Kontronik Fun 600-17
 

Anybody have any thoughts on this motor? It looks to be the size of a L can motor. ~1700 rpm/v and what really caught my eye was that it can operate at up to 300 degrees F. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGCW7&P=ML

That might be a good motor; segmented magnets like Lehners. Give it a try and let us know.

Yeah, Alawi is curious about the results as well, my guess is it will preform pretty good. I would buy one if the price here in Europe was more decent.

Kontronik can make you individual builds of this motor with 2100, 2500 or even 3200kV. The best for the E-Maxx would be 2100. This motor is very popular around the folks on rc-car-driver.de.
You'll need to make a flat spot on the shaft though.

That would depend on the amount of cells you want to run.

On 5S the 1700 is a nice in betweener for good runtimes.

Speaking about custom winds; You can get the plettenbergs maxx/bigmaxx in different configurations as well; the bigmaxx as a ~1650kv, and the maxximum as a 2200Kv.. (both available in 3 winds instead of 2 winds)

With a 2 year warranty! I would try one if they had a higher kv.

I am most impressed with it's high operating temp. 200 degrees is hot for other motors. This one is ok up to 300?

If it dies at 250, send it in for warranty replacement!

300 may be magnet temp, outside will likely be cooler though.

There is a movie of the 600/21 (2100kv) on youtube, here this is a nice addition as well;

15 bucks;

http://www.kd-modelltechnik.de/shop/...es/KT09400.gif

Is it OK to run it hot because it gets too hot like a Feigao? Being segmented magnets I would think it would run cooler like a Lehner of Neu.


EDIT:

Links to the movies Serum Mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTyBPd7jo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7FAnT7RMkI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsDxaA0vjPk

Hi,

This is my first post on your forum. But i am reading it since quite some time as i converted my 12 year old Crono S6 1:8 buggy 6 months ago. Perhaps i can share some insights on this type of motor as i am using a Kontronik fun 600/25 (2500rpm/v) with a kontronik jazz 80 controller.

This is a pic of my setup using 2 2s4p Konion 1100
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/rc/crono_s6.jpg

I would compare this motor to a lehner 1930. 2 poles, dimensions: 36 x 59 mm (1.42in x 2.32in), Weight: 270 g (0.6lb), Output shaft 5mm. As already stated the rotor consists of segmented magnets and the overall feeling is that you have a quality motor in your hands.

Kontronik sells a custom heat sink which fits perfectly around the motor can. You can see it installed on my motor on the pic as well. Mine lies flat on the chassis so there is some heat transfer to the chassis plate.

The fun 600 motors have an open front/end bell which may concern some of you. So if you want to you may install some kind of protection comparable to the NEU motors one. Since i've driven another motor with open end bell in another offroad car and never had an issue with it i didn't even bother to protect this one. I think it has a good impact on motor temperature when the holes are not covered. But it sure depends on the position of the motor in your chassis.

I'm using 12 GP3700 NiMh cells or 4s4p Konion 1100 (from a Bosch 36V power tool battery). Gearing is 12/52 which translates to a top speed of around 37mph. As i'm using an eagletree datalogger i can provide you with some detailed informations.

Graph using my Konion 4s4p setup driving on concrete up and down: (accelerating, top speed, breaking, turn, accelerating and so on)
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/kon...ste_minute.gif

As you can see my peak performance on this run was around 1000 Watts. When driving on a forest road which is similar to a small race track i usually see peaks of 1200 Watts using my GP3700. At the end of my runs (after 6 to 12 minutes depending on the batteries i use) my max motor temperature is around 70°C (158°F). Outside temperature here is around 30°C (86°F). Average Watts: 350W. Average Amp draw: 25-27Amps. My mah draw varies between 350-450mah per minute. The buggy wheighs around 4Kg (8.82 pounds) as my batteries are wheighing between 740g-826g (1.63-1.82lb).

From my point of view i can recommend this motor for buggy use. I think in any application where you can fit a lehner 1930 a fun 600 motor would also do the trick. Benefit: fun 600 sells at 150 Euro whereas a lehner 1930 sells at around 200 Euro. And the kontronik motors are usually shipped in less then a week.

