HobbyCity Lipo Warranty - Important Information!
 

I originally ordered a pair of Zippy lipos for my E-Revo a few months ago and was very satisfied. I decided to get another pair, and they just arrived today. I tested the voltages of all cells and they were a slightly out of balance (about 20-30mv max), but I figured it was no big deal and they just needed a full charge/balance cycle.

So I charge/balance the packs and then much to my dismay one of the cells only went up to 4.09V, while all the other cells were 4.20V. So I try to cycle them one time on the charger and at the end of the second charge/balance the one cell is still 4.09V

So now I know one of the cells is bad. No big deal, I'll send it back and get a replacement. I fill out the RMA form on the HC site and it spits out an automated RMA number and an address to return the lipo to. But then I took a look at the specific page about lipo warranty info. Here it is:

HobbyKing® Lithium Polymer Battery Warranty Policy.

Due to the complexity and delicate nature of Lithium Polymer Batteries, please note the following points prior to making a claim.

Please keep the following in mind before making a claim;
We check all battery pack voltages prior to shipping. It is a simple process and takes us 3 seconds per pack. Doing so assures us that the battery is fit for use, is within the voltage range and has no shorting.
This process does not remove slightly unbalanced packs.

1) You can only make a claim for 'Under voltage' the same day the parcel arrives and prior to the lipoly pack being charged or cycled. 'Under Voltage' means that 1 or more of the cells in you pack has a voltage lower than 3v per cell. After the battery has been cycled or used, no claim for 'under voltage' can be made.

2) We do not replace burnt batteries. All batteries are checked prior to shipping, if a short on the balance connector was to happen, it would happen prior to shipping. Burnt batteries are also impossible to examine, therefore they are not warranted.

3) We do not warrant crash damage, of any kind. If your pack shows signs of an impact or trauma, we will not replace it.

4) Never disassemble your pack. Regardless of your skill level, expertise or qualifications. We will never replace a disassembled or 'inspected' pack.

5) Rapid Capacity Loss. Should your pack fall well short of it's stated capacity, please indicate to us how you achieved capacity claim. We will test packs for charge and discharge values. Should the battery have severe capacity loss, we will test each cell for maximum and minimum voltage charge as well as I/O. This can indicate to us if the pack has been over-discharged. Packs which are over-discharged will not be replaced.

6) Because of the complexity and nature of these batteries, all packs must be returned to our Hong Kong office. Packs sent to any of our warranty agents, will be rejected.

7) Packs which have a cell voltage difference of less than .245v per cell cannot be replaced. Please balance your packs if your packs appears to be unbalanced.

8) Should you be too concerned about sending the parcel back to us due to safety reasons. We will not warrant the pack. Purchasing any battery from hobbycity.com, constitutes an agreement to this warranty policy.
Each battery brand has it's own warranty time limit. Our standard Lipoly warranty limit is 30 days, unless otherwise stated in the product listing.

I think this is ridiculous. How am I supposed to know there is a bad cell until I charge the pack and see the cell isn't going up to 4.20V?!?!?!? Also, a tolerance of 0.245V difference between cells is unacceptable. And their low cell policy only covers cells below 3V. Again, totally bogus. It's basically impossible to have a lipo pack covered by HC on warranty.

So now I can either send them my pack and have them tell me it's not covered and make me pay shipping both ways, or buy a brand new pack and pay shipping again. I guess that's the price you pay for not dealing with a LHS. I still like the Zippy packs and I know there will be bad packs here and there, but the HC lipo warranty policy leaves a lot to be desired. Looks like my Zippy packs just got a little more expensive...

leave it on the balancer until they are all the same, then charge up again, i had one 5s pack do that to me but it was off .2 to begin with, see if it will come up higher once they are all matched

Hmm... I'm not sure how to do that. I set the charger to balance charge mode and it just ends with the cells still unbalanced. How can I force it to keep balancing? It's an iCharger 106B+ if that is any help.

I have a feeling they do this on a 'sometimes' basis... i received an order once where on one of the packs, the balance lead wasn't even wired properly, and the balance plug was made useless...

is there any other way to check cell voltages without using that balance plug???



sucks to hear bout your pack man - hopefully you get it sorted... i'd just send em an email and ask someone there about it and see what they have to say... if you send it back, and they do find it faulty (that one cell still wont take a full charge) i cant see why they wouldnt replace it for ya man... maybe ask them exactly that?

I'm going to try, but I doubt I'll get anywhere. According to them my pack is fine since the cells are less than 0.245V out of balance. On top of that I charged the pack so that voided any chance of a return.

I'm not upset that I got a bad pack, I still think Zippy are good packs, no product has 100% quality control, especially lipos which are prone to QC issues. It's the HC return policy I'm mad about. And now this puts doubt in my mind, if I do order another pack what if that one is bad? There's no way to know without charging it, but charging it voids any chance of a return. It's a catch 22 situation. When I first placed orders at HC my main worry was that returns would take a long time to ship back and forth. Now I wouldn't care if it took a month or two, I would be happy to have a replacement at all.

is that what is catching you out? i remember having to read that one twice when i was reading it when i returned mine...

I'd tell em their 0.245v rule is BS, and they need to give a damn good explanation as to why it even exists... surely they would have some flexibility in it for certain situations such as yours... and surely when they get the cells there and cannot balance the pack themselves, they would refund it.... right?

Yes, the fact that I cycled the battery and the fact that the cells are less than 0.245V out of balance. Also, they say "under voltage" is only considered for less than 3V.

I admit to being a little compulsive about always balancing my cells, and for me I like to be within 10mV, and hopefully closer to 5mV or less. Am I just way to OCD about that? What is the consensus (or maybe lack of consensus?) on how close cells should be balanced?

OCD = obsessive compulsive??

nah, i would think so - all my cells are within .03 max (mostly all within .01) of each other, and i'd be worried if they were any greater... but only cause i dont know any different...

i'd also like to know everyones general idea on it...

I'm going to try, but here's the problem: "Purchasing any battery from hobbycity.com, constitutes an agreement to this warranty policy." So even though the warranty policy is bogus, you have to agree to it if you want to buy the batteries. Notice how when you check-out you have to click the little box that says "I agree to all terms and conditions" So even though I think the restrictions are ridiculous I have no recourse, since I agreed to them.

ahhhh - i never really actually thought about that one... you'll have to let us know how you go man - i got my fingers crossed for you =)

It's possible that I'm just too picky about the balancing, but I don't think so. With my first pair of Zippy packs I can do a full hard run down to the LVC (3.2V per cell) and the cells would be all within 3-5mA of eachother. We'll have to see what others think is an acceptable range for balancing cells.

you do relize that even IF they warrenty it, you have to pay shipping to them, and the shipping back...

I only had to cover my shipping to them.. They covered it back - but that being said, it certainly wasn't express!

If they dont want to warranty the battery file a credit card dispute . If they want to play hardball you can too.

I would highlight this when you do correspond with them. The pack should heat up after - x time/amps used, shortening the life of the pack. This might be tricky because they stated severe capacity loss, which is open to interpretation.

Good luck.