Stock Truck Purchasing Delimma
 

I like racing my BL Jato on Wednesday Nights' electric-only races, but due to being "slightly" modified, I am forced to run in Mod truck class. Mind you, I don't expect to win, but I'm up against some pretty decent drivers and my driving skill, well... lets not go there. Let's just say I keep the marshals busy either flipping my truck over or literally diving out of the way from being hit (seriously, one guy thought I was doing it on purpose until I explained that I simply cannot drive :)).

Anywayyy, I've been looking at a couple stock truck options, which will allow me to run in novice or stock truck class with others of similar driving skill. So far, I have it narrowed down to two vehicles, but can't decide between the two: Team Losi XXX-T RTR or the Team Associated T4 RTR.

The XXX-T has the advantage (to me) of being BL out of the box. But, I noticed it used C clips in some areas. Cost $329.

The T4 has a brushed motor (ewww), but uses captured pins instead of C clips. The people at the LHS seem to prefer the T4, but not sure if they're simply fanboys. Cost $229.

Cost and included powerplant aside, they look very similar. Durability and ease of maintenance are my primary concerns - my Jato takes a severe beating but simply does not break. Both trucks are very similar construction-wise, so I assume they will handle about the same.

I am leaning towards the Losi simply because I like BL (duh). But I thought I'd get some more input first. Thoughts?

Are you required to run it as stock, or just with a 27T equivalent motor? Personally, I'm a huge fan of the T4...I've got 2 of them. The Team or RTR version of the T4 is much more durable than the FT T4 due to the plastic parts instead of the carbon parts. I broke an A-Arm on my FT T4 last weekend on my second lap on the track when I caught my front tire on the corrugated piping. My Team T4 running a much faster motor was taking everything I could dish at it. This included several end over end landings from about 5ft in the air. As a matter of fact, I'm so happy with my T4's after having them on a track recently that I'm thinking about cancelling my BO for a VXL Rusty and buying another Team T4 to bash with. And if you're looking for a pretty good deal on a semi-roller...check here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=019

Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I guess it's considered stock if it comes with the motor out-of-the-box, whatever motor that might be. And with BL, I don't have to worry about those pesky brushes. :) I kinda like the RTR simply because I don't have to worry about getting the right parts to stay in the stock class.

I just remembered: I did break something during on the Jato in the last race: the RPM bumper. Yup, an RPM bumper - the stuff that is supposed to virtually indestructable. That should give you an idea what my poor Jato is subjected to. :)

OK, so that's one vote for the T4.

In hindsight, I shouldv'e made this into a poll thread...

You should dig a bit more into the rules of the class. Most stock truck classes are for 27T motors or equivalent. It usually doesn't matter how hopped up the vehicle is in other areas. The motor and batteries are usually the only limiting factors for classification.

Hmm, maybe I will. The Wed night race is really informal. The classes seem to be more for grouping the drivers with like-skill than anything.

If glassdoctor were here, he could shed more light on this since he runs the races...

I would definetly check out the rules a little more. the losi comes with a 4300 (10.5turn) novak which is more like a 19turn then a stock. For a stock equivalent novak makes a 13.5 turn.

I have both of these motors and run them during our indoor season on a 80ft track. Neither is very powerful but on a small track they can be enough to have a fun time and not really worry about breaking parts.

Personally, I think a Rusty would be an option. I know it would be my choice, simply because parts are cheap, there durable as hell, there are so many parts to choose from, and there are MANY mods you can do to them to make them handle better. Most say the Rusty handles like poop when it comes to racing against T4's and such, and I don't really doubt it, but I would go with the Jato suspension mods you can do, as well as a RCM-RC chassis. That should make it handle loads better, and it will be tuff as nails. As far as class rules, I'm not sure if the XL-5 is gonna meet the rules (doubt it) as well as the VXL, but some clubs have the if it came that way, you can race it in the novice class type thing..

OK, I'll have to put in a vote for the T4 too. The captured pins are definitely an advantage, but what I really like about the T4 is the tranny. It's tough and will take whatever abuse you throw at it, provided that the regular maintenance is done.

If you happen to run across a really good deal on a factory team version, you can always just boil the arms. It will soften them up a bit and make them less brittle; otherwise, I'd go with the team version.

I own the T4, and have practiced on my track before it closed and I must say it's design and price FAR surpass the Losi. I can disassemble the entire truck and reassemble it within an hour and I'm slow. It is neutral and can be tuned to one extreme or another and anywhere in between. I love the simplicity, and I love the fact that ALL you need out of the box for the rtr is tires. Get the t4 and check this forum out www.rc10t4.com You won't be dissapointed. oh yea, the stealth tranny ist he best on the market.