When you use a Kontronik Jazz 80 controller (integrated switching BEC up to 18 cells, so no Ubec needed, cont Amps 80, burst amps 100, up to 18 cells, Car, boat, flight, heli mode) with a fun 600/25 you have a perfect match since both are built by Kontronik. This means no cogging at all even if you hit full throttle from a standstill.

Before i used the fun 600/25 i used an 8 pole Graupner 600M (2600rpm/V) and although Kontronik told me the Jazz 80 do not match with this type of motor (RPM issue since i got around 36000-42000rpm with an 8 pole motor which gets beyond the jazz 80s RPM limit of 150000rpm for a 2 pole motor) i could drive the Graupner Motor and also saw peaks of around 1000 Watts. But you have to fit a heat sink on the controller (otherwise it will thermal) which really is no big deal then it's perfectly suited to be used as a car controller.

Bottomline: the fun 600 and jazz 80 is a good combo for 1:8 application.

And for you guys wondering how the car looks with body ... there you go:
http://bt2007.braintrust.at/ds/crono_s6sl/img04.jpg

But the last few weeks i converted the car back to its original buggy look.

Greets from Austria,

Othello

Thanks for your post Othello, and welcome to the forum!

What is the diameter of the magnet of this motor?

A lehner 1930 uses a 19mm diameter rotor, which is 30mm long, judged by the can of the fun 600, it might be closer to the 1940 than the 1930? But that would depend on the diameter of the rotor.

Good question!

As i never had to open the motor, i can not answer your question. But i have found the following image on kontroniks website showing an open motor. Could also be a fun 500 not fun 600.

http://www.kontronik.com/Grafik/offen1.gif

The rotor is 19mm size, and yes it's between the 1930 and 1940. Kontronik released the Fun-600 with built in heatsink and they called it the Mambo.
http://www.kontronik.com/Mibo/250Mambo.gif

Hi Othello, I believe I have seen a video of that buggy somewhere, in the woods, on road and on grass with some outtakes at the end. I was most impressed, in fact it gave me a big push towards me getting my own scale 1/8th buggy project going.

Any chance of a link to it here?

OK, my interest is sparked. These motors can be had for a good price in the States. I've found the 600-17 without having to look too hard and it appears that it might be in line with a 1512 Neu motor, although it (Fun) is a two poler. I'm hoping that the MM will like this motor. From the looks of it, this may be a good alternative for a light truggy.

I would much prefer a 600-18 or 600-21, but can't find one that isn't included in a kit. If any one has a link to one in the States, please post it or PM it to me, please. I'm going to order one of these before the night is over.

I don't want to have to wait for a Lehner and I'm just disgusted with Neu/Quark right now.

icare-rc.com has them.
I would much prefer if Mike could carry them.
You can get the 17 and I guess the 15(?) motors from towerhobbies as well without being sold as a kit.

Also, I'll be getting my Kontronik Twist-55( similar to a Lehner 15 series) and I'm gonna use it with the Mamba Max, too. It's rotor is quite smaller than the 600's, though.

I just read through this thread again and have some questions.

First, isn't 350 -450mAh per minute kind of high on the current draw? Othello says that he was running on concrete, so if resistance goes up when running on dirt, then you can assume 450mAh consumption. If this is right, then you're only going to get around 18 to 20 minutes of runtime on an 8Ah pack. That isn't very good.

Even my Feigao will get me half an hour. What am I missing.

Another thing is that the rotors in my Feigaos look just like the rotor in the pic that was posted. Again, what am I missing?

What is it that makes these motors better than Feigaos?

I just need to know before I make another purchase that I'm going to regret.

I can't give any input to your questions. I haven't try a feigao in my whole life either, so giving comparisons would be difficult for me.

@nativepaul
The video you are referring to does not show the performance of my actual setup therefore i didn't posted it here since i considered it offtopic. At this time i was using 1 year old gp3700s, a Genius 70 controller which was only capable of 700 Watts and an Graupner 600m 8 pole Motor.

This is a screenshot from the video
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/crono_s6sl/vidcap.jpg

And here are the links to the video
medium resolution: http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/cro...deo_medium.mpg
high resolution:
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/cro...ideo_large.wmv

@AAngel
You're right about my mah consumption. It's high. But i would not blame the motor for it, since i got similar readings with my 8 pole Graupner 600M. It mostly has something to do with the challenging sort of racetrack where i drive. The rather high wheight of my setup. The relative high KV motor. And of course my driving style. The tires i have mounted have a good bite even on dirt and are rather big for buggy tires. All that together sums up to 450mAh per minute on a dirt surface when pushing things to the limit.

