Dead Mamba Max ESC?
 

Hey guys,

I've been running my Muggy conversion with a MM/8XL combo on 5S. Today, without even thinking about it, I bought a set of 40 series Mashers. I just thought they looked cool and mounted them up. I didn't realize how much bigger they were until I got them on the truck. I geared 9/46 and it ran fine. No cogging or anything. Tonight, just to see, I put on a 10T pinion and it cogged a little. At one point, I wasn't paying enough attention and it cogged for a couple of seconds and then nothing. And I do mean nothing. No smoke and no workie. I'm guessing that the cog sent too much current though the esc and that in conjunction with the over voltage fried it pretty quick. I'd say that it was running on the ragged edge.

This thing is that it doesn't smell burnt and I didn't see any smoke. I pulled it off of the truck and plugged it into my computer and it was recognized and I was able to program it. It just won't power on.

Anyone have any idea what could be the problem? I'd just like to know if it might be something that I can fix myself.

Thanks.

The computer simply talks to the brains part. The power delivery part is seperate. You might have actually burned an FET or maybe one of the PCB traces.

One that I killed still worked but worked bad... there was one other that I killed... IIRC it was dead dead like yours?? :evil:

Have you tried another motor?

I didn't try another motor, I just threw in another MM. I guess I'll have to try to pop the heatsink off to see if I can see what fried. On the other hand, for $50, Castle will fix it. I just thought that someone may have run across the same thing and was able to fix it easily.

Because it didn't smoke/burn (and I assume doesn't smell bad) and it totally doesn't work, yet is recognized by the PC, I would look closely at the circuit traces - especially the power and/or ground.

Good luck on pulling off the heatsink without destroying the FETs. Try freezing the ESC first - I find that helps weaken the bond. Some people have said that heat works.

Honestly, for $50, I'd just send it in...

Brian,

I almost can't resist the learning experience. If it is just a burnt trace, that shouldn't be too difficult to repair, if my electronics vocabulary isn't letting me down I think I know what you mean.

I've used Arctic alumina a lot when potting electronics for portable applications. You wouldn't believe how soft it gets at around 170*. You can actually pick at it with a dental pick and remove it. 170* shouldn't hurt anything on the MM either. I feel that mine should come off since I had to epoxy the heatsink back on and I used AA to do that. Of course, as you said, the smart thing to do would be to send it to Castle.

I agree...if it is fubarred they will probably replace it with one that has been reconditioned like new.

Not good news, I just bought a MM to run on 5s and a 10xl in a maxx!!! lol

We have to remember that the MM is intended for lighter 1/10 scale applications. The fact that it can be used in heavier vehicles, on 5s, etc should be considered an unintended benefit and "at your own risk" IMO. We're just so cheap that we only want to pay $140 for an ESC and wonder why we have problems when we try to shoe-horn it into an application it obviously wasn't desinged for. :)

Brian,

I do have to keep reminding myself of the MMs intended purpose, but they seem to perform so well. Until now, anyway.

I have, I think, killed another MM. I was running on 5S with my 8XL with 10/46 gearing with bowtie mtr tires. I was just running the track. I hit the big triple and over shot it a bit, so the truck landed flat on the other side, rather than hitting the down ramp. When I went to hit the throttle, nothing. Just the lights blinking. I unplugged it and plugged it back in to reset it, and still, nothing. I was really taking it easy too. Motor, battery, and esc were all cool. Not even warm.

Does anyone have a clue as to what the blinking lights mean? I thought it meant that the radio wasn't connected. I checked the continuity in the lead wires with my fluke and they are fine. The radio is fine. The motor is fine.

If I can't get this one back up and running, I think I'm gonna hang it up for a while until I can invest in some decent equipment. Maybe the Teken R1MT will be out by then.

Why not get a Quark???

Hmm, you might have damaged the PCB or something with the impact, although you'd think the MM would be a little more durable than that. I'd check for any cracks near where the throttle cable is soldered on. I did notice that the edge of the external case is pretty close to the PCB and on a hard impact, the force could have done something to the PCB in that area. Also, I'd remove the MM from the case and inspect elsewhere...

neweuser,

Yeah, what can I say. I'm an idiot. I was looking at the "better" controllers and did a lot of research. Just going by the specs, I chose to go with the 16016 Compro. That was a nightmare. I have another thread discussing that. Anyway, I now have five MMs and the Compro. The Compro is on its way back to Mike, so that he can check it out to make sure that I didn't screw something up in the programming, then after that, I have to wait for it to make the trip to the Czech Rep for repair. I'm pretty confident that it wasn't me screwing up the programming. Anyway, I'd be pretty hard pressed to convince myself to spend another ~$300 to get another controller. I'm just kind of aggravated with the whole thing right now, escpecially since I have to spend $100 to get my MMs fixed.

Brian,

I went over the whole thing, well, the parts of the pcbs that are exposed anyway, with a magnifying glass and can't see anything. No cracks, chips, or anything.

I just wish I knew what the blinking lights means. That might point me in the right direction. I tried call Castle, but got no answer, as has been par with Castle lately.

