low end motors vs high end motors
 

i have been trying to find the difference between the low end motors like the BK Wanderer/Feigao vs the high end motors like the neu and lehner motors.

i currently run a 9xl and its fast and runs great. and i only pad like 70$ for it. but i see a lot of people on this forum running the high end motors like neu that can cost up to 300$ for it.

sorry if this might be a stupid question or if its been covered before. if it has then can some one link me to the thread cause i cant find a thread about this.

thanks!

if you're happy with low end motors... stick with it.. I love the low end motors.. but I love the efficiency and power of the high end motor as well...

The big difference is their overall quality, the magnets are segmented, which makes them more efficient/suitable on partial load.

A cheap motor does the job, that's for sure. Once you find its sweet spot it can run rather effcient as well

what about lifespan? will a feigao last as long as a neu?

what you mean by sweet spot? like a good amount of cooling and the right battery voltage.

gearing too

lifespan; i mentioned quality. It's most likely the bearings are of a better quality, but since they are fair easy to replace..

well maybe i should run mine and then temp it. i just now noticed i never temped it. i just let it cool down when my friends with nitro let there cars cool down in between tanks.

Lifespan.. My bearings on the 7XL went a bit after 2 years... but all in all.. it's a great motor... I really like the 12XL on 6-8 Cells... seems to work for me.. And you could get quality boca bearings for them... A fan/heatsink always helps.. I've had my 7XL for over 4 years now.. still kickin'...

would the neu, lehner, or pletenberg motors work on a mamba max.

I'm very interested in this question too...I've been running Low end motors and I also am considering the switch. Nearest I can tell you get two things, lower temps and better efficiency. My question is how much for both of these...mainly how much more run time. Do they give 5% more run time? 10%? 20%?

About the only thing I'm not happy about with my low end motors is that with 4900Mah batteries I can only make 15 mins if I really drive slow. If I get on it I often times will only see about 13 mins which is often times just a little too low.

DM

After using both XL motors and a Neu, I definitely like the Neu better. It stays cooler even when worked hard, doesn't suffer from the end bell popping off, can rev higher without heating up, and I believe they are made in the USA (which should speed any warranty work if needed).

Motor heat is wasted power not getting to the ground. So, any decrease in temps will mean more runtime. How much runtime is really hard to say. Depends on how you drive since the high end motors are more efficient over a larger rpm range.

But, is the price worth 2-3x? I say yes, but that depends on what your disposable income level is, and what you want for a system (something that works well, or something that simply blows others away).

Well said... sometimes it 7-8 times the price.... :lol:

I used to run a 7XL but switched to Lehner 1940 after mine broke. The magnets cracked in the feiago on both mine and my brothers 7XL.

So far the lehner works great! I felt like I had no choice but to go high end.

Can anyone try to estimate the gain in efficiency? Surely someone has a setup where the batteries stayed the same and they just dropped in a new motor - how much run-time did you gain? I'd be interested in on the track numbers if I had a choice...

DM

That would be tough to do. You'd have to repeat the run EXACTLY the same way to be of any statistical use. It would probably be easier to hook the motors to a constant mechanical load and then time how long each runs before the pack dies. Then, repeat the test at various speeds to emulate partially loaded operation. Compile all the data, and make a nice Excel spreadsheet complete with graphs! :smile:

I'm not really looking for anything that scientific. Just a general feeling...from someone who maybe was running a cheapo motor and upgraded to an expensive unit of roughly the same speed...did you get an extra 2 minutes of run time on 5000Mah batteries? Just an idea how much gain there will be due to all that efficiency...

DM

Tell you what, send me your Neu and I'll do all the tests :lol:

Its kinda hard to say Dave, but the is a huge difference in the feel between the XLs and a Neu. There is so much more TQ that the Neu can just make the truck zing when I want it to, where the XLs needed a bit more run-up.

