Neu 1515 or 1521??
 

OK, thanks to all of your input, suggestions and guidence, I've managed to compile everything I've wanted and needed to build my new Savage but the motor. Originally I was going to go with the Neu 1515 2.5D (1700Kv) on 6\7S A123s. Having continued to read post after post after post, I've noticed and started considering the Neu 1521 1.5D (1860Kv) and the Neu 1521 1Y (1577Kv). Not liking to push my motors to the bleeding edge, I thought the 1521s may offer me some additional over head while running considerably cooler with the right gearing and give me more gearing options as well. Cash not being an obstacle at the moment, let me know your thoughts. I want the best possible option to lug around my heavy weight Savage, reliably without having to wait 20 minutes for cool down between packs :yes:

THANKS!!
Purp

Not sure on the 21's but i got the Neu 1515/2.5d/f (1700kv) and its awsome at 5s, I plan to go to 6s when my MGM 16018 comes back to me, and see how it does

crazyjr, any idea what your truck weighs? I expect my Savage to be in the 11, 12 pound range when it's built.

Thanks!

I have both the 1515/2.5d and the 1521/1Y. They have both been in my revo. running on 5s and 6s. I setteled on the 1521/1y for the revo just because it was WAY to much motor for any other vehicle I own. They both run without any heat issues on 5s and both get warm (150ish give or take depending on the gearing) on 6s, but still no issue what so ever. In the monster truck I like the feel of the big motor. It winds up a litlle slower than the smaller motor, but it is winds up way faster than the tires can keep grip or send it wheeling onto its lid.

My revo is fairly light for a MT, but I would have to say that either motor will be plenty for your Savage. Neither one even breaks a sweat. I also have a 1512/2.5D which gives a little snappier feel than the biggger motors. I actually like it better for a track motor on 4s than the big motors on 5s. It winds up quick but has a little more reasonable power band to control.

If money is no object then the 1521 is sure a hell of a beast. IMO it just looks bad ass:bad:. Pop the lid off and people ususally do a double take at the size of it. Most folks are used to seeing a MM or Novak motor when you say brushless. The 1521 is easily twice the size of a MM motor.

I would use the 1515, are you going to run 6/7s 2p?

Seriously, I have a 1512, and I am NOT running anywhere near it's bleeding edge, this little power house is awesome, like JHautz said, it's very snappy, and 'agile' so to speak. I am running a 1512/3D (1700kv) on 7s A123 and this would probably be a beast of a racing truck, or a basher! If running a 1700kv motor, go with at least 7s A123 when 1p is used, and at least 6s when 2p pack is used.

If you drive it to at least 45,000rpm, the 1509 would probably be enough motor for a MT. The Neu motors like the higher rpms, and to be gear lower, unlike Feigaos.

But, seeing as the price isn't much more, just get the standard 1515 Neu motor, probably the 2.5D if running 7s A123.

A Savage is a beast of a truck. I tried running my 1515 2.5d on 6S and it does get warm, depending on the gearing and that is in a truggy.

For the heavier Savage, I'd try the 1521. Besides, I don't think that a motor being able to spool up quickly will matter with a Savage. If you do go with the 1515, I'd go with the 1500kv motor for 6S

he is running a123s not lipo cells, I think 1700 kv would be better; I agree 1500kv would probably be better for 6s lipo

Yeah, just to add to my post, I think you SHOULD go 2p configuration, a 1p will be worked pretty hard in a Savage. 2p will give you much better performance, and won't add much weight, % wise for the Savage.

jhautz - I was thinking the 1521 based on the sheer weight of the Savage, as AAngel says "the savage is a beast of a truck". I did have some concerns about spool up, but am hoping that the offset of the two speed tranny will help with that. But like you said, it's still going to spool up way faster than the tires can take :lol::lol: And I couldn't agree more that the 1521s sure look good in a truck!!

nl12 - I'll be using 6\7S2P, one 6\7S1P pack on either side. Depending on the overall Kv of the motor I pick, I'll solder may packs up. I'll probably end up building myself a couple of 6S packs for routine running and a set of 7S packs just for the heck of it :gasp:

zeropintbug - My MT will be solely for bashing and I'll probably end up with 4 packs. Think the 1515 can handle 60 minutes of "continuous" runtime on 6S2P (assuming about 15 minutes per set of packs)?? I know AAngel mentions that his does get "warm", nothing to be concerned about, but warm and my setup is probably going to be 11\12 pounds loaded and ready to run.