You seem to have the worst luck with stuff! I think if I had half the ESC problems you have, I'd have found another hobby! ;)

Oh, believe me. A buddy of mine sold all of his car/truck stuff and went and bought a TRex 450. He went from having nothing associated with helicopters to having everything he needed (less batteries and charger) for under $800. That's unbelievable to me considering what my Compro, JR Z9000T, and three Feigaos cost, not to mention everything else.

I'm really at a point where I have to take a step back and re-assess. The whole thing with the Compro almost put me over the top. This whole "dealing with warranty" thing is new to me. When I was running nitro, I was able to get everything at my LHS. In my years of running nitro and brushed motors, I only remember having gotten a defective unit twice and it was no big deal. I just took it back to my LHS and they gave me another one. All of this large scale electric stuff is so specialized that you have to do business on the net, where even the best of service still leaves you waiting.

Don't get me wrong, I've done about 95% of my buying from Mike and he's been great to deal with. I'll buy from him, even when I could get something cheaper someplace else, just because I feel like I'm supporting my LHS when I buy from him. Where would we be without Mike? Still in all, I have made some bad decisions with regard to my choice of product by either buying the wrong thing, or using equipment out side of it's specified purpose. In any case, it's starting to get the best of me. Now, I have all of these vehicles that have been converted to electric and I can't even sell 'em, because they are, by there nature, experimental and I'd have to support them for whoever bought them. I'm just not prepared to go that far.

I'm not going to buy another esc right now. I already own the Compro, although I haven't really been able to run it yet. One day, my Compro will show up on my doorstep and perhaps I'll feel compelled to drop it into a truck and get back into it.

As far as supporting any vehicles you sell, just sell them "as-is" with all the electronic documentation and you'll be all set.

It would be discouraging to have that many problems! Luckily, I haven't had any problems with any motors/controllers yet :knocks on wood:. Then again, I tend to over-engineer things for longevity/durability in mind.

That MGM should work just fine once you get a working unit.

Since you seem to have such bad luck, I would suggest starting with the slowest/easiest settings and work up from there checking temps and such. Just my $0.02.

We off-road guys tend to be hard on our equipment since we jump/crash our vehicles. Plus, the power requirements seems "peaky" with high current pulses even though the average current is relatively low. This can be hard on ESCs and batteries.

Brian,

Believe it or not, I tend to like to over engineer things myself. I also like to avoid the hotter setups, just because I'd rather have something dependable than a bit faster. All in all, my biggest problems have been with controllers. Obviously, the MM is doing fine in the light buggy on 4S, but the MM also leaves something to be desired in the truck arena.

I'm not having any problems with my mounts, gears, batteries, etc.

Anyway, what are you running? It seems to be working for you.

I'm going to pull another MM and wire it up with 12 gauge and for the bec and get my neglected buggy up to par. I'll just stick with that for a while, until I can get my Muggy back up and in its right form.

So far, I have four BL conversions (in my sig).

Revo: 10XL, Quark 125, 14xGP3300 cells, tranny locked into 2nd gear, spur=40T, pinion=14T, ~11lbs. Motor does get warm after several runs, but OK.

Jato: MM 4600 & ESC, 2s2p emoli cells, single speed conversion, spur=56t, pinion=24t (and 22t), ~4.75lbs. Stays surprisingly cool despite tall gearing.

Hyper 8: Neu 2d, Quark 125, 2x 2s2p 8Ah Maxamps cells, spur=46t, pinion=16t. yes, it's geared high for the motor (kv=2600), but the motor was shipped wrong. Still works well though.

CRT.5: MM 4600 & ESC, 2s 5Ah maxamps cells, spur=46, pinion=16t. Haven't run this much, but plan to go to the track after work today to play. :)

So, another Quark success story, eh. Figures. I'm really hoping that the Compro will work out in the end. I've heard some good things about it. I just haven't seen the good things myself.

Like you said, what we are doing is very experimental. Sensorless technology is still rather new. We are pushing the limits of it by using these ESCs where we do. In other industries, startup torque isn't usually an issue, since the motors would be used for constant spinning.

If you want stable technology, then you'd have to look toward sensored ESCs. Sensored ESCs are not nearly as technologically advanced as sensorless (since they use a simple hall effect sensor to tell the ESC where the rotor is). Sensorless is definitely a better technology, but it needs to have "bugs" worked out to be as reliable as we wish it would be.

And really, isn't the Quark really meant for 1/10th scale applications like the MM? I thought I read here that someone talked to their tech support and was told that. Makes sense since both ESCs use the same FETs and even the same number of them IIRC...

Are the BK Warriors considered MT-class ESCs? How about the MGMs? Although, both of those do have their limitations. IMO, the best ESCs out right now are the MM and the Quarks; the MM for their programmability and current handling for its small size, and the Quark for its ultra smoothness.

I'm a bit curious if the MM would benefit from higher capacitance/voltage caps. If I remember correctly, the Quark does have that over the MM...