You may just end up driving faster w/ the greater power and end up in the same place. But, as a very very rough estimate... if an XL is 70% eff, and a Neu (on 4S) is ~91 (call it 90%)

Then .9/.7=1.28 or so. Ie giving you 28% more runtime, if you drove the same spd. IDK the exact eff #'s of the XLs, they are not rated, but just a # I've quoted seen before . If they are 80%, then not as big of a gain.

You may be hard pressed to make 15min on 4900mah. You may need to just go upto ~6000 if that is the end-goal, and may be cheaper than trying to pinch that much out thru eff gains. The Neus do rock tho

ok i think i get it now.

here is my next question that never really got answered. can a neu or lehner run on a mamba max?

and would those motors be ok on 4 cells. 4800mah?

my run times right now with my 9xl are about 2 1/2 of my friends tanks on his nitro revo. and they lost for about 15min. but thats not driving it hard for the full time. its just taking it easy and going off jumps. i should be going to the track in a few days so i well really see how long my run times are goign to be when i drive it hard.

I tried to run my Neu on a MM and hated the cogging. Some in this forum have been able to do it but I couldn't. I did try all the usual suggestions but when i want my truck to go i want it to go. IIRC Lehners however can run on a MM.

so if i did decide to upgrade motors. i could just go to a lehner motor and i dont have to change my esc. I think i might look into that.

Good luck finding a non-used Lehner, though... Currently there is no preferrable way to obtain them in the U.S.

Is it too expensive for you in the U.S. too order directly from lehner in Germany?

I haven't heard of anyone ordering directly from Lehner, has anyone else?

Do you mean anyone from U.S. or just in in general? I have ordered directly from lehner and so has two of my friends, works great. I am in Sweden though and so are my friends...

Yeah, in the U.S.

well how bad is the cogging on the neu motor with a mamba max.


and just to make sure cogging is when its like hesitating to go right?

I did not like it. I am a basher and like poping wheelies, powerslides, donuts etc. I had to remember everytime to start out slow...it was a pain. Everything I tried helped but didn't minimize it enough for my liking, but maybe that is just me.

Some of us have better experience with the Neu/MM cogging issue, including myself. I haven't found it to be much of an issue.

well i might upgrade to the neu motors then. since it would run cooler and longer and im going to start racing my revo.

Not sure if you care, but the hacker motors work well with the mm esc. I run a few different hacker c50 and b50 cans and they are very good motors. They stay cool and are much more effecient than the feigao, which are supposed to be hacker clones(not). The prices are high, but if you check hacker's website the have a sale section that usually has motors under $200 which is good deal IMO.

wow i totally forgot about hacker motors. i might have to check them out. thanks

You putting this in a Revo? I think part of my cogging issue was that I could not gear small enough because the motor hit the E-Maxx Tranny. Maybe someone else an answer this. Can you gear smaller on a Revo tranny then an E-maxx tranny?

yah its going into a revo with the stock tranny.

and yah i think you can gear lower then a emaxx tranny i think.

Dunno about that, the largest sput you can get for a revo is a 40t (stock). You may be able to fit a larger modded spur but I am not sure. The revo tranny ratio is different, that is why the spurs are smaller than the emaxx. Both the revo and emaxx have the same diff ratios. An emaxx can have a pretty high ratio, especially with 32p gears. Like 10/72 would be 7.2/1 ration, where a revo may fit 10/40 : 4/1 ratio. Use briang's calc to figure out the various ratios for the tranny.

The Revo tranny is much more flexible as far as gearing goes. There are not really any clearance issues as the motor does not lay next to the tranny. Also, don't forget that the 2nd gear ratio is changable. Put in the narrow ratio and you can get a very high FDR (over 20:1) Top spd will suck tho.
I thought MGT spurs fit as well, but they are not really needed regardless.

Fine Design sells a large line of LMTs now, including the 1940s and 1950s. The 1950s are ~$50 more than a Neu 1515, but it would work w/ the MM. They are excellent motors tho. He's kinda of an ass, but he's the only game in the US for LMT motors. I've ordered a couple things ferom him in the past w/o issue, but some have had problems.