HOW TO: Quark Mod / LSP Conversion *PIC OVERLOAD WARNING*
 

um.. I can't edit the thred title,.. so PICTURE OVERLOAD WARNING

This thread is a full report of my quark thermal mod, and lsp buildup / first runs.

First, here's a list of parts I used to build up my LSP-R

Lightning Stadium Pro-R - HBS66200 - $259.95 - http://tinyurl.com/2vk3c8

HB 22 Degree Front Hub Carriers - HBSC8011-1 - $4.25 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/2692
Hot Bodies Aluminum Front Suspension Holder - HBSC8116-2 - $23.99 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/2760
Hot Bodies Front/Rear Upper Suspension Arm Set - HBSC8005-1 - $5.25 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/2685
Hot Bodies Screw & Ball Front Upper Arms - HBSC8134 - $3.49 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/2886
2x Sportwerks Front/Rear CVD Axles - SWK3177 - $5.99 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5519
Hot Bodies Front Pins for Upper Suspension - HBSC8012 - $2.25 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/2693
OFNA 2.5x17mm Hex Hub Pins - OFN36055 - $3.49 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/3675
Team Losi F/R Drive Shaft: LST - LOSB3502 - $10.49 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5925
Team Losi CV Driveshaft Rebuild Set: LST - LOSB3505 - $5.99 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5928
OFNA 17mm Hard Anodized Wheel Nuts - OFN40550 - $4.25 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/3780
HPI X-Wide Hex Adapter 7.5mm - HPI87534 - $7.75 - http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/8523

Kyosho 46 tooth nylon spur 1/8 diffs - $5.00 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...YOIF148&cat=40
Brushless motor mount - Hot Bodies Lightning Stadium - $40 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...=LSPmotormount
Quark Monster Pro 125B Brushless Sensorless Speed Controller - $280 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...RK_125A&cat=21
Neu 1512 2.5d/f Sensorless Brushless Motor - $225 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...2_2.5df&cat=20
Extermal BEC/UBEC - $37 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=6vubec
Hitec HSC-5955 Titanium Gear High Speed Servo - $115 - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...tec5955tgservo

2x Custom built TrueRC 18.5V 5S1P 4000mAh - $90 - http://home.comcast.net/~truerc/custompack.htm
2x Apache Smart Balancer and Guard 505 - $23.95 - http://www.icare-rc.com/chargers.htm
2x Astroflight 109d Lithium Charger - 109D - $119.95 - http://www.astroflight.com/store/sto...nFHIL0syk7G4I7

Other random parts used:
drill bits, and nuts and bolts, various sizes.
1/16" thick 1"x3' aluminum stock, cut into 4 pieces of equal length
2x heavy duty velcro straps
a Pentium 1 Heatsink with a high CFM fan

I'm using a JR XS3 Tx/Rx, and am also currently running Proline Maxx Mulchers on Ofna MT3 (dominator) rims, or any 1/8 buggy rim/tire.

If you'd like me to post a HIGH resolution picture of any posted here, just let me know, as some of the pictures, you can't make out that much detail.
ok, to get started, here's how I mod'd my quark controller.

OPENING THE QUARK 125B WILL VOID WARRANTY, but cooling is improved, and will most likely solve thermal issues, if you have them.

I broke the side of my case off, but if you do the mod, you should try not to ;)
Here's the controller, with the end cap, and cover removed:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/1.jpg

I found a copper shim that was a little too long, and a little too thin, for a direct replacement, over the stock thermal pads and aluminum shim.
I cut the shim with a dremel to get the right length, and then because it's thinner, I had a friend mill out about 1/2 the thickness of the case, where the capacitors sit.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/2.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/3.jpg

I cleaned the components with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, then used Artic Silver's Arctic Alumina (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_a..._adhesive.htm), I epoxied the shim to the FETs first, and then epoxied the shim/controller to the bottom of the case:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/4.jpg

The controller's PCB isn't perfectly flat, so using two small clamps kept all of the FETs completely flat against the copper shim.
I also had to file down the little nubs, and the bottom of the motor-wire-side end-cap (if that makes sense). Because the entire assembly now sits a little lower than originally, the nubs don't fit into the slots in the side of the case.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/5.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/6.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/7.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/8.jpg

Then the copper shim to the case:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/9.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/10.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/11.jpg

This picture shows how much was milled ouf of the case:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/12.jpg

And then I simply used a bead of the Artic Alumina, to put the side of the case back on.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/13.jpg

That's all there is to the Quark heat mod.