AAngle - Any idea on what your Truggy weighs in at? I know my Revo hit the scale at about 9.5 pounds and my 9XL got REAL hot when I really ran it for any length of time. That said, you get what you pay for in quality, hence my desire to step up to the Nues - can the 1515s take potentially 12 pounds for "a days" worth of running?

nl12 - Yea, I'd probably end up with the 1515/2.5D if I go with 6S. If I end up with the 1521 1577Kv, I'll probably go 7S.

zpb - Yea, I though about that as well, running the Nue to its potential would draw a ton of AMPs from a 1P config, will be xS2P for sure. - Would 7S be to much on the 1521s? I've seen mixed messages saying potentially keep the 1521s to about 28\30K RPM or so or is this just to keep the overall power in check??

Purp

The 1515 could handle a whole day of continuous driving, I'm serious. Ask any Neu owner.

I don't know how much the Savage weights, but it will be AT LEAST 12lbs

Yes, you will want to keep the RPM of a 1521 down around 28,000rpm, 30,000rpm for the 'Stupid Fast Events' :wink:

Here is my scoop on the Neu for trucks, for everyday bashers, or even racing power levels.

1512= choose kv. to achieve ~38,000rpm

1515= choose kv. to achieve ~32,000rpm

1521= choose kv. to achieve ~28,000rpm

This is just based on my experience with my 1512, and you can somewhat guesstimate based on the rotor length between them.

P-fade,

I didn't realize you were planning to keep the 2 speed. I run my savage with the 2 speed as well.(most people lock it in 2nd gear from what I have seen) Its a prettty fat boy loaded up with the a123 packs too. BUT, with the 2 speed it makes a hell of of difference in the amount of torque you need to get it all rolling. I run my savage on a Lehner 1940/7(2239kv) and 5s2p a123 and it can wheelie at will up to 25mph or so and hits a gps verified 52mph on the top end and I can run it all day long no heat problems. If you are planning to keep the 2 speed you dont need the big beast 1521 in my opinion stick with the 1515. I would almost recomend getting the 1512. My 1940 is probably a 1512 equivilant. Remember with lower gearing in first gear you will want faster spool up to get the acceleration you want at the bottom end in first gear. The lower resistance of the shorter first gear allows less resistance on the motor so it has less resistance to spinning, but it also means that it takes a bigger motor rpm change to get the mph change on the bottom end. Also motors get hot if they are not loaded enough, and 1st gear on a big 1521 could possible be worse for heat than a smaller motor.

The 2 speed is alot of fun for bashing IMO. You can play with tuning the shift point to get the most out of the setup also. I finaly have mine dialed in just right. It actually pops the front wheels off of the ground when it shifts into 2nd gear now. With the electric setup on the 2 speed you will want to move the shift point higher than it is set for a stock nitro savage or it will be shifting way to early and you will only be using first gear for 10 feet and it will shift.

Only downsides to the 2 speed are you need to keep mechanical brakes , and there is no reverse. But the mechanical brakes are actually good in the case of a heavy savage IMO. Braking that heavy load puts alot of stress on the ECS and getting rid of that load helps keep the esc cool.

What speed control are you planning to use? I personally think that you will have more problems keeping the speedo cool on that heavy truck than you will keeeping the motor cool.

BTW: here is a link to my savage thread in the old temp forum. http://www.rc-monster.com/tempforum/...ghlight=savage
The fan on the motor was put on there before I relaized that I didnt need it so dont let that throw you.

I was just making a statement regarding running the 1515 2.5d in my truggy on 6S and it getting warm. In fact I think that I got it up to around 165*F once, but that was geared to bust butt and I was running in grass.

As for monster trucks, I run the 1515 2.5d in my Monster GT on 4S and 5S lipo geared conservatively for about 35 mph. I can run all day with no issues. My MGT goes about 13 lbs with the 40 series Moabs on it.

I just made the above recommendations because it's what I would do if I had it to do over again. I just have to comment again, that when the going got rough the 1515 2.5d did heat up a bit on 6S.

Contrary to what some are advocating with regard to the Neu motors, I still believe that keeping the rpms to about 30,000 is a good target for a truck that's going to get bashed hard. For a 1515 2.5d, that means running it on 5S lipo or something similar.

My only concern with going with the 1521 is the torque. I already break tranny parts with the 1515. With the 1521, it might be worse.

jhautz - Love the savage, nice build! What are you using for your motor mount? I've been using the ring mounts from FD for quit a while with good luck, but am looking for something maybe a bit "tougher"? As for bulks, I've found the Golden Horizon 6065 bulks to be very nice and not toooo heavy for what they are. I also use a NOVA RC 7075 diff cup in the rear with K4.6 gears and have had no issues with my setup running my 9XL on 18.5v - its actually held together very nicely.

Thanks for the advice on the 2psd, I'll certainly be bumping my shift points up from what they're at now... Had been playing with it for some time but hadn't considered the troque of the brushless throwing it into 2nd right away... I've also kept the mechanical brakes as I figured for what it was worth it took some of the heat load off the motor and esc.

