HV-Maxx 4.5 or MM and 9xl?
 

Cant decide what setup? I want somthing that has more runtime and power the the titans. I have 7 cell IB4200 WCE batteries and it makes my truck do about 35 m.p.h. So Im staying with the 2 speed, and something that I wont snap my axles. I not sure If I should go to BL. O and also will I be able to program the esc? Like the threw the USB?




What would I need for this? Im going to get >>

List
-------

3.3 revo axles and centers
3.3 revo knuckles
3.3 t-maxx 3.3 turnbuckles


I need to get
---------------

FLM diff cups (x2) $60
Integy Aluminum diff case (x2) $50
Hardened steel idler gear-Emaxx transmission $28
Integy Gear Box Collar (x2) $10
-------------------------------------------------------
$148 ouch! plus the motor!

I would take a mm and a 9XL over the novak any time a day..

Without a single doubt; it's a cheaper setup, which delivers more power. You can program it by computer;

you need a separate UBEC though.

I definately Agree.. that Mamba Maxx ESC is the best bang for the buck! no doubt.!

Well Lets say If something would happen to it like it fries what do I do then? Do I just put the 3mm connectors back on a exchange it? So What gearing should I be using for this setup? On 14 cells. Does any one have videos of this setup with 12 or 14 cells? Or just pics? Also what about runtime?


Im going to the 3.3 axles so what do I need?

3.3 revo axles and center
3.3 revo/t-maxx knuckles
3.3 t-maxx turnbuckles

On the revo center one side has like two screws sticking out of it. DO I have to cut those off?

I take it you mean the centre sliders- I would get some proper metal CVDs- much much stronger. The rest of your list is fine.
The MM wont take 14 cells very well.
I would run the 8xl on the MM with 12 cells. Gearing wise...... start at something like 25:1 overall, then maybe go up on the pinion a tooth at a time/ down on the spur a couple teeth until you find the 'sweet spot' for that setup.

Well with a ubec. Well I only have $80 for the axles so what? Will thede axles hold the stock titans on 14 cells? In tell I buy the BL? How long will the axles last on the titans?

way off.
remember that's its not a high rpm motor, you can start gearing a 8XL around 16/1, it'll do about 30ish then.

Yeah I do my 8XL/MM right around 16:1

Great amt of TQ and speed on 4S. I consistently radared ~41 mph on 14 GP3300s. Great combo IMO.

Wowzers, didnt realise you could gear them that high, its a big leap from the HvMaxx gearing of 25:1 on 4400kv, guess I have to start learning all my ratios again if I went the XL type motor route.
$137 for the MM + $80 for an 8XL + $34 for XL clamp + a few more $ for pinons and gold plugs etc.... = ~$280ish/£140. I'd call that a bargain for what you're getting- I think I have found my ideal setup... now to finish saving up £££ (donations welcome).

Well, the HV being rated for 4400kv is pretty hot. So, you'd need to gear that down appropriately. Plus, an XL motor has more surface area and bigger section for windings, so it's probably more like an L motor. The rules haven't changed really.

I would shot for stock gearing and go from there. 18:1 is stock and the
motor turns more rpm than stock. Bingo faster and more power with same gearing. :D

Is that with the 9xl? What runtimes could I get? 4200 7 cells. Cause I get about 30-40 on the stock setup.(I not going full throttle the whole time)

I just read some stories from bp-revo and someomne else. One said his 4.5 beat a 8xl and mm and the other he kept up with a 7xl. I like the 4.5 or 6.5 cause I drive ay low speeds so there wont be any cogging. And another is cause Ill have a warranty on it I think.

an 8XL will simple have more torque/power. perhaps he had better grip with his tires or his truck was lighter.. or the 8XL user had poor batteries.

K how would these come out?


HV 4.5 MM and 9xl
-------- ------------
40 mashers 40 mashers
40 rims 40 rims
roll cage roll cage
14 IB4200 WCE 14 IB4200 WCE

The HvMaxx will run much hotter, have shorter ru times and rev like mad on 12cells- 60-70,000 I believe = not good. The 9xl will run cooler, run longer, have more torque which is good for a heavier truck setup, and you have the option of adding up to 16cells or more with the right esc. The HvMaxx by comparison will only take up to 14cells, doesnt have as much torque since its a shorter motor, and will struggle with a heavy truck setup (I should know). In a light truck though- sub 10lbs - then the HvMaxx is an option, I have seen videos of it in action and it is impressive. What does your truck weigh at the moment with the titans and 12cells on board?

