the 1700kv motor (or maybe even a higher wind). Although both the 2200 on 4S and the 1700 on 5S will turn about the same rpms, shouldn't the 1700 on 5S draw less current?

It figures, Mike is out of stock on the 2.5d.

But what he was saying was correct brian. He could run the 2200kv motor on 4s or the 1700kv motor on 5s. Similar power.... Lower Amp draw.


EDIT: Damn! You got 2 posts in in the time it took me to get one up.

Yes. This is the appeal of higher voltage. Same power, less current. Less current, Less heat. (very general statement, but pretty much accurate)

Uh oh, another insomniac. LOL

It's a cryin' shame, but I couldn't sleep with this stuff running though my mind. I'm still going back and forth with myself on the 1515 vs. 1512 issue.

I really like the smaller can motors. I have an 8L in my buggy right now because I love the zip. I didn't like it at first, because due to inexperience, I didn't have it geared right. Now, it flies. Really flies. If I can get the same effect with my truggy, without stressing the motor and save about $50 at the same time, I'd be a happy camper.

I just hope that the Compro will do well on 5S. I've just had it with all of this expensive battery crap. I just ordered a 5S 8Ah pack from truerc for the same price that 4 bare 10Ah cells cost me from maxamps and have you seen the latest price on the 4S2P 8Ah pack? For that price, I'd rather spend a bit more and get the flightpower 4900 that will actually do 20C without breaking a sweat.

And hey, doesn't less current draw for a given capacity also mean more runtime? Wait, this can't be right. Running the 1700kv motor on 5S will give better runtime than running the 2200kv motor on 4S? It's late, and I can't think anymore. Now I'm just rambling.

Lower amp draw means longer run time, so yes thats correct.

If you think about it the potenetial energy on a 18.5V 8000mah pack is higher than in a 14.8V 8000Mah pack so you should be able to generate the same amount of power for a longer period of time.

OK, I thought you were using the wattage to determine current based on different voltages using the same motor. Just a misunderstanding. :)

If you run 4Ah packs, but one setup uses a higher voltage and higher wind motor, you could get better runtime. It's all about how much current is drawn over time.

Yeah, I'm up late. I couldn't sleep so I decided to go to work. So, I post here between doing some tasks that I have to wait for anyway. It's gonna be a looong day though: up since ~7AM yesterday, and won't be going to bed until sometime tonight. Looks like I'll be living on caffeine today. The track at my LHS was looking somewhat drivable, so I might try to leave a little early and hit the track with my Hyper 8.

Well, I'm making the shift to 5S. With the truerc packs being the price that they are, it is worth getting controllers that can handle 5S.

jhautz, I saw the way you drive and I know that you like your stuff fast; so if you aren't having problems with the truerc packs, I don't think that I should either.

It's just unfortunate that I just got a couple of 4S 4.8Ah Kokam packs. I suppose that I could try to sell them. They are too tall for my buggy, and there isn't enough runtime for my son to run them in the MGT. Maybe I could just rig them in parallel for the MGT. Heaven knows there's enough room for them on that beast.

Just a heads up on the packs... in hte past the truerc and maxamps cells have been the "same" cells from the same mfg. I don't know what has changed with the truerc cells lately when maxamps updated thier cells. I would assume truercs are similar.. the latest generation.

Just something to consider.

GD, do you mean that in a good way or a bad way? I'm just figuring that if I go with the 5S setup with a lower kv motor, I'll draw fewer amps, so the quality/performance of the pack won't matter as much. Besides, the 8Ah packs that I've gotten from maxamps have worked out well. The 4Ah cells are pretty good. If truerc is using those same cells, I'll be more than satisfied.

Right now I don't think any of the True RC and Maxamps cells are the same (or at least anything larger than 2100mah...).

In any case, I think that the truerc packs are at least good 10C packs that will do 15C bursts. If that's right, I don't see any problems running a 1700 or so kv motor on 5S with these packs. This should be a relavtively mild setup in terms of current draw.

Right now, I'm thinking I'll run my 8XL while I decide on whether to get the 1515/2.5D or the 1512/1.5Y.

I got an email from Mike and his opinion was that the 1512 will blow away an 8XL in terms of performance, but he said he'd go with the 1515. I like the performance of my Muggy on the 8XL and the 7XL. If the 1512 will surpass those, the 1515 will be overkill for me.

As it is, my truck weight just under 12lbs. With the 5S pack, it will probably go to 12lbs; but I still have some upgrading to do in terms of getting rid of some metal in favor of carbon fiber.

i've run 2 TrueRC's 5s 4000mah packs in parallel, with a 1512 2.5D, in my 1/8 onroad, and the packs have worked beautifully. my LSP will be running in about a week, and I'll try the 1512 in it, and see how it runs, and then decide if i want a different motor.

What I mean is... there seems to be talk here lately suggesting that the truerc cells are better than maxamps. I'm suggesting that this is very unlikely.

As of 6 months ago they were indeed the same cells... (4000mah ones and probably the 3000s too) The 4000s were slightly different dimensions to make them 'different' imo. And I'm not the only one to say that.

Maxamps has updated most of their product line to the new "HV" cell with copper + tab. I tend to think it's the same cell as before but with the new tab... and maybe a tweak from the mfg. Cells continue to improve....

Truerc's product is unchanged I believe. I would think the mfg has also made improvements but no "new and improved" claims have been made.

So I don't see how the truerc are now better?? I think they are very much a similar product, as they have been.

Maybe everything has changed in recent months... but this is what I believe right now.

GD,

I dont think anyone was sugesting that the TrueRC cells were "better." Only that they were good enough. I would go as far as to say they are good enough in a 8000mah format. I would NOT sugest the TrueRc cells/packs in the 4000mah format, as I dont feel that they would be able to sustain the current needed in that configuration.

I agree with your assesment thath the Max Amps cells have been updated, and the TrueRc have remained the same. At least as far as what is reported.

Oh, my point was only that the truerc packs are going to be "good enough," and that the truerc packs were inexpensive. Bang for the buck and all that. I just ordered a 5S2P 8Ah pack and it came to just over $200 with shipping.