For speed control I'll be using a modded Quark, love'em and have always had good luck with them. Thought about going with the MGM, but I already own the Quark and it works :yes:



AAngel, I hear you on the torque from the 1521s, I can only imagine they're drive train killers if you don't have a light finger!! Also good to hear on your 13 lb MGT, makes me feel better that I shouldn't have any issues with the 1515/2.5d in my Savy. Heat considered, maybe I'll put together some 5S2P packs, see how things go and up it from there temps permitting :whistle:


I think you guys have once again solved my issue for me, it looks like with the two speed, the right gearing and pack setup that I'll be going with the 1515/2.5D (1700Kv) motor. Shouldn't pose any issue for it with the "lower" gearing of the two speed and give me much quicker spool up than would the larger 1521 as well as save me BIG TIME in replacement drive train parts!!

Many thanks again,
purp

I got a concern. Is the savage going to have the room for the 1521 neu in the spot you going to mount it.
It does have limits if you put the motor in some spots. Just like to add that. :)

Good point on the 1521 fitting down on the motor plate CHC. There is more to it than just the length though...

The 1521 is almost exactly 1mm longer than a Lehner 1950. so it should fit length wise. But... the 15xx series Neu motors are bigger diameter than the Feigaos and Lehners. I think like 40mm vs 36mm on the smooth motors. The finned Neus are even bigger diameter. I have my motor set up sitting flat on the motor nitro motor plate and pushed all the way over against the side plate. Set there with a 36mm diameter Lehner I can just get a 20T pinion to fit on a 47T spur gear. If you use the bigger diameter Neu motor it wont allow you to get that big of a pinion gear on it. Some quick math estimates 17-18T pinion would be the largest that would fit a 47T spur.

Do some quick estimates with BrianG's speed calc and make sure that you will be able to get the speeds you want with the kv motor you choose on the voltage you want to run. My Savage setup is spinning the motor about 37000rpm to get the speeds I mentioned on a 20/47 gearing setup.

The smaller diameter motors might be a better choice than a Neu for mounting down inside the chassis. For sure dont get a finned Neu for this application. Just something to think about before you place an order.

chc - I too was concerned about that, I know even with my 9XL I was clear against the TVPs to get the mesh correct. I'm still actually a bit concerned with the finned Nue, but seeing so many guys running them, I'm sure I'll work something out. I'm hoping for some more info on jhautz mount, looks like he has his hung off the TVP using a "simple" L mount from say 3/16 - 1/4 inch aluminum. Also liked Serums adjustable mount alot as well, just need to shoot him a quick question on the over all setup and how it worked out. I know he posted his drawings, but I don't imagine I have the skill, nor tooling (more likely) to pull off making one of my own lol...

All that fun said, I've settled on the 1515/2.5d, I think the common theme was that the 1521 was going to be a drive train killer and I do want to have fun with it vs always have it apart for repairs :yes:

LOL, looks like I should read page 2 before responding so quickly :-) So you actually had some "difficulty" getting her tucked down in there did you. Huum, now I've got some thinking to do and will most certainly have to give a much harder look into putting something like Serums mount together. I think eliminating the motor plate all together and having the space open might be the ticket. I think my only concern at that point would be the drive shaft and possibly the brake discs... Fingers crossed using the low CG TVPs buys me the space I need to hold a finned can, thoughts on that?? - I just like the thought of the extra cooling privided by the surface area of the fins, any idea how much cooler, if any, they run vs the non-finned cans?

I'm actually going to go with the FLM low CG (standard not extended) TVPs and port all my guts over when they get here, having that extra .5 in there may push things down low enough to get it all to clear (without the motor plate). My concern at that point would be stabalizing the rear section of the TVPs between the trans and rear bulks, call me crazy but I run GH aluminum braces in mine now and it just makes me comfortable to know that I have that extra solid link back there... That said, it'll probably be OK using a nice solid motor mount and the GH bulks that I'm running now, can't imaging that losing one brace would introduce that much flex in such a short distance.

Good chioce. Thats a great motor.

My motor mount is made up of a 3/16 aluminum plate screwed down from the bottom using the nitro mount holes and then I took 2 of the old Gmaxx motor mount plates and screwed it to the front of the 3/16 plate. I use the nitro motor mount adjustments to set the gear mesh.

You can kinda see it in this picture. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...z/CIMG1906.jpg

Ahh, OK, seeing the bigger picture, I see the bigger picture, lol. When I first looked at it, it looked like you had actually attached the mount to the TVP, I was curious how that worked out. I ended up doing the same thing, I used the FD ring mounts, they go completley around the can holding it like hose clamps (poor discription really, but you get the idea) and attach to the stock nitro motor plate using the stock holes for adjustment as well. All in all I really like them, but with the finned Nue, with any Nue for that matter, I won't be able to continue using them.