Now to the truck assembly.
The Losi CVD's replace the stock dogbones in the rear, and all 4 corners get the Sportwerks Axles, allowing 17mm hex's.
The buggy arms along with the pins, screw/ball, and aluminum suspension holder fit in place without any modification.

Mike's motor/diff mount is a direct drop in, and can be used in the motor: right-rear setup like advertised, or if you're running two batteries, it will also mount in a motor: front-left setup (I'm doing the front left)

I found a scrap piece of PCB at work, and used it to connect the center diff mounts, to the steering brace. Any material would work for this, metal, plastic, ect. I used two small plastic spacers on the front of the piece, to keep it ~level.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/15.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/14.jpg

I found a good sized heatsink from a Pentium 1 processor, and attached it to the quark with Artic Silver (NON EPOXY), and 2 zip ties.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/16.jpg

After that, I attached the assembly to the PCB strip, with two more zip ties.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/17.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/18.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/19.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/22.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/23.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/24.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/25.jpg

so, two zip ties for heatsink to quark, and two zip ties from quark to chassis. the entire assembly sits below the body posts, so I don't need to worry aobut it scraping. and it is VERY secure to the chassis:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/26.jpg

I put a larger fan on the heatsink, and this is also a good shot of the aluminum suspension holder w/ the buggy arms:
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/31.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/32.jpg

now I don't have step by step pictures of the next steps, as I did from 8am until 12pm noon today (racing started at noon), I stopped to pick up some nuts and bolts on the way to the track lol, and assembled the battery mounts at the track.

I had to move the steering servo back about an inch, to make room for the larger fan on the heatsink, so that was Drill 4 new holes, and I attached the servo mount with some cap screws instead of countersunk, because I simply didn't have the time.

I took the 4 pieces of aluminum angle stock, and cut them to the length of the chassis. Then drilled 2 holes in each piece (one piece on each side of each battery), and drilled the corrosponding holes in the chassis.. Left to the track, and learned that I had picked up the wrong size scews and nuts, so a fellow racer told me to "have at" his toolbox, and I found some countersunk screws w/ matching nuts. We were racing in a parking lot, so that was ok, but countersunk scews won't work with non-countersunk holes, when I decide to take it offroad.
I loosely put the angle stock pieces on, and layed a velcro strap UNDER them, and then tightened them down all the way. this held the batteries very securely, and was very quick to get the packs in and out of the truck.
Originally, I had planned on epoxying nuts to the bottom of the L stock, so The batteries could lay perfectly flat, and not rest on nuts, but I tried a few times, and the epoxy just didn't want to hold. Welding would be a better solution, but I don't have the skill or access to do that at the moment. To keep the batteries off of the nuts that were holding the L stock down, I plan on using some fairly dense foam, under, and on the sides of the batteries. Today, I was in a hurry, so I settled for two pieces of cardboard under each pack. Worked just fine.

So here's some pictures, then I'll tell you my experience :)

In the first two pictures, you can see the corner of the heatsink poking out of the front window. this doesn't bother me at all, as when it flips (and I flipped and slid about 30feet on it's lid today), the body posts, and rear wing, keep the heatsink off the ground. (also note, clear body on race day = RUSHED lol)
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/37.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/38.jpg

http://a4dtm.com/lsp/39.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/40.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/41.jpg
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/42.jpg