I just remembered that Thunder Tiger just bought out Associated. I don't know what impact, if any, that will have on the quality of the T4, but it might be a consideration.

So, I have 0 votes for the Losi, 1 for Rustler, and 3 votes for the T4.

Thanks for the input guys.

AFAIK, nothing on the T4 has changed in the ownership of TT. I imagine that things are cooking along very well at Associated in terms of quality vehicles...just look at the new TC5 and RC8.

I go T4 as well, i have a team and its quite durable. Except when the posts at the pits step out and try to hit it (missed the first two but three was too close to miss;) )

BrianG:

Hi,

Having owned both I would go with the T4 I did. I went with the FTT4 as I really like building my own kits I only changed the chassis to a plastic for more bite. I have a 13.5 brushless in mine and I run it in the stock class (27t) with no problems.

hope this helps

Thanks

Yep, I have had great experience with my brushless rc18mt, and if I was to pick a stadium truck, it would definitely be the t4 for racing, and then the rustler for bashing... it is just tough as nails.

i would actually go rusty too. i know you guys like the others and so do i but let me give you an example. my brother (12yrs old) got a rusty and (not bad but he has only raced 2 races before but defiantly not great) races it with the t4s, xxx-4s, and stock buggy's, now i know it is not all about speed but my brother wins 2 out of every three races. He even beats the veterans drivers. why you ask (i know it is not all about speed) because his car does 30 on a fully charged pack while the others do like 22mph and he smokes them in the straights and carries much more speed in the turns. and for a rusty it does not handle that bad it actually is comparable to a higher end truck on a street track as far as handling. he also recently raced with a t4 stock with (orion lipo) and a Brushless stock xxx-t and also won. so i think that this speed will help make up for the wrecks you have to catch up on. in addition because it is a basher it is very durable. so if he crashes nothing never breaks and because it is so simple it is so reliable and that is 50% racing anyway because if your car does not run or breaks you lose. out of the whole time we have had it (6 weeks) nothing (i am serious) has broken. the only recommended thing you should do is put thread lock on the motor screws, but absolutely nothing has broking at all and we have been bashing racing, all terrain. it is so durable and reliable that my self just wants to get one so when everything else is not working i have something to play with. sorry for the long speech.

While I respect that a couple of you would buy a Rusty to race, here's the downfalls of it...

No adjustable camber links
Stock bushings in axle carriers
Differential isn't adjustable
Weak tranny without at least an AL Idler
No options for rear toe adjustments unless you buy an FLM chassis
Kinda heavy for a stadium truck
Narrow track width in front

IMO, the rusty is a very poor choice as a racer unless you like spending money to upgrade parts to make it tweakable. Out of the box it's a great basher, but it's just nowhere near the same class of racer as a XXX-T or T4. There's a reason you don't see anyone race a Rusty on the national level.

I also vote for T4 (with stock equivalent brushless?). Never had a T4, but have had many of the earlier 10T's. If you like the jato (maybe that's part of your driving problem?lol), then see if you can put stock equivalent brushless in that. Of course the jato may be slower with same power than a T4 would.

camber and toe and all those little adjustments do matter, but the factory inadjustable settings are not bad and any good driver can make up for the lack of performance tuning options, but yes adjustability helps. But if brian is not one to sit and re-adjust the camber if it has a slight under,over steer, loss of grip ect... then those things might not be important to him. WHat ever you get brian you will be happy because there all great trucks.

Yeah, I like to set it up for what I think will be good and then leave it alone. Like I said, I'm not a really good driver yet so how can I effectively make adjustments and actually see the differences? Besides, I believe wholeheartedly that racing is 30% truck, 70% driver. A good driver can make anything run good. OTOH, having the capability of those adjustments is nice if I ever do get good enough.

So, it looks like the T4 wins, closely followed by a Rustler, and the Losi in last place with 0 votes. Hmmm, looks like the LHS guys maybe aren't simply fanboys after all and there is a reason for the choice.

The Jato is my basher since it is actually very tough. I think it would do well in the Mod truck class once the person behind the wheel gets better. :)

However, now I have to wait a couple of weeks before I get it. I spent wayyy too much money yesterday on another form of entertainment which I won't go into here...

Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions!

Brian, you'll enjoy the T4.

As for successful racing being 70% driver, I think it's a higher percentage than that. One friend of mine is just one of those guys that keeps a cool head and is very analytical. He sorts everything out and figures out the best way to get around EVERYTHING. I don't know how he has any fun like that, but he does.

Anyway, he showed up at the track a while back with a Monster GT that he put MT tires on and kicked everyone's butt. This was in MT class that was dominated by Revos. I know that the Revo is a better handling truck. I know that for a fact, but it sure didn't help the other drivers.