My neu 1515 2.5D (1700kv) seems to work well in my e-maxx on 14 cells geared 12.5:1 :018: After a race the motor was 36 degrees C (97 F):027:
I have only used it like this a couple of times so far and I didn't expect it to work so well. Still has good accleleration, low motor temps, lower esc temps than with 7xl geared for about the same speed (high 30's), and runtimes seem as good if not better.
But I didn't buy this motor to use in this setup, it could end up staying though.

Well The only thing I have is rear traxxas bulheads and 14 cells. So I would say 12 to 13lbs. Im surprizes nobody has this setup with pics or videos.

I have the hv maxx 4.5 that beats a 8xl mm.we used the exact same batts.true rc 8000 4s lipo.My truck is about 3mph faster and the acceleration is exactly the same.our trucks are the same weight also.my truck has also beat a 4s quark w/ neu 2200kv motor not sure which one but I know the kv.my truck is 10lbs 4oz and it runs great.the only race i lost was a lehner 1940 9 w/a quark and 5s 8000 mah true rc batts,but he didnt beat me by much.to sum this up Im glad I bought the novak I beat the crap out of it and it never gives me any problems.

#12 - what kind of run times do you get with the 4.5 compared to the MM/8xl? I would assume that the MM/8xl would get a little longer, but don't really know...

Thanks

The run times are about the same.It also doesnt get any hotter than the mm 8xl combo.The only way you can tell the difference in performance is if you run them side by side.If you take them out seperately they feel the same.The mm is nice because you can program w/laptop but once your done you really never change anything.I got my hv for 300 and my buddys total was around 215,so if it came down to money the mm is the best combo for price only.

The 8XL/mm combo is also a bit more forgiving for gearing issues from what I've heard of the HV...

BrainG I just read in the traxxas fourm that you have a 10xl on 14 cells hoe does this run?

He is actually running the 9xl.
http://scriptasylum.com/bl_conversions/

Yeah, I went with the 9XL instead of the 10XL. I recently fried the 10 from running unloaded due to a silly center diff. Grrrr. Other than that, it runs just fine.

How many cells? And any videos?

14 cells, and no videos.

still; The kv of the novak makes no sense at all.

I am sure that the 8XL is faster than the 4.5 with the right gearing and good batts.

the kv is unloaded.I almost didnt get the novak because of all the people on the forum saying how bad it was.the strange thing is I dont think these people have or saw a hv 4.5 run.I got a good deal on the novak and said what the heck if I dont like it I can put it on e bay and get my money out of it.out of the 4 trucks I run with the only one that beats mine is the lehner quark 5s combo period.mine is faster than the 8xl and he has tried different gearing combos.I beat the neu quark 4s combo but it is very close,and the run times are all about the same because we all use the same batts.I know its hard to believe but its really true.Sorry:005:

maybe you're just a better driver than the others. :005:

still, the high KV (and the high temperatures) keep me from buying one.

With better cells the 8XL/mm controller combo IS faster, no way around it. again; the power a setup can deliver depends on the quality of the batteries; If the batteries are limiting the setups power both will deliver the same power.

That's my point.

A 4S powered monster can do 50mph, try that with your hvmaxx.

Hey Serum, you reckon the 6.5 motor (3100kv) would be a good improvement over the original 4400kv motor? Im thinking on good quality 7 cells packs (16.8v), it would have more speed and torque, and run cooler thanks to the new sintered rotor..... What do you reckon, from a hyperthectical view point?

A new 6.5 motor only cost £60 /$120 ish from tower (£100 in the UK, geh?), so it might be worth trying- cant be any worse/slower/weaker/hotter.....

a new rotor is only $35, and would be cheaper than the motor kit. when the 6.5 came out last summer, i had just purchased my 4400 system and called novak to see if they recommended the 6.5 motor, or just install the new rotor. they said the only things new were the rotor and the ribbed endbells to control heat, but that the endbells didn't really dissapate all that much. they recommended just installing the new rotor. it's pretty easy to install too, just make sure you grip it with pliers - hard - and slowly insert it. the magnetic pull is super strong, and could damage the sensor at the back of the can if it slips.

the sintered rotor does cut heat a lot, and the braking power is immense compared to the 4400. i didn't really notice much of speed boost though.

