Question for Mike and others with their own milling machines...
 

I have been trying to buy a smallish, but full-action (4-axis) CNC mill for quite some time now, but every time I think I am ready, something comes up and I have to spend the funds. Well, this is where you guys come in...

What do you guys use; either CNC or manual? I have been thinking about just buying a micro or mini-mill and maybe later converting it to CNC. It only needs to be big enough to make parts for RC vehicles, so nothing huge. Price initially wasn't an issue, but as of late, at the rate things keep happening, I am uncertain of what my budget is.

Maybe one of you knows of a good old mill that works great, and I can find one on eBay or something, rather than buying a brand-new mill.

Also, if I just buy a small mill, I will also need a small metal lathe, so any help on that would be greatly appreciated as well.

I was looking at getting a mill and a lathe, and was reading up on them.

Here is a very good post on machines for noobs 101. You can also check out CNCnation for info as well.

Basically it gets down to you get what you pay for, and buy cheap buy twice. Most of the older more experienced guys hate the small and cheap HF machines, tho many people like them for lite work. Ultimately they are limited, sloppy, frustrating and take a lot of work to get up to useable levels. These guys tend to not like the all in one machines as well (mill/lathe combo) for similar reasons (jack of all trades, master of none)

The comments I've seen on CNC for noobs is basically you are better off getting a manual machine and learning how to machine properly rather than trying to cheat thru it relying on software to make up for lack of skill. Also, cnc seems better suited for repeatitive and mass produced parts, or parts with complex curves. If you are making some simple one-off part, it would be faster to do it manually than spend all the time programming and debugging a cnc design.

That's the summary of what I've read so far, I don't have a mill, so IDK what is right for sure.

Craigslist is another place to find machines. If going used, its worth it to inspect them 1st. Also, they are insanely heavy, so shipping isn't realistic. The cheaper machines wear out much faster, and you may be buying someones problem that can't do precise work w/ o a lot of reconditioning.

Sucks to have to pay so much, for this type of tools, it seems there is not a smart way around it

Here's a good review of a decent hobby mill, the Sieg X3. Available @ grizzly for ~$1400

I'm leaning towards something like this, good enough for a hobbyist, but not so cheap and crappy to be a headache.

I know the X2's are popular, but seem to have enough pita's to have it worth getting a better machine.

Xmas is around the corner, which one of you guys is going to pony up and buy me one ???

Don't let the title throw you, still good info here- http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24979

Thanks for all the help/info, guys!

I know a lot say to to stay away from the smaller, do-it-all machines, but the following machines seem to be the best in the micro & mini business, so what do you guys think?

$3,695 - Taig DSLS 3000 3-Axis Mini-Mill (with removable 4th Axis Rotary Table)
http://pics.offroadextremes.com/cnc/taig_mill.jpg

$1,768 - SX0 3-Axis Micro-Mill (with optional 4th Axis Rotary Table)
http://pics.offroadextremes.com/cnc/sx0_mill.jpg

I have already had Drafting, AutoCAD, Modeling, Prototyping, Strength-of-Materials (both Civil & Mechanical Engineering in College), and other related trainings...as well as being an accomplished computer guru and quick learner, so I think learning to do things right is just down to time spent on the machine.

As for the kind of parts I want to produce, they span both one-off parts and mass-produced parts, as I have the ultimate dream of designing, developing, producing, and selling upgrade parts, replacement parts, my own design parts, and even full ARTR vehicles (an RTR rock-crawler for instance).

I know it's a big dream, but what's life without dreams and goals? I don't plan on taking over Mike, Robin, FLM, or anything like that...I just want to have my own little niche of nice parts for many vehicles that people like.

All comments & help welcome...except the really negative ones, of course, heh!

On the Taig, looks awesome, but isn't the table a bit small?
"12" X Travel, .... 5.5" Y Travel, ...6" Z Travel."

Just a few thoughts here.
1) What is your available space? Do you think you might move once or twice in the next few years? You can get good used knee mills for the same or less than those Taigs are new, however, you NEED a forklift/stacker to move them around.
2) If CNC is your objective, then go CNC. The software available now is quite easy.
3) If it comes down to money now, get a manual one with DRO (digital readout). Takes the memory issue out of machining......good for us older folks!
Here are a couple that we are looking at for our shop at work:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood...wer-Feed/G9977

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...MITEM=307-3237

I'm personally leaning toward the Enco - I hate changing belts for speed, and the square column tends to be more accurate.
4) Considered buying or better yet, building a CNC Router? This is what I am going to go with. You can do about 90% of RC stuff on a 3 axis Router. Another positive is that you can size it to your needs.
5) When comparing a used unit to new, keep in mind that tooling is extremely expensive. A used system may be worth double to triple asking price if it includes tooling and bits.

Fin; I really can't see me machining anything larger than 12"x5.5"x6"...just small RC parts, so I think that particular size should be enough for now. If I find the machine too small in the future, I can always upgrade.

JT; You have brought up some very good issues! I am not going to move any time soon, as I am in/own the house my Grandparents built, and there is a large shop in the back already filled with equipment (drill presses, routers, band-saw, scroll-saw, grinders, table saw, chop-saw, buffing wheels, tons of hand & power tools, etc.).

I still have some thinking to do, and I appreciate all the input you guys are giving me, so please keep it up!

Looks like our shop is getting a Bridgeport Series 1 that we found in another building. Has DRO, which is good, but from what I've heard the Y has about .007 runout. We can live with that up here - if I need more accurate i can send to our other shops.

I just scored a turn key K2 12"x24" CNC router set up off Craigslist for 1500, with upgraded servos and control box. Came with pc and software too. Now to just get my other projects done so I can play with it!

Nice!

I would steer clear of the HF and similar chinese baby mills - some folks have worked on them enough to make them do OK work, but they are shoddy at best. In the small mill class, the Taig is probably the best bang for the buck - it has a small work envelope and requires frequent adjustment if you do any kind of volume, but for one-offs and prototype work, it flat out beats anything in the price range for accuracy and part quality in stock form - I have owned a re-worked Chinese based mill and a Taig(still own it, though I no longer use it) and the Taig is better without question, though it has its limitations for sure. You can find a new 4 axis cnc Taig on ebay for less than $2k, too - I wouldn't bother with the DSLS system in the Taig. A decent stepper system will work just fine.
That said, if you have a decent shop and some space, bigger is better - I can't ever remember thinking "I wish I had a smaller, less capable machine"! If you are budget restricted, get a taig and get your feet wet - there is a bit of a learning curve with cnc, so keeping the cost down until you get the hang of it(or give up altogether) can be a good thing.