MGM Compro 16016 - NEED HELP
 

Hey guys,

After having had problems with the MM controllers in my heavy truggy, I decided to get a 16016. Well, the experience so far has been less than satisfiying.

I read through the documentation and programming hasn't been a problem. I find the procedure to be very straight forward, but I am having problems.

First, I programmed it for car mode with reverse. This should have been the default profile anyway. When I'm moving at greater than 5 mph or so and I hit the brakes, the brakes are applied as they should be. If I pump the brakes, it goes straight into reverse on the second hit of the brakes. When I am moving at a slow speed, just rolling, and I hit the brakes, it goes directly into reverse. What's up with this? Did I miss something in the programming?

Second, after first programming the Compro, when I hit full throttle it would cut out until I let off of the throttle and then get back on it again. If I try to go to full throttle again, it cuts out again. I re-programmed it and it isn't doing that any longer, but the performance is less than stellar.

Not that I just want to go around doing wheelies or anything, but my Muggy used to wheelie on demand. I can't get it to lift the front tires now. Acceleration is VERY sluggish. I set the delay time to its minimum and it still feels very sluggish to me.

Maybe I misinterpreted something in the instruction manual, if you want to call it that. LOL. Anyway, what procedure should I follow in programming this thing? Did I get a bad controller?

I'd appreciate any help.

Thanks.

Now you're making me worry ALOT.....I have a MGM32/120 and I'm very afraid of it's performance.

How about using the car one way program?( shut down the reverse).

I actually had this same problem when I was doing speed runs with my Rustler (and was using the MGM). For this reason, I never have reverse enabled on the MGM. Besides, running over to the truck never hurt :).

How do you have the cutoff set? If you have it set on hard cutoff (or motor cut, or whatever it's called), it could be that the battery's voltage is sagging, causing the LVC to kick in. The MM doesn't use a hard cutoff, but a soft cutoff (decreases motor RPM). If you set the MGM to a soft cutoff (motor RPM limit, or whatever it's called), that might fix it. You might also want to try playing around with the acceleration settings.

I think it's too soon to tell if you got a bad controller. Try some of these things, and then we can move on from there.

Where are you at with your gearing?

With the braking, I thought that they fixed that crap. Why the hell would it go into reverse while the vehicle is still moving forward? That's stupid. Man, I really thought that I had read that MGM fixed that reverse thing. If I had known that it was still doing that, I wouldn't have ordered it. Ah, heck. Been making a bunch of bad decisions lately.

With the acceleration thing, the LVC is the first thing I thought of, so I set the LVC to both nimh and 3S lipo (running 4S). Still the same thing. I also set the "lag" time on acceleration to the minimum. It's still sluggish.

Man, I never thought I'd say this, but nitro NEVER gave me this much trouble. All of the trouble was always keeping up with maintenance.

I'll keep messig around with it and see.

What about that auto programming? I didn't see anything in the manual about training the esc to the radio.

At this point, living with the MM and the cogging is almost appealing. At least it was haulin' butt with the MM.

Ahhh, it's just been a long day with the in-laws.

Gearing is 9/46.

On the MGM the problem with the brakes was that when you were coasting the brakes would apply for a second. Making jumps slowing down interesting. You would have to hold the throttle in the air. I think you just need to program a different reverse type.

One thing I noticed when I went from the MM to the Quark was that I had to gear down because of the fact that more juice is getting through. That may be why it feels sluggish and you may be in fact thermaling when you nail the throttle. I hate to say it beacuse I know your at 9/46 and it gets harder to gear down any more, but there are a few gearing options left. Another option is a lower kv motor. The 7xl is a hot motor for a big truck. You don't need speed motor you need a torque motor!

I just went and put the stock 40 series tires on my Muggy and took it out. I couldn't get it to do anything without it cutting off. It was running ok with the MT tires though. I suppose that I traded one set of problems for another set. I don't know that I'm thermalling, but I think that I may be hitting the current limiter. I think that things will clear up when I go to 5S with a lower kv motor. I do have an 8XL and will try that tomorrow.

If all else fails, I'll just go back to the MM and deal with the cogging. At least at 9/46, the cogging was almost all gone. The sad thing is that I ordered a big 5S pack in anticipation of the MGM cure to my woes. LOL. I just need to work this out.

Although Schulze has a very bad reputation around here, it's working like a charm for me. I still did not try out the MGM( Mike did say that the braking/reverse problem has been solved, but....), so I can't judge it, yet. Although I'm starting to see a dark future....O'God!!

This is too bad... looks like the Quark would be much better. It seems to work very well, without funky stuff like this.

btw, that 5s pack might just work with the MM too... but you might want to drop the motor kv a notch or two. 5s on 9XL should cure much of the problem you had before, if the MM won't blow a gasket on 5s.

Sucks to hear this... I don't have any advice for you on the MGM. I have never used one. But I can say the problems you are having I have never run into. I think you are just having a run of bad luck.