ok, so I benched tested the truck last night, and it all seemed in check. I got to the track today, found the right screws and nuts, and put the L stock pieces on, and made sure the batteries were very secure. then, mounted the steering servo, and went into the LHS to get the right steering link. played around in the parkinglot (off the track) for a few minutes, and set it aside to help marshal. When my first heat came up, I went to the side of the track, turned on my TX, and plugged in the two batteries in parallel into the quark (while the quark was turned off). Immediatly, SPARKS shot out of that small gap where the case had been milled down. and burnt electrical smell filled the air.. I unplugged, and tried again. (I know most of you will say "what?! WHY did you plug it in again!?", but the controller's warranty has already been voided, so it was either already burned up, going to burn up, or run like normal) Luckily, for me, it didn't spark a second time, and when I turned it on, that pretty little jingle assured me that it wasn't completely toast. Applied some throttle, and the wheels spun. I got it out on the track, and the controller never hicupped once. I made it about 3 minutes into the 5min race, when I lost power. Took the truck off the track, and noticed the spur was about 1/2 stripped, and the pinion was just floating. The motor had moved i don't know.. 1/2 of a millimeter. I'm running a 44t diff gear at the moment (Just ordered two 46t gears as replacements) and had 14t pinion on it at the time. The motor mounting holes in the motor mount wouldn't allow the pinion to perfectly mesh with the diff, only about 2/3 on. since the diff's teeth were now about 1/2 height, I had no choice, but to put a 16t pinion on, and try again.. With the harder gearing, I decided I to put a set of 1/8 buggy tires on it, to try and keep the temps in check.
Second race, never got it rolling.. Off the line, veered hard right, and I brought it over to the edge of the track, to discover a missing rolling pin in the right rear CVD. Another quick stop inside the LHS and I had 4wd again, but missed out on the second heat completely.
Third heat. I made it about 3 corners, when I lost steering. The servo horn screw had loosen (how!?), and the horn was just sitting above the servo's output shaft. Tightened that, and put it back on the track w/ about 4 min left in the race. I made it till about 30 seconds left in the race, when I lost a left rear CVD rolling pin.
took it off the track, and had someone temp it, and motor, and controller were both ~135 degrees F.
I did NOT have fans on the motor or controller today, as I didn't have time to solder them up, so I can understand the high Quark temps, sort of, but the Neu was hotter than I'd ever like to run a motor again.. it was about 80-85 degrees today, and humid.. only adding to the problem. BrianG also mentioned that when I sparked the controller, I could have lost multiple FETs, and that could be another reason for the controller running so hot. But I didn't have any thermals. and then again, I never got to run it for more than 5 min at a time..

Overall, I'm EXTREMELY happy with the performance, but it IS running too hot for me, even without fans, I wasn't expecting those temps and after only 3-5 min of hard running.. So, I'm going to get a 1515, and see if that will keep the temps down, and let me run my 16t pinion as a "cool" setup, and go up, if I want more speed out of it.
By the way, I think my biggest problem (aside from the fact that I havn't done any racing of any kind since the first year I was in this hobby, with my STOCK RTR Rustler say about 8 years ago..), was TRACTION. I was in the negative on the traction-o-meter. Down the back straight, was the only place I could keep this thing in some sort of "racing line".
We'll see what happens next weekend. I'll most likely have the same setup, but I'll have time to prep the truck, and get fans on the motor and controller.
oh, and I'd say I put about 20 minutes of runtime in the truck all together today, got home, and re-charged the packs, and they took 1.836Ah. so I'm looking at 40-45 minutes of runtime, just like I had expected.

Here's a short video of my second race. My sister had stopped by, and I asked her to video it.. bad video, and completely sun-washed, but it's something.. I'll probably get more video tommorow night.. My truck's the one w/ buggy tires, and clear body. go easy on my driving style.. I'm a much better basher than racer at this point.
http://a4dtm.com/lsp/race.mov ~10mb

Cool video. Too bad about the problems you were encountering, but glad that you like the truck overall. I have heard its a beast at racing. :027:

Hopefully the next time you race, you will be able to finish the whole race... good luck!!

Was the whole track asphault? Any jumps? Looked like a fun time drifting. :027:

all blacktop.. in the third heat for the MTs, they brought out a wooden ramp and put on the track.. a 1' high ramp at a ~40 degree angle, and a 10' run-up, I launched my truck about 4' high, and it didn't land pretty lol

Whow, sounds crazy man. Why did you mill the section out of the case? Why did you break the side off too? You didn't have to rape the poor Quark. :005:

That really sounds bad that sparks came from the Quark when you first hooked it up... sounds like you shorted something out? I honestly can't think of anything that the Alumina would have done it, that's weird.

Oh, and about the humidity making things worse as far as heat, it would have no affect on it. Humidity is simply a 'feel', just an illusion of being hotter. You can't evaporate your sweet, so you don't cool off. You don't see your electronics sweeting now do you? :032: :005:

Again, that sucks to hear about your Quark almost frying, but it's good that it's still working! :027:

well the humidity annoyed me, and that's enough for me to mention it :)

the shim I have is thinner than the stock aluminum shim + heat pads. if I didn't mill that out, the caps would hit the case, before the FETs.. if I hadn't trimmed the edges of the case, they would have "locked" into the channel's in the case, and the copper shim wouldn't have touched the bottom of the case at all. can tell it's lower in the case, by the feel of the button as well.. pressing the button in to what would normally supress the button, is only touching the button now. I have to press in twice as far as before.