Oh and #12, how much does your maxx weigh & gearing? (I ask everyone that these days...)

Yeah, the rotor on its own would be alot cheaper to buy, but Im thinking about the KV ratings.

The old HV4400 is 4400kv, the 6.5 motor is 3100kv, and the 4.5 motor is 4800kv. With more turns and a lower kv the 6.5 should have better torque and run cooler than the original motor, even on 14cells ( I have seen a few videos of the 6.5 in revos and I like what I see):024: :cool:

10lbs 4oz 13 pinion 72 spur

Cheers dude. Got any pics / videos anywhere? I only have the one vid of my batteries exploding due to poor gearing selection, but when I had the Hv4400 in my TXT-1 with Emaxx tranny, wow, didnt it shift!.... Its a very under rated system I reckon.

This is a very interesting thread. It has always puzzled me how novak motors have received so much bad rap. Here's what I've collected ever since people started using brushless motors in bigger vehicles. First there were the feigaos. People started out using the 8l and 9l winds, which from what I've heard, have had way too many overheating issues. Meanwhile, the HV4400 was out and it seemed to receive a lot of criticism from people who didn't didn't even own them. My guess is that they were referring to novak motors in general since the ss5800 had its issues causing the widespread assumption that sensored was inferior technology... etc. Also, the fact that both the motor and esc had a thermal shutdown made it seem like novak systems were overheating more than they actually were. Now, while more and more people began to use 8l, 9l and 10l motors, the complaints of overheating began to show through. The explaination for this was too much kv, and thus the overall trend was leaning to the bigger, low kv XL motors, where 30k-35k rpm is now the norm. Even so, the xl motors still have heating issues.

Fairly recently, novak replaced the rotors in all of their motors with sintered rotors. After that, all complaints about novak products seemed to have disappeared almost completely. You don't hear about many hv maxxs on the forums, but they are out there because every lhs has them.

Psychologically, the raw look of the feigao motors and the fact that they are sensorless give a limitless impression. That could be another reason why the feigao motors receive a lot of loyalty. In summery, I think the HV4.5 deserves more credit than it gets. Nobody has proven it to be a "weaker motor" or have "too high kv" for the job. Sure it has has a smaller rotor, but what really matters is how well it can dissipate heat and how efficient it is. If you look inside a feigao motor, its hard to see how it could be more efficient than a novak motor. The feigao motors are basically bundles of wire held together by epoxy while the novak can holds its wire neatly in place with a nice steel stator stack. In fact, when I opened up my feigao 380 12s, looking through the front, the rear bearing wasn't even centered in relation the coils. I've had three feigao motors and a novak ss5800, and the novak after all, ended up being my favorite. Other than some of the early issues that this motor has had, I haven't had any other problems. All my feigao motors have 1. fell apart, 2. overheated, and 3. didn't fit properly in my vehicle. Sure they were more powerful than the novak, but there really wasn't a gear ratio for them that didn't cause heat. The novak would run stone cold on any of the lower pinion gears and only overheated when the pinion gear reached a certain point.

Now, I am about to switch to a 1/8 buggy and I am seriously considering running a novak motor with it. The esc is a totally different matter, but if the mamba max, which I have, can handle the 8xl, why can't it handle the hv4.5, especially if castle is releasing software to handle the novak motors? Mamba Max + HV Maxx: That would be the ultimate, lightweight, affordable setup.

I think some of the "pad rap" Novak gets is due to the high kv motors they use and they seem to be sensitive to gearing more than other motors, especially XL that has the extra torque which makes it more forgiving. Most now go with a motor with a kv of ~2000 or under and use voltage to get the 35k rpm sweet spot. For a given power, it's more efficient (fewer losses due to high amperage) to use higher voltage and less current than vice versa.

And as far as efficiency is concerned, you really outta check out a Neu motor. There IS definitely a reason for the cost difference! Of course, can't currently use them with a MM very well.

MM & novak BL, now there's an idea. I think the Velineon setup would be perfect in that respect- if they release a 5/6s version. It would be able to handle very high current/mid voltage motors like the HV range with the sensors plugged in- zero cogging & excellent low speed driveablity. Yet at the same time you could plug in a big ass sensorless like a Feigao XL or Neu maybe, and use that setup to power your 1/8 buggy to warp speed with a higher voltage.... things are definately looking up whichever way you look at it.