On my maiden drive i only had 150mah per minute. Tyres had no grip. Differentials where not setup properly so all the motor power unloaded to the front tyres. At this time i only had Amp peaks of 50 Amp. As i tuned my setup Amps went higher and higher. My Actual setup can draw up to 120 Amps which is the limit of my batts and esc.

@aangel; i would say that would go hand in hand with drivestyle, it's not that this motor is less than halve as efficient as your current setup. What are the temps on the motor?

He said 158 somewhere back in thread.

As i log my motor temperature with my eagletree datalogger i just looked through some previous logs and this was the one with the highest temperature reading. actually 73,7 C (164.6 F) and not 70 C (158 F) as i stated previously.

http://bt2007.braintrust.at/ds/rc/ea...temp_graph.gif

you have to look at the gray curve. It startet with 42 (107.6 F) and while driving it rose. I had to make two short breaks as some guys came up with their dogs. These are the most critical moments as there is no airflow anymore. Therefore you can see the highest peak on my second break 73,7 C (164.66 F). As i started driving again the temperature sank back to 65 C (149 F).

Outside temperature was around 29 C (84 F).

Great info, thanks Othello.

If you decide to buy this motor make sure you order the kontronik heatsink aswell. Part Number was already posted. And remember that mine also lies flat on my chassis plate so there is some heat transfer. After finishing driving you can feel the difference. The chassis plate is warm to the touch. But nothing like when i used my nitro motor.

http://helihobby.com/html/helicopter...ic_motors.html
600-18 in stock. A little bit more money but oh well.
I ordered one.

Lets hope they don't use the word segmented as a description of the 3 thick slices of the magnet..

They look like they might be good for filling the gap between the feigao's and the neu's/lehner's.
Kept us posted whoever else gets one, I know you will though.

I say instead of getting the optional heatsink, the Mambo looks much better and quite purdy.
Serum, do you think these three thick slices is not a good idea for a segmented rotor?

My problem with the rotor is that it looks just like what is in the Feigaos. I don't see what the big deal is, but then, what do I know.

As for the current draw, it just dawned on me that the batteries that he was using were probably dropping voltage under load causing the amp draw to go up.

At $150, I'd be tempted to try one of these motors. At $200, the price is too close to that of a Lehner or Neu.

I hear that.

$150 is good in between price point, if it is better quality that the feigaos.

It is better, that's for sure. I have the FUN480-42 and when I used it in my already sold B4 with 10 cells it made the car go CRAZY, and for my amazement, the motor did not feel hot at all. When I'll start my 1/8 brushless buggy, I guess I'm gonna get the 600-17 with two 3s 4900mah FlightPower and have some party!!! I don't know how well do they stand against the Lehners, though.

What threw me off on the Kontroniks motors was that the 600-17 is closer to 1600kv and the 600-18 is closer to 1800kv, so the label are misleading.

There is actually 200kv difference between the 17 and 18. I just don't know if the 18 is worth the extra $50. This might not make sense to some, but at $150, I'd jump on a Kontronik. At $200 for the 600-18, I'd be willing to pay the extra for a Lehner or Neu.

I am really tempted to get the 600-17, but I think that it will be more of a 5S motor than a 4S motor, which is what I'm looking for.

Captain, have you run a 600-17 on 4S?

I've never owned a 600 series befor. Sorry that I couldn't give a satisfying answer...:)

I haven' read through this whole thread, so my question is do they use segmented rotors? These things look like a pretty good motor, just in between the Feigao's and Lehner/Neu's. At least price wise.

Yeah, they seem like segmented rotors.

Also, make note that the claim that these motors can tolerate up to 300F needs a very simple clarification: the internal heat is much higher than the external( when touching the can), so I got a message from Mike Franz of Kontronik saying that the motor can tolerate heat up to 150ْC internally and 100ْC externally. It seems that the heat tolerance is pretty similar to the other motors.

Kinda what i figured on the temp handling.

I agree, the rotor is always going to be hotter as well, IMO.