I have to say that the BK controllers just run the way they are supposed to. They lack some of the nice bells and whistles and the built in LVC, but the bottom line is they just work when paired with a Lehner of Feigao based motor. No complication of changing a bunch of settings and 12020 I have just ahndles the power. Stuff that would overhet the Quark just runs on the BK. Its one of the oldest designs, but still soild as they get IMO. There is something to be said for simplicity.

Well, I put the 8XL on the Compro. I got it to run without shutting down. I suppose its running the way it's supposed to and it sucks. This controller is a POS. I can see how someone might think it's a good controller, if they've never had anything smooth. This compro (the one I have anyway) isn't half the controller the Mamba Max is.

I got it out on the track today with the 8XL. I programmed it and turned on free wheeling. It still drags when you let off of the throttle without going to neutral. I didn't really notice it, except that I was getting a clacking from the motor, and now realize it was the braking that was hitting so hard. I hit the big triple on the track and when I let off of the throttle, the truck nose dived bad. It land with the truck at a 90 degree angle to the ground. I now have a nice bent chassis. I'll try to straighten it later.

I guess I'll email Mike about the controller. This can't be the way it's supposed to be.

Wow, sorry to hear about your trouble! I can't imagine a 7XL pulling too much current for a 160A controller. Unfortunately, I've never dealt with anything but BK Warrior (good, reliable, but short on programming), MM (good all around besides the Neu issues), and the Quark (my favorite despite the price; smooth with any motor, runs cool with a little heatsinking work - too bad it doesn't do 6s like it's supposed to).

Don't despair and go back to Nitro! Once you get the setup alive and working, you will be extremely pleased. It's just too bad it's so expensive to try all kinds of different things...

I sent an email to Mike. I don't know what he's going to say, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that there is nothing wrong with this esc. I mean, I just got it. I'm hoping that he'll let me exchange it for a Quark, like I should have gotten in the first place. If he won't I suppose I'll send it back to MGM and get on the waiting line. If this is the way the controller is supposed to be, it's gonna go cheap, if I can keep myself from stomping on it.

As for the 7XL, I figured that the 160A controller wouldn't have any problems with it. I mean, the MM ran it and the only thing I had to watch was the cogging. There has got to be something wrong with this controller.

Well, good luck with whatever happens. Either there is something wrong with that controller, or some odd setting causing your problems.

Even if you do get a Quark, you'll still have to heatsink it so it doesn't get too hot.

I just had a good nap and am feeling better. LOL.

I put the MM/8XL running 12/46 gearing with the truggy tires. Instead of having start power turned all the way down, I turned it all the way up and reduced timing to lowest. Cogging is minimal and only sometimes.

Assuming that the Compro is a "better" controller than the MM, in terms of capability, I should be able to start with this gearing and tune for it. I'm going to go through all setting again. If I still can't get it to free wheel, it's going back, because that's the biggest issue for me. I can live without reverse, until I can afford a Quark, which is what I should have gotten in the first place.

Heatsinking the Quark isn't a problem for me since my esc rides on an aluminum pedestal which is bolted to the chassis, so in essense, my whole chassis is a heat sink. With a setup like this, I probably won't have heat problems.

I am still learning this stuff, but... so if I put the ESC towards the center of my buggy on the aluminum chassis (not on plastic mud guards), it will act as a heat sink, and will run cooler than if it were on plastic?

The Quark really doesn't need much. I usually use a 1/16" or 1/8" thick piece of aluminum with a little extra heatsinking on it. The case is all metal, but it's fairly thin and there isn't much surface area on the few and shallow fins. All in all, it probably has as much surface area as a MM heatsink, maybe less.

Also, be aware that the FETs are internally secured by a ~0.5mm thick thermal pad. After a while of running, the "sticky stuff" may let go. One user had that happen and the ESC thermaled quickly (of course). Once my ESCs are out of warranty, I take them apart and replace that sticky pad with thermal epoxy and it cools much better and faster. But since the thermal epoxy is permanent, it aint coming apart again.

No matter what ESC you get, there is always a chance that something will go wrong. There doesn't seem to be an ESC on the market that meets all needs - a holy grail if you will.

Yes. Plastic is a very poor conductor of heat. Or you could leave it where it is and attach an aluminum angle to the underside of the Quark and them attach a heatsink to the other part of the angle - similar to what I did on my Revo (see link in sig for pics).

I think you did not get the updated version of the MGM, AAngel.
The new MGMs have no freewheeling program like the older ones.

Captain,

You've got to be kidding! I just got this thing. I mean like yesterday. I got it from Mike. How could I have gotten one of the older ones? The sticker on the controller says that it is version 2.32, which I believe is the latest version.

I just got an email telling me that I need to complete the auto programming before any other settings will take effect. Is that right? How do I do the auto programming?

Am I to understand that the reverse problem and free wheeling problem were indeed fixed, but I just got an older version? I'm gonna email Mike back again and see. His last email didn't mention anything about my getting an older version. He only told me that the reverse problem is there to stay and that I had to lock out reverse. As for the drag brake and free wheeling, I'd have to do the auto programming and then program my other options.

Exactly what is it that I have to do to "auto program" the controller. Do I drive it, or do I just pick the truck up off of the ground, hit full throttle and brake and then turn it off?

The instructions only say that auto programming is recommended, and says nothing about HAVING to auto program.