If you got you're heart set on a traxxas, there is only one i'd choose for racing, SRT. I know its discontinued, but all nitro rustler parts for suspension are exact fit and rustler electric tranny parts fit perfect. I am currently building one with a new stampede/rustler slipper with plastic top gear and alumnium idler, will post pics when i get a chance

Well, you don't really have to be a good driver, just a consistent one. The best drivers are the one's that may not always get the best racing line, but always follow the same line each lap and don't crash. If your consistent, you know how the car is supposed to react and can then make changes. The 2 BEST things you can ever do is either as the hot lap guy at your track or go by the stock set-up, and to get consistent laps.

Brian by roar rules which is what most track's go buy stock is considerd any 27t motor with 24 degrees of timing.

Hey... I'm back hee hee.

I vote for the Losi Novak BL RTR for what it's worth even though I run a T4 myself. There really isn't much difference between the trucks... it's 90% driver anyway.

Since I'm running the races I made the Novak 13.5 legal for racing. We actually have several of the Losi RTR trucks running in the novice class and it's working very well. They even come with DSM radios IIRC.

Rusty: there's nothing wrong with the truck but if you really want a race truck... I can't recomend a Traxxas. You won't be able to ask for setup help and you won't really know if the truck is "good" or not. Also the Rustler doesn't come with good race rubber. At least the T4 and XXT come with "race" tires that are usable on the track.

I'm not sure what you have for batteries but that's another "issue". I got lipos green-lighted for mod classes but it's not ok for stock classes. I have some extra 6 cell packs you can use if you don't have any.

If you run novice... lipos will probably be ok unless it looks like you are too fast. And for stock class, maybe you can run a lipo/emoli turn down the power just a bit to make sure it's equal to the other guys.

edit

hope to see you racing soon... we made the track "easier" too... better for the not-so-fast guys. :)

my buddy has a xxx-t,bone stock. and i think he has won a couple of races. but he has been racing for 6 years.

Hard to argue with that since you made the XXX-T BL RTR legal in novice class. Also, the XXX-T BL RTR does not come with Spektrum. It comes with a JR XR2i radio.

Another thing to consider is that if Glassdoctor runs his T4 at the races when you are, if you bought a T4, you guys could help each other out with parts if someone breaks and one of you has spares. That's one of my main reasons with buying a T4 is that two other guys I plan to race with have them.

My biggest problem with racing is I started with too much power (dang BL setups :)), and it seems I need to learn to walk before I can run. Practice will help with the skill part. I'm better than I was when I started, it just takes time.

Thanks GD. I do have some extra GP3300 cells laying around. Just unmatched cells, but brand new. I just prefer lipos now for the runtime and ease of charging.

What did you do to the track to make it easier? My biggest problem was being able to slow down enough before the turns at the end of the doubles and triples. That and getting the Jato to put the power to the ground - which was ok when the track was swept and watered, but when it started getting dry loose dirt on it, I'm all over the place!

Hmm, so it seems like the trucks are about equal performance wise. Hows the durability between the two?

Slowing down is all in the finger. The BEST way to get that down is to start braking way early, then gradually stop shorter and shorter from the turn. You'll really learn how to finesse the brakes and how hard you can punch before you lock up your wheels.

As for traction, get the hot tires for the track. If proline, the M2 compound would be best (softest). If the track is smooth, tray adding antisquat. I would not recommend changing you shock set-up for traction as it will have ill effects on jumps. The best thing again is learning trigger finger finesse. Just practice rolling your finger and not gunning it.

For really becoming a good driver, the best advice I can give is just go slow around the track for a while till you get your line down then go faster and faster. If gunning it spins you out, put a piece of fuel tubing over the trigger on the gas side. It will stop the trigger before full throttle so you can drive like you normally do but be more controlled.

Losi has the reputation for being a little tougher than AE. Some guys who switched from a XXX to a B4 recently were complaining about breaking stuff.

With either Losi or AE you can get help form local racers and online. Especially with the trucks.... there isn't really much difference at all in performance.

As for the track... we took out that whole tricky section after the triple jump. Now you can hit the triple and keep going straight pretty much. And the table top now keeps going into another table jump.

I think going with a nice (normal :) ) stock truck for racing is a good idea. I would recomend running the 3300 also. If you don't run standard nimh packs.... the setup will be all different. We have a really good class of novice and stock trucks here too so it's some good fun racing. Last week we had 10 novice and 10 stock truck...

Nice! That jump/corner after the triple is what killed me! Now, I can go full bore. :) Not really, but should be easier.

I might just give HH a call to see if they still have the Losi on the shelf and a replacement shock cap for my poor CRT.5. Man that thing is fun on the track!

Brian, not to get off topic, but where's the tread on your crt conversion?

The CRT.5? Um, right here.