Just to throw it out there, I have killed two MMs. One was in my Revo, and some of the FETs burned out (runs a little, but cogs terribly on startup). It had lasted a long time (was of the first production run). The other was a brand new one that I bought last Friday, and was running in my Hyper 8 on 4s Lipo. The MM actually released A LOT of smoke after only a couple of minutes of running... and it even had a fan over it.

It wouldn't hurt to add some, but they'd have to be low-ESR types and soldered VERY close to where the power wires meet the board. I wouldn't replace what's there; no need to really - and they're probably in a better location.

Between Gixer and i, I think we started the 5s runs with a MM, I have not had problems with them. I have said in my posts, that i wouldn't recomend it because If it smoked it would smoke good. I told Newe that the 10XL might be better than my combos because the lower kv should make less current on 5s. I enjoy mine, but i wouldn't recomend it to anyone, if you want 5s, get a quark, mgm or chill for the monster mamba max

Yes, most of the things that we are doing is experimental. I can expect that we would blow things up. What ticks me off, or has me aggravated, is that my buggy runs fine. No problems whatsoever. I didn't start to have problems until I started messing with the Muggy. The weight and the tall 40 series tires are definitely the culprits, as I have far fewer problems when running MT tires.

I really wish someone at Castle would let us know what the real limitations of the MM are. The esc is obviously capable of much more than stated. I mean, I fried one MM overgearing a 5S setup with an 8XL. It would be great if someone at Castle would simply say, well if you had gone with a 9XL or a 10XL all would be good, because...., but I can't get that.

I do have to admit, though, that today's failure was rather disturbing. I was running a setup that I knew wasn't stressing anything, because everything was running so cool. The MM dying after having landed a hard jump just leaves me baffled. I really don't know what it could have been.

When I fried that first one, I didn't see smoke, but there was a lot of heat in the caps. Someone suggested that I fried a trace. I can see that. Today's failure showed no smoke or heat. I wish Castle would call back, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. Their support has been sucking lately.

I was putting my buggy back together, but it just isn't nearly as much fun as running my Muggy, so I put everything back into the Muggy running 4S.

Crazyjr, what setup are you running on 5S and in what vehicle? How much does it weigh? What batteries are you using? How long have you been running it?

As I said before. I've heard the MM referred to as a 1000 watt system by the guys at Castle. If this is true, then we should be able to run on 5S, as long as the amp draw doesn't get so high that it stresses the esc. If this is also correct, there has to be a setup that meets these demands. I'd just like to know what that setup is.

The trouble is if CC tells us the "real" limitations, then some people will simply push it further still. It's bad enough now when the limits are fairly low! And really, the limits are pretty much already stated; 4s, 100A. It's up to the user to use a motor combo that falls withing that guideline.

Some of the problem with the MM has to be programming, simply because of the commonality of parts with the Quark. MetalMan did mention maybe installing some new/larger caps on the ESC, which would probably help.

As to a "proper" setup: A MM running maximum of 4s, in a 10th scale vehicle, around 5 lbs, with the 4600, 5700, 6900, or 7700 motor. ;)

I did a small test on my new MM last night for 15 min. Took it easy, but was running 5s on a 10xl wanderer, gear 14/51 with stock diffs in my other gmaxx. Seems to be ok so far. Will test tonight real hard I think.

When i first started to run mine over the limit, I tested in front of my house usually on blacktop with a lot of heavy start/ stops. and when i was satisfied it wasn't going to burn i started to bash and now starting to race it. It never thermaled or stuttered, however, I broke a lot of drivetrain parts

that is good to know! :)

At this point, I'm now thinking that even the 8XL is hot a motor for the MM on my Muggy. Maybe I should get a 9XL. On the other hand, I did get to run the Compro when trying to get it programmed and it didn't have any trouble running anything I threw at it. 5S with the 7XL with higher gearing than I would have attempted with the MM and 8XL. But for the fact that I couldn't program the Compro, I would have considered it a good replacement for the MM.

I still like the MM in relatively light vehicles, but I think that a real MT controller is called for in anything heavy, say over 12lbs.

i would agree, but I'm cheap! lol

Hey, I'm cheap too. I prefer the term "frugal." That's why I consider the MM such a value. It can do so much, but it appears that I, and perhaps others, are running the MM on the ragged edge of what it can take.

I believe your problems stem from the big tires and near direct drive situation, I run mine in a Gmaxx and G2R gorilla conversion, bot with trannies and they get hot on long runs but haven't burned one yet. this summer i need to put fans on them

There's no doubt that my problems are the result of the gearing due to the tires, weight, etc. I'm sure that if I had this setup in a lighter truck, I wouldn't be having any problems at all.

I'll get the Compro back sooner or later. Maybe I'll luck out and Mike will let me trade it for something else, since it is brand new. Either way, I'll get the right setup. I've gotta tell ya. For those few minutes that I was able to get the Compro running, the performance far exceeded anything that I've been able to pull out of the MM in my Muggy. The Compro ran so cool that I was able to really start getting on some gearing. IIRC, I ran 14/46 with the 40 series tires and it was on the borderline of stupid. The power, for me, was almost unimaginable. If I can get the Compro running right, I think I might even get to like it, inspite of the reverse issues. I found the programming easy and there was zero cogging.