Oh, about the heat sinking. Aluminum is a good conductor of heat. When you run a fan on a heat sink, the purpose is to help the sink dissipate the heat. Unfortunately air is NOT a good heat conductor. The best way to get the heat away from the controller is to use a big heat sink. The biggest heat sink available on an RC car is the chassis. Lots of mass and surface area. If you have the space to mount the Quark on the chassis, you'll likely not even need a fan on it. That's just what I think anyway.

On my vehicles, I turned aluminum standoffs that bolt to the existing engine mount holes. I then used a 1/8" thick piece of aluminum and bolted that to the standoffs. The whole thermal pathway is made of aluminum and that stuff moves some heat. Just make sure that you use some quality thermal grease, like arctic alumina and the secure the esc to your sink (whatever it is). I say to secure it, because the thermal grease will "set" and get really thick. If the esc moves around after the grease has set, it will become less effective.

Take a look at this short video on how to program the quark. I think this may help you:
http://www.quarkbrushless.com/media.htm
Click on "Car Set up Video".

How is programming the Quark going to help me? I'll watch it anyway.

I just thought Mike sent you one of the older ones.

That's really bad!!!

Captain, it sounds like I got one of the older ones, although mine has a 2.32 sticker on it.

AAngel, I just purchased a neu 1515 1y and 16016 controller from mike too. I didn't get to use mine for more then 45 seconds. The BEC burned up on mine and destroyed both my servo's as well. Fortunatly the reciever is ok. I converted my t-maxx to 4s lipo with the said controller and motor. I had a hitec hs-945 servo for steering, and a traxxas 2055 servo for brakes. The truck never made it to second gear because it was having cut off problems like you were experiencing, which was somewhat surprising since i have 2 2s2p 6000mah lipo's in series to the controller.

The esc still works, but will not seem to supply power to the reciever to make other servo's work. I was hoping mike might exchange this for me (waiting to hear from him) but if he doesn't, i'll probably try to get a UBEC and replace the servo's and see what happens.

I have an MGM 8012 on my touring car with one of the mamba 540 brushless motors and am pretty pleased with it. It was because of my experience with the MGM i decided to get another.

EDIT: my 16016 is ver 2.32 also

Is the 8012 of the old or new version?

the 8012 is a much older version. its about 2 years old. it was the version right before they came out with usb programming support

I see.

AAngel,

How did you get the feeling that your esc might be of an older version?
Did you receive some info from Mike?

Ok i decided to do some more testing with my 16016 that i thought for sure was no good. I just supplied 10 volts through an external power supply and it powered a known working servo just fine. What do you think caused it to burn out the 2 servo's on the truck though? I'm going to hook it back up and eventually get a UBEC and run a battery pack for now with the BEC on the controller disabbled

Two servos under load will draw far more current than one turning nothing. IMO, until ESCs start integrating switching BECs, it's a good idea to run a UBEC on anything over 7-8 cells, especially when running multiple servos.

I really don't know why it fried the servos though. Usually, when a linear regulator is overloaded, it shuts down. Some receivers can take higher voltages than most servos. Spektrum receivers, for instance, can take 9.6v according to the manufacturer (IIRC).

I also thought that that the integrated BEC was fused and would protect against short or near short circuit (over loaded). I'm assuming something went wrong and it supplied the servo's with well over 5v's.

I'm waiting on some new servo's from tower, i guess i better order the UBEC from mike because the external battery pack looks really ugly hangin off the front shock tower :-)

I've never seen a fuse anywhere; the regulator ICs usually use some type of current-limiting circuit. But, if the input voltage is too high and/or current draw is too much too fast, it could malfunction I guess. Maybe it was a thermal issue. Some of it depends on the regulator used. Is it an IC rated for 3A, or a cheaper/smaller/easier obtained regulator with a simple pass transistor? Without taking it apart it is hard to tell exactly what happened and why.

I just got an email from Mike (the guy is tireless!). He says that he sent in all of his stock over a year ago for the upgrades, so even if I got one of the old stock, it has been upgraded.

He also had some more advise on setup, but unbeknownst to him, I've already tried it. My esc is FUBAR.

The Compro is supposed to have an IC that can pump out 4A at 5V. I didn't take a chance and ran a bec from the get go.

I wonder if that could be affecting the programming.

Hmmm.... my Mtroniks has bad glitchy/coggy crap happen when I use a ubec with it. Maybe that is part of the problem....

Maybe the internal BEC needs a load? How about putting a 220 ohm resistor across the internal BEC and see how it reacts? That will draw ~23mA, which isn't enought to heat it up, but enough to load it a little. Then, still use a UBEC...

I need to contact Mtroniks and ask them why it doesn't like bypassing the internal bec and see what they say about a fix...

The funny thing is that I smoked it before and it was the bec that was the weak link...

I actually burnt out the BEC chip in my MGM Compro 12012. It was being fed by 16v, and it just overheated, and burnt out. It smoked a servo and damaged the receiver, because it now puts out the full battery votltage to the receiver. Since this happened, I've been using an external receiver/servo power source, and the MGM has been working just fine.