Now I have myself curious, maybe I'll look into cutting something down that would let me mount the motor to the TVP, run a simple support brace just over the spur nut and for stability and see what happens. I still like Serums two piece idea, gave him supreme adjustment with out all the headache of flipping the truck around to reach the nuts. Now I'm going to have to get creative!!

I've toyed with the idea of using Mikes motor mount for the Revo and just mounting it directly to the stock nitro motor plate but milling my own holes to allow side to side adjustment. Using low CG TVPs should give me the additional space I'd need for the larger pinions, but the thickness of Mikes mount may chew up a large portion of that as I know his mount is probably 3/16 inch thick or so itself. What to do, what to do :neutral:

I've got a Monster GT that I recently converted. I need to start a thread with some pics. It's only using a 1512 2.5D (2000kv) with 6s2p A123 and it's not overstressed. I can flip the truck on its lid if goose the throttle. And the truck weighs 14.5 pounds! So I think a 1515 would be plenty for your Savage.

cart213 - Dude, that's exceptional to hear, if the 1512 will motivate 14.5 pounds, the 1515 should be the grand slam for 13 pounds :party: Man.., I'm looking forward to getting this blasted thing together and actually running!! Three kids and a wife that just "hates" the hobby sure do cut into a guys free build time... Soon enough though, it's all good!

Thanks again for the info,
purp

Oh, checked out your post for the MGT, truck looks awesome man, keep up the good work!! I was a hardcore nitro guy for years, started dabbling in BL a few years ago then went full bore about a year ago and haven't looked back. Something about the quiet power and being able to run them right in my backyard without pissing of the neighbors keeps me hooked. - Not to mention I don't have to keep running to the LHS to pick up $25.00 gallons of fuel that I ran through in a day...

That sounds exactly like my situation. :lol:

You know, it's amazing how many family guys I find that are into RC :yes: It cracks me up when guys ("grown-up" as they'd like to think of themselves) come up to me and ask me why I still play with kids toys... Then they find out that I have nearly 3 grand in my Revo, that it goes 40+ mph and is darn near bullet proof - and we all know what happens next - they all of a sudden want to know if they can run that kids toy :lol: "Can I drive it" is all I hear.

Actually seems like a huge number of us on here are family men, good to know that I'm not just having a mid-life crisis :lol::lol:

I'm sure I'll be in RC until I just can't do it anymore, seems to get into the blood!

LOL, some of us started our mid-life crisis before we could walk. :smile:

I tried my Neu 1521 1y today and was blown away. My Schulze 40.160 seems to like it as well. Go for the 1521, you will be amazed by the power this beast makes.

I REALLY considered it and REALLY wanted to go for it. My hesitation was the amount of room I have down between the TVPs.., looking at a bunch of the other Savy setups on here and having a tough enough time with the diameter of my 9XL and only being able to get it so close to the TVP for gearing options, I opted for the 1515 1700Kv motor. Seeing cart213 running his MGT with the 1512 and hearing from a number of the other guys on the forum (14.5 lbs), I've got my fingers crossed that the 1515 works out OK.

That said, if I don't get my power fix, there may be a slightly used 1515 on here for sale in a few weeks :wink: Can't imagine that I'll need the 1521 as long as I dial things in appropriatly, but time will tell and it certainly would break my heart any to have to buy myself a 1521.

I think all in all I'm going to push the 1515 pretty hard, I'm planning on 6 or 7S2P packs (A123s), not sure which yet, may solderup a few of both and see how it goes. For gearing I'm looking at 18/47 with my two speed tranny (and actually concerned that I'm going to have to get creative with motor mounting to fit the pinion, it's already tight with my 16T...)

HA! Hopefully you were a late walker :oh:

I was going to get a 1515, but I like power LOL. Keep us posted on how your set up goes.

what did you end up putting it in? how many cells are you running? I had that motor in my 8t running on 5s until my esc went on me. as soon as I get an esc back from mgm I plan on putting it back in.

It is in my Bomb-Proof Products truggy. I'm using 2 11.1v 5000mAh KongPower packs in series.

Here is a couple of pictures I took a few minutes ago.

Man, you guys are making me jealous. I can't wait to get mune running again and back in the dirt!! I'm done but for the motor and esc installation... obviously been holding off on the esc to see how I'm going to situate the motor before making final adjustments. Fingers crossed I'll have my goodies from Mike in a few days and maybe this weekend have her running again :party:

How do you like those Kong packs? I was thinking of trying them out. I see that they are heavier than other lipos, but not having to worry about puffing a cell is worth it to me.

They are great.

6s on that motor should be nuts since you can gear very high. 5s in my 8t is barely controllable.:rofl:

The spur gear is 62T and the pinion is 17T. I have other pinions, but the 17T provide good speed to draw a crowd at the park I test my goodies at.