What makes me wonder about the Quark, is I had run it for about a minute at up to say 1/4 throttle on my bench last night.. and ran it for about 5 minutes in the parkinglot, before racing started, and it worked fine.. turned it off, unplugged it. then when I went to plug it in to race, the sparks and smells.. Makes me wonder if it was just a freak accident, that would have happened even if I hadn't done any mods on the controller.. just a component, that finally decided to fail? odd that it happened when I plugged the pack in too.. wasn't an overheating issue..

but, one question I'm extremely confused about..
I ran today, and had no problems as far as batteries.. I've only run these packs in parallel. I usually charge the packs till they peak, then balance them, then run em in parallel.. rinse repeat.
I charged one pack, and it was 42min, and 1.836Ah in.
The second pack just finished, and it took 1 hour, 20min, and 3.336Ah in..

I have no idea why these are soo off.. the only time I havn't run them in parallel, is for programing the controller. I'll try and find a DMM at work tommorow, and check the voltages again. both packs peaked with 21V. if both packs are at 21V, they should both be fully charged correct? any other way to check if everything's in check? charging was at 4amps on both packs.

Where is that track? They actually race monster trucks on asphult? I've never seen that, but it looked like fun. My favorite part was when the turn marshall though you were flamed out.:005: Happens to me all the time too. I normally just blip the throttle and they figure it out. I had one moron that picked it up and then held it by the wheel so I couldnt touch the trottle without risking injury to him. He carried it all the way back to the pits and then set it down and then I took off again. You should have seen his face when I took off. He almost shit his pants.:005:


About the Quark sparks: I'm wondering if with all of the cracks in the case and cutting you did if something like a little aluminum chip or something wasnt loose in there and shorted something out. Could have shorted accross the battery input leads and just disitigrated. My suspision is though that brian is probably right. Its running, but not at its full potential and you may have future problems. I certainly hope thats not the case though.

So what made you want to do that cooling mod? Did you try it and have some sort of heat problem with just using the heatsink. I wouldnt think that racing on asphault would be that hard on the esc. No hills and very little rolling resistance.

Sweet conversion. I love the fact that you got it done in the nick of time.

first thoughts....

1. 135* after a run (even just 4 minutes) isn't that bad under race conditions on a warm day. I've seen my motor temp under 120 after a 30 min race but that was on a cold track. (50-60*?)

2. The packs should take very close to the same charge if they are paralleled the whole time. I would keep them hooked in parallel all the time... only separate them for charging. Don't know why/how they would be off that much... are you sure the charge wasn't interupted and restarted on the one pack or something?

Also... the 1836mah doesn't add up for 20 min of running. It's not right... can't be.

3336mah does sound about right... and even that is very efficient... under 170mah per minute. That's just a bit less than the best I saw when I raced my 8ight at that indoor track a while back.

It's a bit odd seeing Truggies slide around on asphalt like that. I dunno, it just seems a little redneck to me...the whole concept of racing off-road vehicles on flat semi-slick ground.

Good looking conversion though. I hope to get my LSP-R running soon too...if I can only find the time.

That's at HobbyTown USA in Crystal Lake. They don't have a real track, so they do parkinglot racing every sunday.. fun all the same, and even had a jump on the track for the third heat lol.
I cleaned all the parts before assembling the Quark, so there would be .01% chance that a metal shaving caused the spark =\.
I did the mod because I know people have been heating their quarks quite a bit, and since I was running a 1512, and couldn't gear up anymore, AND, I run very hard, I figured I might as well do the mod, while I wait for the motor mount, and assemble the truck. I did the quark mod in my spare time. Just preparing for hot temps.


I'm still confused about the batteries.. I DMM'd the packs at work, and both were 21v. While charging, I had stopped one pack, about half way through, but wrote down the data, and added the two totals. and that was the pack that took 1hour and 20min.. I was monitoring the packs the whole time, and the pack that only charged for ~45min did it's cycle exactly as it should. but didn't put nearly as much back into the pack to peak it at 21v..
I'm gonna try and run the truck again for about 10-15min, and then recharge both packs again, and see what the stats are.


Reffer to my reply to jhautz. Also, HobbyTown USA, may have a new track close by.. (in Huntley for anyone in my area), very large offroad track, that two people have been working on.. there's pictures of the new track, taken last fall, here:
http://www.chitownrc.com/showthread.php?t=5226&page=3 (scroll down 1/2 way)



Also, I ran the truck for about 2min after work today, and had a radio glitch, and hit my works mailbox at about 35mph. completely shattered the rear hub carrier, but no other damage at all.. took a chunk out of the mailbox post too.. that's a felony right? :(
note to self: turn off "race mode" before I run the truck again lol.

Thats funny.... I'm eagerly awaiting the opening of that trak too. I guess I'll see you out there if/when it opens.:027:

The pics don't like me... :(

what do you mean? can you ping http://a4dtm.com ?